Table of Contents Forums Dictionary Recommended Reading Marketplace Giftshop What I Ate Michael's Blog
Thermoworks Thanksgiving Thermometer Giveaway!
Click here to find out how to enter.
Latest Post on Michael's Blog: Fixing SONOS "Unable to play" song / "Unable to connect" to local music library problem on Windows 7
Equipment & Gear

NSF Certification

by Michael Chu
Normal view
Next »
« Prev
Based in the United States, the NSF International provides certification of products around the world that meet their standards for consumer safety. Contrary to what some salesmen may tell you, NSF is not a government entity, but an independent, non-profit organization. What does the NSF seal mean, who finds it important, and should home chef's be concerned if their cookware isn't NSF certified?

Who is NSF?
NSF International is often confused with the government organization NSF (National Science Foundation), but the two are not related or affiliated in any way. NSF International is a non-profit company founded to increase public health and safety. Formerly called the National Safety Foundation, NSF International changed their name as the company began collaborating with the World Health Organization (WHO) more and more.

The NSF mark
NSF has developed standards and testing practices for a variety of products and services ranging from bottled water to swimming pool equipment. In many of these cases the standards are simply an application of existing FDA (Food and Drug Administration) requirements. For example, NSF's Food Service Disposable Glove Certification ensures that gloves carrying the seal are made with FDA approved materials, do not leak, and are manufactured in a clean and controlled environment. In this example, the FDA does not have specific standards set for disposable gloves for food service use (they have standards for medical use), but they do have standards for materials for use in food preparation. The NSF certification ensures that a third party has authenticated the product as meeting those standards.

However, many products do not carry the NSF mark. Are these products that have failed NSF certification and are less safe than products that carry the mark? Not necessarily. NSF certification is a voluntary process and NSF International charges a fee to the manufacturer to have the product certified. Many products are manufactured that meet or exceed the NSF safety standards but are not inspected or certified by NSF.

To find out if a product has been NSF certified, go to http://www.nsf.org/Certified/Food/

Does NSF certification matter?
In most cases, if you are not a food service professional, NSF certified products are not an issue. For the home or amateur chef, product performance and quality are of higher importance than the guarantee of product safety since almost all major brands of cookware and kitchen equipment self-regulate and maintain at least the minimum level of safety standards in their choice of materials and manufacturing processes.

For the professional kitchen, NSF certification is very important. For many restaurants, the use of NSF certified products is a necessity to show the company has done their job in protecting their customers by selecting products known and tested to be safe. Supermarkets butcher their meats with NSF certified equipment and fast food chains cook with tool bearing the NSF mark to protect themselves as much as their customers.

Do you need NSF certified kitchen equipment?
In general, it doesn't hurt to have tools bearing the NSF mark, but I wouldn't use it as a deciding factor when purchasing gear for your kitchen. Recently a salesman we saw at Costco pushing Cook's Warehouse's Ameriware Professional cookware and claimed that the Ameriware pans were "more durable and safer because they are government certified for professional kitchens which is why Ameriware can claim their cookware to be Professional". (While saying this, the salesman flipped the pan over and showed the NSF mark etched into the bottom of the aluminum pan.) The salesman then went on to use the certification as one of the reasons why the pan's high price was justifiable as professional cookware is expensive. (That last statement is usually not true. Cookware designed for the professional kitchen is often cheaper than those designed for the home because they are replaced on at regular intervals. For example, Vollrath, a reputable restaurant equipment manufacturer who happens to manufacture Ameriware for Cook's Warehouse, makes a 12 in. non-stick aluminum pan that can be bought from a restaurant supply store for $25 while the comparable Ameriware pan was over $80 with the "show discount". Of course, the Ameriware pan has a space age titanium-ceramic non-stick surface... but no one has given me the opportunity to test a traditional non-stick against the Ameriware non-stick, yet.)

The only time I look specifically for the NSF mark is when purchasing a product (like a plastic cutting board) from a company that I have never heard of. In those cases, I can't "trust" the company (since I know nothing about them), and find some assurance from the NSF certification.
Next »
« Prev
Written by Michael Chu
Published on December 29, 2004 at 04:59 PM
138 comments on NSF Certification:(Post a comment)

On August 09, 2005 at 04:04 AM, chronicler (guest) said...
The Costco cookware purveyor falls into the Anthony Bourdain's description of the two biggest hoaxes to the American buying public. One is expensive knives from Germany and the other specialty cookware. Bourdain suggests we all go to the nearest restauirant supply house and purchase what we need and forget the fancy name brand stuff.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:05 AM, Ben FrantzDale (guest) said...
I completely agree. I found my local resturant supply place in West LA, Surfas, and havn't looked back. (OK, I looked back once to get a 12" All-Clad frypan, but that's it.)


On August 09, 2005 at 04:05 AM, Jay (guest) said...
I bought 2 Ameriware fry pans at Costco. I was skeptical about spending that much money.
I use fry pans as a test of quality cookware. One reason is I use fry pans 80% of the time.
I have bought Circulon, Faberware, Restaurant Supply pans plus many others.
I Have had this pan 3 months. use it 2 to 3 times a day.
I will say Ameriware is the best fry pan I have ever bought.
I can fry an egg put cheese on it turn it over with cheese on bottom till it melts then turn it over on plate without sticking. Try that with any of the others and you will get a mess.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:06 AM, an anonymous reader said...
I like Carlisle Dura-Ware aluminum fry pans, both stainless lined and nonstick. NSF approved. Nicely made and the price is right.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:06 AM, an anonymous reader said...
NSF Standards have been around since the 50’s. The idea being, if the product meets the NSF Standards, then if will be readily accepted food service use in all of the U.S.-North America with no hesitation. Though voluntary, the majority or the US and large buyers mandate the NSF Mark on products.

Before NSF (National Sanitation Foundation), Food Equipment was scrutinized by hundreds of different municipalities and state governments, all with different ideas on what was and was not acceptable for commercial use. The NSF took care of the inconsistency by bringing together all the health departments, government, manufacturers, buyers, interested parties etc. No health department will ever give you grief on NSF Certified equipment if it is being used properly.

The NSF looks at products using standards developed and written by the industry and NSF participants. They look at cookware (as well as all types of products) to be sure the materials are non-toxic, do not leach, color, odor, harmful substances into the foods they will come into contact with, meet design requirements (food safety), and are easily cleanable (sanitation).

This is important to me both for residential use and commercial use, especially with all the products coming from Asia. Large consumer retailers are also looking to the NSF for help (Sam’s, Williams Sonoma, Costco). Many Asian countries have a very lax attitude towards plastics and coatings used in products they sell. They also have a way of disappearing during times of serious inquire. The NSF has a very good web site that displays all the commercial and consumer products they challenge and certify at www.nsf.org.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:07 AM, Andrew T. (guest) said...
I would imagine that Vollrath -- the manufacturer of Ameriware -- uses a ceramic-titanium foundation under a PTFE (aka Teflon) coating for their Ameriware line, similar to Scanpan. (This is difficult to confirm, as there is very little info on Ameriware available, either on the internet or in the manual which comes with the cookware.) The foundation allows for using less PTFE, and also causes the PTFE to stick much better to the pan -- which is why Scanpan (and Ameriware, I'd imagine) assert that their pans are safe to use with metal utensils. However, if this is the case, you are not cooking on the ceramic-titanium, but on PTFE/Teflon. Any claims to the contrary are disingenuous sales ploys.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:07 AM, an anonymous reader said...
I have found that some nsf to be very good. I have bought several brands for my small kitchen.In cooking school, all the gear we used was new and NSF.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:08 AM, an anonymous reader said...
I bought the Ameriware yesterday at Costco on the basis that the salesman claim of no Teflon on the pan was true. Based on what I have read here, that is a false statement. The salesman also claimed that Teflon is a dangerous coating as shown in a number of recent medical studies and that it should not be used. The Ceramic-Titanium claimed by the salesmen appears to be just an underlayment on the pan while the non stick surface is strill Teflon.

A scam and fraud!!


On August 09, 2005 at 04:08 AM, Michael Chu said...
re: scam?

Well, I wouldn't rush to label Ameriware as a scam. Sometimes it's difficult to trust what the demonstrators at shows or Costco are saying because they might not understand the details on what makes their products unique (same goes for Cutco salespeople), but that doesn't necessarily mean the product is a scam.

It is probably true that the Ameriware pans do not use Teflon because they probably use a generic PTFE instead (Teflon is a brand). Or, maybe they don't use PTFE at all. We don't know and the Ameriware people haven't called me back.

Also, Teflon has been established as safe by the U.S. government and numerous studies have shown it to pass through the human body with little effect - but some animals may be sensitive to the fumes from a severely overheated pan (birds are particularly sensitive to fumes from overheatd pans - teflon or not, as well as most aerosols, etc.). Nevertheless, I don't recommend cooking on a pan with it's nonstick layer chipping off.

I am curious to find out how well your Ameriware cookware holds up over usage for the next several months (and if the non-stick ability deteriorates over time).


On August 09, 2005 at 04:08 AM, Mrs. Stephenson (guest) said...
I bought the Ameriware set at Costco recently myself. I can be kinda rough with my pots and pans. Tonight I made the mistake of leaving a pot on with very little water in it and ended up burning the pan. Normally I would throw it out because it was compeletely ruined. Tonight I decided to take a different approach. I let it cool and then washed it out with a little soap and water with a soft dish cloth. It came completely clean and there was NO sign that it had ever been burnt. I thought I was happy with my Ameriware cookware before, now I am absolutely AMAZED.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:09 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Well I just returned from Costco and I was 'sold' by the pot hawker and shucker, or was I? I have needed a good set of pots for a long time. This appeared to be a good deal and 'impulse' got the better of me...well not exactly true.

When I buy something at Costco, I don't have to care about whether it's the best buy or the best quality product, at least I don't have to care up front, before making the purchase. I can determine that over the next months (or years). The point is: Costco backs their products like NO OTHER RETAILER in the world! If you dont like it...take it back for a full refund...NO QUESTIONS asked.
The truth is that Ameriware warranties its cookware against defects for 25 years. I know that Costco will take this product back during the period of this warranty. It's simple...at Costco, buy it when you see it, if you like it, because tomorrow it may not be there. If it turns out, you dont like it, or you feel that you have 'sold' by a Costco hawker/shucker....RETURN IT TO COSTCO and remind yourself to grow a backbone before going shopping next time...and then be glad that you made your Ameriware purchase at Costco.
I will update this message board over the next months to critique the Ameriware product....but as you already know, I am not worried that I wont like it...either I have made an excellent purchase of quality cookware...or Costco gets another of my purchases returned to them. DPY


On August 09, 2005 at 04:09 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Any updates on whether the Ameriware cookware contains any PTFE? I'm curious as I just purchased the set from Costco, and my husband (who's an engineer) gave me the third degree about the no Teflon claim... also, since it's now been some months since you purchased your pots Michael, I'm wondering how you've found them to perform. Thanks.


On August 09, 2005 at 04:10 AM, Michael Chu said...
re: PTFE

I've been unsuccessful in finding out if any PTFE is used in Ameriware as the company does not return my calls.

re: pots & pans performance

I didn't buy the Ameriware.


On August 10, 2005 at 08:13 PM, Heather Constable (guest) said...
Subject: Check out what the Better Business Burea has to say
I was an eager observer of an Ameriware demonstration done yesterday at my local Costco (Grand Rapids, MI). I was impressed as I watched Saran Wrap, melted against the side of a hot sauté pan, be whisked cleanly away by the Ameriware demonstrator. My eyes widened as burned cheddar cheese was wiped easily from the bottom of a saucepan with a wimpy paper towel. For twenty minutes the demonstrator held me a willing captive, and captivated I was! So eager was I to purchase the "special buy in partnership with Costco”— so sold was I on the fact that I would experience a "savings of at least $300"— that I whined loudly and stomped my foot belligerently, right then and there, when my husband staunchly refused to buy the cookware until I had researched it thoroughly (rotten engineer! He makes my whimsies so... planned!).

Hence, today we researched. We visited the websites the Ameriware demonstrator told us to look at, and then we scoured for other informative Internet postings (which is how I found this bulletin board). I remained positive about the cookware. My husband
(despicable engineer! He turns my trusting nature more cynical day by day as he forces me to weigh things not with my heart, but with my mind) persisted with his search long after I had made up my mind that I would be getting the "fantastic deal" the Ameriware demonstrator had assured me I would be.

Thirty minutes after I hung up from another session of "if I whine long and loudly, eventually he'll give in", my husband called back. "Check out what the Better Business Burea has to say", says he (maddening engineer! Has he quashed another fragile hope— that there's an honest salesman yet to be found, and a cookware set that will stand the test of time?) I am alarmed by the smugness with which he speaks this line.

So, to www.bbb.org I go. I look up Ameriware. I am again impressed... but this time by my seemingly limitless gullibility. The impartial website the Ameriware demonstrator told me to look at (www.onlinecookery.com)? OWNED BY AMERIWARE! The “Cook’s Warehouse” that the demonstrator heralded as “the preferred vendor of Ameriware products”? It’s not a vendor— IT’S AMERIWARE! It’s like General Motors Corporation selling vehicles under different names: Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac. Call it what you like, it’s still from GMC. You can buy a real beauty from a Saturn dealership, but under all the marketing, logos, slogans and incentives, you’re buying GMC.

“But wait, there’s MORE!” I accepted as truth the claim the demonstrator made that “Ameriware has been in business since 1874”. Surely, a company with that much history will be around if my saucepan peters out before the 25-year warranty expires! And of course I can trust that I can easily return my petered-out product to Ameriware for a “cheerful replacement or refund”. Not so, says the Better Business Bureau. First, Ameriware has only been in business since 1978 (a full century LESS than claimed by not only the demonstrator, but Ameriware’s own literature and eye-catching site logo!) Furthermore, according to the Better Business Bureau, Ameriware cookware does indeed peter out, and is not so very cheerfully replaced or refunded.

No research into Ameriware’s claims could be complete without also researching Vollrath, the company that actually manufactures the cookware products Ameriware, “in partnership with Costco”, offers at such a significant savings. Vollrath? An excellent company, according to the Better Business Bureau. The hitch? You’re not buying from Vollrath— you’re buying from Ameriware. Vollrath may very well take excellent care of its customers (i.e., Ameriware, and others), but it’s not Vollrath that’s guaranteeing the product. Vollrath manufactures the cookware to customer specification, but that’s the extent of their involvement with the cookware where you, the buyer, are concerned. But who’s to say, even though Vollrath is a reputable company, if Ameriware’s specifications are “up to snuff” when it comes to the quality and longevity of the product? That’s really an individual determination, and in the end, boils down to the opinion of the consumer.

My opinion is this: I’m glad my husband is a rotten, despicable, maddening… savvy, suspicious, and educated… engineer and consumer. I’m equally glad I didn’t spend $400 for cookware that might not have lived up to my expectations. Am I convinced that Ameriware’s products are garbage? No. They may be just as good as anything else out there. They may even be better. But are they worth the inflated cost? I don’t think so. Additionally, I’m big on integrity. If a company will resort to outright lies and theatrical displays in an attempt to separate me from my hard-earned cash, I’m simply not interested in what they have to peddle, no matter how much I may want it or how good it may be. And in the greater scheme of things, if they stoop so low to lay hold of my dollar, I highly doubt they’ll be upstanding enough to give my dollar back should I be dissatisfied with my product somewhere down the road. Call me stubborn, call me stupid, call me strange – I’d rather buy a $20 pan that I’ll need to replace every five years from an upstanding company than buy a $100 pan that will last me four times as long from a company of ill-repute. And try the math. Either way - $20 a pop five times in twenty years or a single $100 pop in twenty years – you end up in the very same place.

So there’s what I know for what it’s worth. But don’t just take my word for it— if there’s something I relearned today, it’s to not take ANYBODY’S “word for it”. Visit bbb.org for yourself, and like me, become an educated consumer.


On August 10, 2005 at 11:02 PM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: Check out what the Better Business Bureau has to say
Excellent research Heather! (And well written, I enjoyed reading your comments.) I had similar concerns about the company, but did not look them up at Better Business Bureau. It seems pretty apparent to me that Cooks Warehouse is Ameriware since they have the same address/telephone (I can't remember where I found their address because it doesn't seem to be on their website and the site is kind of sketchy). I think Cook's Warehouse (the Ameriware one ( http://www.onlinecookery.com ), not the one in Atlanta, Georgia ( http://www.cookswarehouse.com )) is there just to show the "full" price of the products.

I had a bad feeling about how Ameriware seemed to do business and when I called them and they never returned my calls, I kind of just sighed and shook my head. Maybe they have a decent product - it certainly seems to work at Costco, but they just don't seem to be running the kind of business that I want to be handing over that much money to. I plan to try to talk to them at the next Home Show that runs through my region, but who knows if I'll be able to (the demonstrators seem to only know what they are told to say, though).

Many of the claims made by the Ameriware representatives are similar to those made by Danish company Scanpan (US website is a little less informative and is located at http://www.scanpan.com ). I have performed the same "tests" that the Ameriware rep. performed on the Ameriware on my 9-1/4 inch fry pan. It is similarly priced (if not slightly lower priced for that size) at $40 but Scanpan has a much better reputation. So far, I have to say the pan is impressive - it still releases cleanly and amazingly when compared to other nonstick brands (I've only had it since January - I'm planning too keep using it and see how it performs next January and do a write up). I've have other brands which release really well, but after a month or two become so-so non-stick. The Scanpan has continued to clean up well, release marvelously, and has yet to show any indication of a scuff mark. (Since I paid for the pan, I couldn't bring myself to use metal utensils on it all the time - although I have on occassion used a fork and twice used metal tongs because I was in a rush - still no marks). My other non-sticks all have scuff marks and don't release perfectly anymore even though I only use silicone spatulas, plastic tongs, and wood (which is my tool of choice) and never metal.

Heather Constable wrote:
Call me stubborn, call me stupid, call me strange – I’d rather buy a $20 pan that I’ll need to replace every five years from an upstanding company than buy a $100 pan that will last me four times as long from a company of ill-repute. And try the math. Either way - $20 a pop five times in twenty years or a single $100 pop in twenty years – you end up in the very same place.

If you factor in time-value of money, the $20 five times over twenty years is less money than an upfront $100...


On August 10, 2005 at 11:48 PM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: Check out what the Better Business Bureau has to say
Heather Constable wrote:
So, to www.bbb.org I go. I look up Ameriware. I am again impressed... but this time by my seemingly limitless gullibility.

Hmmm... I was unable to find any information on www.bbb.org concerning Ameriware. Am I typing in the wrong company name? I tried Ameriware, Cook's Warehouse (brought up a local store in San Francisco), www.onlinecookery.com (in the url field), and couldn't come up with any results...


On August 11, 2005 at 12:29 AM, Heather Constable (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware, AKA "Ameri-Warehouse"
Straight from the BBB website (if anyone reading is unfamiliar with business-world lingo, "DBA" in the first line stands for "Doing Business As".

DBA: Ameri-Warehouse
» Other
Address: 2504 North Ontario Street
Burbank, CA 91504 » Other
Primary Phone: (818) 556-2740 » Other
Primary Fax: (818) 556-2746 » Other
Primary Contact: Howard Teichman, Senior Vice President » Other
E-mail Address:

Website:

Company ID: 13013596
Business Start Date: 1/1/1978
BBB Created Record on: 5/2/1995

Nature of Business:

This company's business is sells cookware at homeshows, state and county fairs, military bases and Costco.


From Heather: Following is the direct link to the information I reviewed.

http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13013596&hAKAID=1&hAddrID=1

To start from square one, type "Cook's Warehouse" (without the quotes, and no , Inc.). The BBB database returns two results, the first of which is the link to the BBB's information concerning Ameriware/Cook's Warehouse/Ameri-Warehouse.


On August 11, 2005 at 01:37 AM, Michael Chu said...
Ah, I see. I didn't realize that Ameri-Warehouse was the same as Ameriware but the address and phone number is the same as the one I've got.


On August 11, 2005 at 12:26 PM, Heather Constable (guest) said...
And imagine - with three operating names, one of which the BBB doesn't have listed as an alias (Ameriware) - how difficult it would be for the "Average Joe" to file a complaint. If one simply looks up "Ameriware",
the BBB database returns a solitary result for "Ameri-Warehouse", and unless one cross-references and digs deeper, it's not readily apparent just who Ameriware is.

My brother is an attorney and when I once was considering employment with a small (two person) company that provided only a P.O. box for the business address, he warned: "If anyone goes to even moderate lengths to obscure their identity or whereabouts and intentionally make themselves difficult to find, it's not someone you want to be involved with".

I have a feeling his words are applicable in this instance, as well.


On August 19, 2005 at 12:10 AM, daisy (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware
just want to know how the ameriware cookware holds up and if anyone has had to return them


On August 19, 2005 at 11:28 PM, Jake (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Professional Cookware
I just received an email response from the Ameriware customer support. He said that Vollrath has been making cookware since 1874. He said that their parent company is Cook's Warehouse, Inc. and has been in business since 1978. He said that all nonsticks have some PTFE in it and the Ameriware nonstick is a three layered nonstick surface with ceramic and Titanium. He claims that the product is ten times tougher than any other nonstick on the market today. Like all products, it depends on the care you give it. Then he concludes that you have the Vollrath 25 year warranty and Costco guarantee. I would conclude that I should keep my Costco receipt just in case!

I have experimented with the egg swished around the frying pan to get a thin layer that can be blown off. That trick works with two of our older teflon pans; however, it does not stick and fry more than a quarter inch above the bottom, so the cheaper pans probably are not hot enough above the bottom. The experiment did not work with my Circulon pot - the thin egg stuck in the narrow grooves and had to be pulled out by hand.


On September 09, 2005 at 09:30 PM, Swebeck (guest) said...
Subject: scanpans hold up great
Hi all,

I just read on the scanpan website (http://www.scanpancookware.com/staticpages/sp/teflon) that their products do contain PTFE. I have a 12 inch scanpan frypan that I use frequently, especially to make crepes. It's a wonderful pan for this purpose as it releases well, but it also has some "tooth" to hold the batter in place as I tilt the pan. It also distributes heat beautifully, NO hotspots, AND I have consistently used metal utensils. After at least two years, it still works as well as the day I bought it.

I am so pleased with the perfomance of this pan that I went to the scanpan website with the intention of purchasing several more of their products; that's when I first saw the reference to PTFE. I had been under the impression that these pans were free of the potential toxic effects of PTFE. I believe that I was mislead when I purchased my pan two or three years ago -- I recall being told that the pan was made of a "ceramic/titanium blend as used on the space shuttle to reduce friction" . . .

I'm no engineer, but I was aware of the potential toxic effects of PTFE when I purchased this pan, and I did a reasonable amount of research. I did not contact the company and ask them directly if their product contained PTFE prior to purchasing the pan, but all indications were that it did not.

If you want to purchase nonstick cookware, I can highly recomend the scanpan. I shall continue to use it for situations that really need a nonstick surface, such as making crepes (in case you are wondering, I eat a inordinate amount of crepes because I have a wheat gluten allergy, and have found crepes to be one of the best ways to use odd flours such as barley, rice. or garbonzo. )

But, I shall continue to use my stainless steel and well seasoned cast iron for other purposes, to avoid the potential toxic effects of PTFE, both to me and to the environment. BTW, I'd rather spend $80 on a pan that works well than buy four pans for $20. Less waste, less time shopping - factor that into your cost analysis -- and the product tends to be better in other respects, such as better heat distribution resulting in a lack of hotspots.

Regards all. Hope my two cents helps.


On September 20, 2005 at 05:42 AM, Ralph l. Emerson (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
Ameriware is made by Vollrath of Sheboygan, Wi. and the PTFE coating is put on by Whitford Coatings of Frazer, Pa.


On October 02, 2005 at 02:47 PM, Tobi (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
Thanks to all for your research and comments. I've been looking at this cookware set at Costco for the last 2 years and have watched several demonstrations and have ooo'd and aaa'd over them as well.

I've been looking for a decent set of pans for the last 5 years and this is the only set that I would have bought on impulse, but my penny-pinching ways stopped me. The next show in my area is Oct 28th and I am finally going to 'rush out' and buy it!

They may be a little overpriced, but in the long run, all the time it takes for me to research and decide on what I would like to use is worth the initial purchase of $100 rather than buying the same pan over and over again.

Another point, if I find something I like and it wears out over time, by the time I get around to replacing it, I can't find it! If it's tried and true, I want the same pan, I'm very picky and will be upset that I can't replace it with the same product!

Anyway, that's my two cents for all that is it worth!

I will let you know in a few months how I like my new pans!

Thx, Tobi


On October 06, 2005 at 04:48 PM, an anonymous reader said...
I have owned one of the professional series pans I bought from Costco for a year or so. It holds up really well to abuse that used to kill other pans. Metal utensils can be used in it without destroying the coating, just as advertised. I have used it every day at least twice a day, and many times more than that. With that level of use, it is stucturally sound. I have fried, baked and even lightly broiled. I have loved using this pan.

That said, the reason I am on this site posting is because I Googled up Ameriware to contact the company with a complaint. The nonstick surface is no longer non-stick and is now just sticky-but-easy-to-clean surface. I am going to ask them for a partial refund or a refurb. If need be, I will take it back to Costco for a full refund.


On October 14, 2005 at 07:14 PM, OTazMan (guest) said...
Subject: Rpeat after me Stainless Steel
If we are talking about safety the guaranteed safest cookware on the planet is Stainless Steel! I gave up on Aluminum / non stick pans 6 years ago and haven't looked back since. Kitchen Craft 100% American made stainless steel with a lifetime guarantee. It took me a year to learn how to cook with stainless steel turning the heat down is the first rule but it is safe with no leaching of the metal or non stick surface. I can't believe anyone would even think of buying a pan where you can't figure out what the non stick service is. I don't care if PTFE is used or not if it has a coating it is going to come off. No one has brought up this little gem either the Ameriware product is made up of a ceramic-titanium product. Has there been any studies on how hard this combination is, does it leach or bleed through the non stick surface? Titanium is of course very hard but with the introduction of ceramics all bets are off. Titanium is a heavy metal and in a dust form it is extremely poisonous.

Watch FoodTV if the chef is not being sponsored by a company what do they use for cooking? Standard old Stainless Steel!


On October 24, 2005 at 04:13 PM, Connie (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I bought an Ameriware 12 inch fry pan last year at Costco. I wanted to see if it really did work like the man said it did. And I have had no problem since. Food doesn't stick, and everything cooks evenly. The Ameriware company is back at my Costco, so I bought the whole set. It works great, a lot better then Circulon, Caphalon and those other products at the mall. Which I have tried in the past, and would not buy again! I'm hooked on Ameriware!


On October 26, 2005 at 05:02 PM, RickHan (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I've watched the Ameriware demo at Costco several times. It is impressive.
But the lack of info about the Ameriware products is a bit suspect.
Costco will take defective items back, even without a receipt if you have all the parts and documentation that came with it.

Has anyone cooked with gas at higher temperatures with Ameriware? Or with any other brand of non-stick?
I do a lot of stir frys, which don't work well at medium heat.

Also, the cookware seems pretty functional. The vented lids are a nice touch.


On October 27, 2005 at 11:04 PM, Larry (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
Key point to remember about this cookware set is that it is backed 100% by COSTCO. They would not allow Ameriware to demo their products in their stores if COSTCO was not satisified that they were a reputable company.

Need to ask yourself this question: If I trust COSTCO enough to pay them $45 or $100 to become a member, why would I doubt them about these pot and pans?

In this case, you are buying from COSTCO, not Ameriware.

As for me, I'm going down to COSTCO tonight and buy a set for my wife. If it turns out she doesn't like them or they don't live up to her expectations for performance or quality, I'll simply return them to COSTCO. That is one of the key benefits of becoming a warehouse club member; 100% satisfaction guarantee.


On October 29, 2005 at 10:26 AM, Michael Lee said...
Subject: Ameriware
Thanks to Ralph Emerson for leads on the cookware coating. I checked out Whitford. The coating used apparently is Eclipse, a 3 layer coating that uses ceramic. The info on the ceramic is hard to find, but can be located in a pdf file using a Google search on "Whitford Ameriware". Contrary to the Ameriware hawkers, it does not contain titanium. There is another Whitford product containing titanium called QuanTanium. The Eclipse coating appears to be one of the best. Whitford also produces the Excaliber coating used on stainless steel. Eclipse has been tested by Whitford to have a longevity 10 times greater than the next best "internally reinforced" coating tested by pushing a weighted Scotch-Brite pad across a coated surface. The Eclipse survived greater than 200,000 cycles with non-stick coating intact. So regardless of whether or not you like the Ameriware marketing, it appears that the cookware is sound. Their netsite has inflated prices. If you like the Eclipse coating on a pan and don't need to settle for the same sizes that Ameriware offers, check out the Sam's Club Member's Mark Hard Anodized cookware. You may do without a frying pan and have different sized sauce pans, but get Eclipse cookware at 1/4 th the price - about $100. And it's a nicer looking set. Does not appear to have nonstick on the outside like the Ameriware. Research before you jump. There's something to be said for being tight. Happy shopping.


On October 30, 2005 at 06:14 AM, Michael Lee said...
Subject: Ameriware, Sam's Club Member Select
Quick update. I visited Sam's Club to see the cookware. It is labeled with the Eclipse nonstick. There are 2 rivets not covered with nonstick. The Ameriware have 3 rivets and are covered with nonstick. The handle is cast in stainless steel in a shape similar All Clad, but it has a bead blasted (matte) finish. So unlike the Ameriware, you may expect that food will stick to the rivets. I expect the cookware to remain nonstick for a long time because of the Eclipse finish. The Member's Select has a steamer that fits the same lid as the bottom pot. Price was $108 and change. The 12 inch frying pan does not have a lid to match. The cookware is made of thick aluminum, anodized. Made in China. Designed in America.


On October 30, 2005 at 11:59 PM, Dieter D (guest) said...
Subject: Interesting Cookware
I've sold Cutco knives previously and love having reliable cutlery and since I sold for them did a LOT of research on quality, how they were made and the importance of a US owned company.

I saw the Ameriware and asked a lot of construction questions of the seller (Costco). I must admit he did answer almost all of them to my satisfaction. The construction of the pan is made with a titanium/aluminum alloy/mix. The alluminum (I know from selling Cutco cookware) makes a GREAT even conductor, giving even heat to the whole pan. The ceramic was new to me, and thought it a great. I also asked about the rivets. Nickel based alloy which was good. Some companies use cheap steel or brass rivets which expand and contract from heat and cooling, causing them to loosen (see knives with brass rivets). Nickel (again, knew this from Cutco) has a lower expansion rate and is great for the heating and cooling so they won't loosen or make gaps where food can get stuck and cause bacterial buildup.

I've just bought a set as I still had some OLD pans from my mother (I'm 26) and need something decent since I do like to cook. I can't see why these wouldn't and the price WAS reasonable ($399) for a full set of cookware. At least I thought so compared to other high-quality sets I've seen retail. We'll see how it holds up:). If anything I'm keeping the receipt and warranty info, and just use one pan for now. If after a month I don't like, back to Costco it goes.


On October 31, 2005 at 09:52 AM, UserNameUser (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
Just yesterday we bought three Ameriware pans at Costco.

Is the surface ceramic or PETE? The series of postings is not clear about that. Sure feels like a plastic/Teflon surface.

I found this site because the pan shows signs of wear after the first use! I used a plastic tool to "saute" diced potatos and onions without any oil. The food worked well - though clearly the oil helps develop and spread the flavors.

The pan needed some light scouring to clean it - I was surprised. When I dried it I noticed that a small bubble had come up out of the surface and there are several light scratches. I will probably cart them back to Costco and ask for my money back. Doesn't seem right.[<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/ginolg/.cv/ginolg/Sites/.Public//Ameriware%20Pan%20after%20one%20use.jpg-thumb_194_194.jpg" /img>] :shock:


On October 31, 2005 at 07:21 PM, Michael Lee said...
Subject: Ameriware
I would be surprised to find that the pan was an alloy of aluminum and titanium. From the label on the Ameriware it appears to be a claim that the nonstick finish is ceramic and titanium. In any case, it is also surprising that the labeling does not state that Eclipse is used as the finish. Do a Google search on "Whitford Ameriware" and bring up the pdf file. The only reference in there to Ameriware is in a picture of the Ameriware frying pans. You may be thinking of PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene) rather than PETE (polyethylene terephthalate) which is a good oven/microwave save plastic mainly used in reheatable food containers. PTFE is sold under the Dupont label as Teflon. So if Ameriware is saying that it has no Teflon, they may be technically correct as long as they get their PTFE from a non Dupont source. Check out Whitford (whitfordww.com) for their pan coatings. Even Whitford admits that their top layer is PTFE. I suppose the best way to get correct info is to correspond with Ameriware. I am not sure that you will get the best info from the sales people. Ameriware is a marketing company, not a manufacturer. Check them out on the bbb.org site. It redirects to labbb.org (Los Angeles bbb) and reflects a Burbank company. You could also ask Vollrath. Absent labeling on the pan, it will be hard to tell the source or makeup of the nonstick surface. As far as I can tell, none of the Whitford coatings include both ceramic and titanium, but maybe they have one not noted on their site.


On November 01, 2005 at 04:57 PM, Michael Lee said...
Subject: Ameriware
I inquired with Whitford and the following is their comment intertwined with my questions:

I see that some of your literature ( www.miraeww.com/Data/notice/MIRAE_04050705.pdf


) shows that Ameriware uses Eclipse on their pans. I can find no other source for the Ameriware pan coatings. Ameriware advertises that their nonstick coating contains both ceramic and titanium and does not have a sticker for or advertise the use of Eclipse.

Does Whitford make the coating for Ameriware pans made by Vollrath? Whitford is the supplier of the nonstick coating used on the Ameriware line of cookware. Does Whitford have a coating containing both ceramic and titanium. Our standard Eclipse does not contain titanium. Ameriware asked us to develop an Eclipse product which included titanium for added durability. Ameriware is the only customer to which we supply this formulation. And if, as shown in the pdf file, Eclipse is used on Ameriware pans, why does Ameriware not name Eclipse as their nonstick coating? Whitford does not require that our customers use our trade marks. Finally, is it true that Eclipse uses PTFE, not from Dupont, so that it is the same substance, but not the same name? PTFE is the nonstick component used in virtually every quality nonstick coating from any supplier of nonstick coatings. "Teflon" is a trade mark of E.I. Dupont for their particular PTFE products. Yes, Eclipse also uses PTFE as the nonstick component.

Your questions are probably triggered by the media comments regarding the safety of nonstick coatings. In fact, the furor is caused by a processing aid (C8 of PFOA) used in the manufacturer of PTFE and not the PTFE itself. Many new test reports have been coming out that show that there is no residual C8 or PFOA in the nonstick of coated cookware. As you can imagine, we have gotten many inquiries on the subject. I am attaching a recent peer reviewed report which is heavy on the science, but the conclusion in the last paragraph has the synopsis concerning nonstick cookware.

Please let me know if we can be of further assistance.

Best regards,

John Badner

So, indeed, Ameriware does have ceramic and titanium in the coating and the coating is provided by Whitford. Since the custom coating contains titanium, technically it is not Eclipse; it is like Eclipse extra. There was also a pdf attachment which I did not attach here since it is 76K in size, but if you want it posted, I will drop it in, assuming that there is a way to insert attachments. John Bader said that it is technical, just up your alley. Or if interested, post your email address and I will send individually.


On November 02, 2005 at 05:08 PM, Michael Lee said...
Subject: Ameriware
On a further note, I asked John Bader of Whitford if the addition of the titanium improved the durability of the coating. His response was that addition of the titanium to Eclipse provided a
Quote:
marginal improvement in abrasion resistance. The major improvement was in the talking point of the coating containing titanium.


I looked at the pdf file and it was very technical. It was a step by step on a procedure to extract perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) from a pan surface using water, ethanol and methanol at elevated temperatures. Good bedtime reading.


On November 04, 2005 at 07:41 AM, UserNameUser (guest) said...
Subject: procedure to extract perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA)
Michael Lee - thank you for your excellent contributions.

The technical document sent to you by John Badner discussed the process for removing PFOA from the coating. Do we have any evidence or assurance that Ameriware pans were so cleansed? Is the process described standard proceedure?


On November 05, 2005 at 12:05 AM, an anonymous reader said...
First of all, thanks to ALL of you for your diligence in research and for sharing your information. I just purchased a set of Vollrath Ameriware at Costco yesterday; in regards to Heather Constable's post that you are dealing with Ameriware and not Vollrath, I thought others should note the warranty card that came with the set.

*******************
It states:

FULL 25-YEAR WARRANTY

All Ameriware Professional with PRO-Series PLUS cookware is fully warranted against defects in material and workmanship for a period of twenty-five years. Your cookware was constructed with the finest quality materials for lasting performance.

This warranty does NOT cover cookware used in food service settings, damage caused by overheating or other abuse, normal wear and tear to the cookware or the non-stick material, or surface imperfections which will not impair it's functional utility. Over time, surface imperfections may appear in the non-stick material. This is considered normal and will not affect the non-stick performance of the cookware.

If a defect in workmanship or materials appears during the warranty period, return the cookware, freight prepaid to: THE VOLLRATH COMPANY, INC., 1236 North 18th Street, Sheboygan, Wisconsin 53082-0611, and it will be replaced without charge.

This warranty gives you specific legal right, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.

Thank you for your purchase.

Please retain this card for your record and return the warranty envelope.
***************************

In light of the warranty card, it does appear that the purchaser would be relying on the manufacturer Vollrath, not Ameriware the marketing company, for defect in workmanship or material replacements ( which, as the warranty stated, do NOT include the non-stick surface ).

I'm returning my set to Costco; I have a very good 14-piece set of professional non-stick cookware that I have been happy using for two years, and it looks better than the Ameriware, and I've had no problems with the non-stick surface durability. I was planning on handing down my existing set to my son and his fiancee, but it looks like that won't be happening. CDV


On November 07, 2005 at 05:36 PM, Michael Lee said...
Subject: Perfluorooctanic Acid question
Skipping to the bottom of the analysis of the various pans in the extraction of perfluorooctanic acid, the experimenter was unable to extract any significant amount of PFOA. He commented that the finding was not surprising as "Fluoropolymers are typically manufactured near ambient temperature. Fabrication processes, such as used to coat cookware, require temperatures of greater than 300 degrees C (typically 350 to 450 degrees C). These temperatures, and the large surface area of the coating material, would easily vaporize any PFOA (boiling point 189 degrees C) that may have originally been present." "Under common cooking conditions and using food simulants (water and water/ethanol), no PFOA is detected from either coated or uncoated cookware with detection limits as low as 100 pg cm^-2."

Sorry, I was unable to figure out if I could attach the pdf file. Attempted with failure.

It would appear that PFOA need not be worried about.


On November 19, 2005 at 11:41 PM, Costco member (guest) said...
Subject: Re: ameriware
daisy wrote:
just want to know how the ameriware cookware holds up and if anyone has had to return them


I purchased mine in June 2005. I will be returning the set this coming week.
Even though I have been using the plastice utensils, I have scratches in my pots and pans. Yesterday I noticed, that small particles are staring to come loos............all I can say, I'm very thankfull to have purchased the set at Costco


On November 21, 2005 at 06:49 AM, sues (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware ccokware review
I found this discussion as I have had a set of Ameriware nonstick cookware for several years and just bought a new piece at Costco. I realize it is overpriced, but so is the much advertised All-Clad brand. I like the cookware very much. It heats evenly and quickly. The nonstick surface on my pans is as good as new. The only downside is that I don't get the little bits of browned food which add so much flavor using a nonstick surface. Also, the handles get very hot and the plastic covers are a pain to take on and off. I left a pan in the oven with the plastic wrapping and forgot to take it out when I later turned on the oven. The plastic melted all over the pan and I could not remove it off the outside. I returned the pan and a replacement was sent promptly. I also melted the plastic handles and was given new ones. I enjoyed reading your research on the product and the company, but I still recommend the cookware.


On December 06, 2005 at 06:07 AM, JackG (guest) said...
Subject: Makers Mark from Sams Club cookware
Yes, the Makers Mark have uncovered highly polished rivits, which do collect some cooking debris and browned color. I use dish detergent on a toothbrush to clean them and the places the handles attach, so there are no accumulated food particles to contaminate the cooking. After about a year, no metal utensils used in cooking, the surfaces seem like new, the bottoms have some brown stains from grease that was cooked on, but it will come off if cleaned properly. The pots and pans seem to be a good value so far, even when food (pasta) was left in one of the large pots and forgotten about (put away for days, thought it was cleaned) It cleaned out with no smell left in the pot or on the cover, but I did have to clean it with tomato sauce and vinegar to get the smell out. Cooking is done on a gas stove - meat, veggies, pasta, fish, lots of rice dishes, you name it. I have used stainless steel, cast iron, glass, ceramic, and aluminum cookware, and like all of them for various jobs, but these are generally the easiest to take care of and clean. Only regret, there are fewer covers than pots, but I had some glass covers left from other pans, almost fit the frying pans, are usable. The largest covered pan is a bit on the large and heavy side for some sinks and people. - Jack G. in Rochester NY


On December 06, 2005 at 09:11 AM, ksloan45 (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Cookware
I have had my Ameriware cookware for about 2 years, it is without question the best cookware I have ever owned... My last set was Circulon, which is peeling and food gets stuck in the ridges. I have tried them all, and have told my friends and family to buy Ameriware from Costco. I also love the fact that it is made in America!!!!!!...Kathy


On December 23, 2005 at 01:28 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: 43 Comments, no mention of PFC .... sigh....
Many contributors to the discussion subthread on PTFE miss several key points. Some have tried to clear things up though...let me try by adding the term "PFC"

1. When Calphalon says they don't use "Teflon", they are telling the truth. But, what they aren't telling you is their coating is in the CLASS of perfluorochemicals ..PFC !
As mentioned, I searched this entire thread, and not one person has mentioned the term PFC. And this is important! Don't miss this point:

Teflon is a brand of PTFE which is a type of PFC. And the entire list of chemicals in the PFC family is suspect. This includes ALL PTFE formula's (Dupont's formulas: Teflon, Dupont Autograph, Gore's formula, Calphalon's formula, and Scanpan's formula)

Skim this report to get the overview on PFC's...
http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/index.php

...it will clear up what many in this discussion thread are missing!

Let me try to outline a picture:

CLASS - PFC
TYPE - 'generic' (lab grade) PTFE
TYPE - branded PTFE (Teflon)
TYPE - branded PTFE (Gore)
TYPE - branded PTFE (Calphalon Non-Stick)
TYPE - branded PTFE (Scanpan)
TYPE - branded PTFE (T-fal)

TYPE - PFOA (like C8 ...which as someone mentioned is used to make Teflon)
TYPE - branded PFOS (PFOS is in pre-2000 Scotchgard, now banned by the EPA)

NOTICE THE LAST TWO I THREW IN ON THE LIST ABOVE. I JUMPED FROM LISTING PTFE's to PFOA and PFOS. THEY ARE ALL TYPES OF PFC's.

Ready to scream yet?

IT GETS WORSE ! The typing of PFC's includes also:
PFOSA, PFOSAA, M570, M556, C6, C7, C9, C10, C11, C12, THPFOS, THPFDS .... GET IT ???

So, if you're writing to a cookware company and want to know more about the non-stick coating...ask them if it includes ANY PFC chemical at all, which includes ANY PTFE, ANY PFOA, ANY PFOS...get my point ? Some of you need to quit focusing on Teflon (it's too specific...if a manufacturer uses a PTFE it might just be "generic Teflon" and companies like Calphalon & Scanpan can tell you a 1/2 truth because you've asked the wrong question! And other's need to quit focusing on PTFE or how it is bonded to the pan (whether IN a ceramic/titanium "matrix" or BONDED ON TOP OF a ceramic/titanium matrix)...or any other type of bonding mechanism.

- Skip Bogard
who btw...as one data point...met a girl friend in 2000. She was diagnosed
with Myeloma (a blood cancer) in 2001 at age 41, I asked her to marry me in 2002,
and we married May 31 2003. Sadly, my wife passed May 31, 2005. She saw herself
as a sort of health fanatic, and was shocked when she learned she had cancer and
was given about 3 years to live...even with chemo treatments.

Now, interestingly, she religiously had Stanley Steemer clean her carpets once a month & had 'em ScotchGarded when her children were growing up. And PFOS (in the pre-2000 Scotchgard formula...now banned by the EPA) has been implicated in damaging the thymus in humans & animals. The thymus is involved in the production of T-cells
(a type of white blood cell)...and the T-cells in Myeloma (the blood cancer she had) have been shown to be functionally defective (they are "stupid" and can't identify a Myeloma cancer cell, so they are allowed to proliferate.)

Much research is going on on trying to grow T-cells outside the body and then infusing them into a blood cancer patient (for treating Myeloma & some lymphomas). Or, you can alternatively infuse T-cells the old fashioned way...by getting them from a matched donor...like a brother or sister who can be a donor in a bone marrow transplant (now a-days, these are pretty obsolete except for some blood cancers...and they do blood stem-cell transplant...and use the stem cells to grow T-cells from those.

But I digress....my life has been focused on cancer for 3 years and I haven't spent much time picking up pots....I've spent more time eating hospital food and holding my wife's hand.

She didn't have a match donor brother or sister who could give her blood stem cells
to then generate new T-cells (the cancer killers), or her B-cells (another white blood cell...and a percentage of these were the cancer cells in her...that is Myeloma is a cancer of the B-cells....and of a more mature "adult" B-cell called the Plasma cell.

Live well.

Just one data point...among many out there if you take the time to look....at PFC's...


On December 23, 2005 at 01:44 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: minor correction
Minor correction with apologies to my beloved wife...she passed May 10, 2005, not on May 31 (our anniversary date). We didn't quite make it to being married for two years.

Flourine can a bad boy. ...google this:
pfc insecticide fluorine dupont
... you'll see what I mean....

you'll feel like Googling the word insecticide made you come full circle to discussing pots & pans non-stick coatings !

And you did...they're related.


On January 02, 2006 at 05:03 AM, FOOD_AND_DRUG (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware, Vollrath and Costco
Thanks to all for your comments about Ameriware.

Before finding this thread, but after purchasing 4 Chicken Fryers at Costco, I did a little research about Vollrath. After listening to the huckster at the "event" at my local Costco store, that Monday I Googled Vollrath and called their headquarters in Wisconsin.

A representative answered my questions and assured me that Vollrath is the manufacturer of the pans, and that the pans I saw at Costco or may see at a home show are Vollrath's line for the consumer trade. The rep stated that if I had a problem with the pan, I can either return it to Coscto or Vollrath.

Not knowing how to divide up a set among 4 people, I decided to purchase 4 Chicken Fryers that would double as fry pans and also offer the same versatility as the casserole pan (it's the same pan, except the chicken fryer has a handle) and the fryer comes with a lid, unlike the individiual fry pans sold at the Costco event, the lids are extra cost.

So, for $399.96, plus tax, I was able to purchase 4 Chicken Fryers and give each person one, vs. having to decide who receives which piece from a set.

I'm not familiar with all the issues surrounding Teflon and am sorry for the gentelman's loss of his wife. I truly did not know that the pans are of cancer causing materials.

I purchased the pans because I am tired of members of my family using such high heat under the pans that small fires have broken out and they ruin the pans! Hopefully, the Chicken Fryers will solve that problem, even if they never make chicken in them.

What has impressed me most about the pan is the lack of moisture that is required to cook in the pan (oil, water, etc.) and the only clean up is warm soap and water. The instructions advise to use Bon Ami to restore the outside luster of the pan.

Again, thanks to all for your comments.

P.S. As a side note, when I went back to my local Costco, the event was over, but they made an appearance the week before Christmas, the timing was perfect.

FOOD_AND_DRUG
Canyon Lake, CA


On January 28, 2006 at 12:51 AM, Kat (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I bought an Ameriware chicken fryer at Costco just 3 days ago after tossing my cheap Teflon fryer out. I was taken by the demonstration and found it tempting to buy the set. But I thought I'd give the fryer a shot first. All the posted info is very interesting in light of the media's Teflon denouncements. But I will not be buying any more Ameriware for a different reason. The long and heavy handle causes the pan to tip on the burner of my 10 year old Thermador gas cooktop. So consider design when purchasing cookware, too.


On January 28, 2006 at 05:16 AM, analytic shopper (guest) said...
Subject: other Whitford Eclipse, Anyone try Swiss Diamond? browning?
Thank you Michael Lee for the informative research on Eclipse and Ameriware.

I independently stumbled across the Eclipse triple coating when I was trying to find the perfect nonstick cookware.
JCPenney has a line of cooks hard anodized Eclipse cookware as well, very inenxpensive and on sale now half price, $15-25 for skillets. Might be worth a try!
http://www.jcpenney.com/products/Cg11020.jsp

Another line of Eclipse is available in Canada.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/
The description of Artisan 7pc Cookset has 7mm thermal bottoms, silicon nonstick exterior and seems well made.

I also witnessed the Costco demo, and found the fry pans to be very easy to tip. The handle weight causes an imbalance. The thickness of the pans did not seem adequate to me. Just some information for those who might consider purchase.

I also found a very informative Australian site which rated nonstick pans.
http://www.choice.com.au/viewarticleasonepage.aspx?id=104488&catId=100285...p=1
While I was unable to find many of the brands listed there for availability in US, it provided excellent factual comparisons of construction, wear resistance, evenness of cooking and many other facts.

Based on their findings, I decided to further investigate Scanpan and Swiss Diamond(500F oven safe) product lines, both of which are available on Amazon.

From user feedback it seems that either line is preferred to Analon, Calphalon, and many other high priced brands, but very few have left feedback for the Swiss Diamond line.

I have used nonstick skillets since the early 70's when I first acquired a T-fal skillet. It is actually still useable! The coating was very different back then, but Tefal made a good product.
I had a more recent set from ChefMate which were quite good (very thick aluminum) until my idiot ex used metal tools in them.

So I would really like to know if anyone has had the chance to compare performance of Scanpan vs. Swiss Diamond, as they seem to be viable options. I think a thick base is essential for stability and performance.

The marketing for Swiss Diamond states that it browns and sears well, which is not generally the case with conventional nonstick. Is the hype worth the price? It would seem they also use some variant on PTFE although the information is not readily available. Silverstone is another brand name useage like Teflon.

Does anyone have any feedback on Maillard (browning) performance for nonstick pans?

Thanks


On February 11, 2006 at 05:47 PM, Ty said...
Subject: Happy with my cookware, extremely mad at the sales rep
We purchased the Ameriware cookware from Costco in 2003. At the time, I only used Caphalon un-coated (the older stuff). My wife never learned how to cook with it, so we decided to go with something coated, but wanted Caphalon-like quality.

During the demonstration, I asked a number of questions. Ultimately, we decided to get the $399.00 deal. However, some of the questions we asked focused on cleaning. The sales rep showed us the "bread-bag" demo (where the bread bag was set up against the pan to scorch, then simply wiped away). He also mentioned that because of the "Ceramic NON-TEFLON" coating, deep cleaning the pans was as simple as taking off the silicone heat guards, throwing them into the oven, and setting it to CLEAN mode.

Well after three years of use, we had built up enough scorched sides (and rims, which are not coated) to warrant the deep cleaning. We threw in our chicken fryer, and two largest skillets. Mid-point through the cleaning the smell was so bad that we nearly left the house. After completion, we were shocked to see that the pans were baked down to the aluminum, and all coatings were in ashes (Ceramic indeed!). To make matters worse, we found that the oven was impregnated with a chalky white coating unlike anything we had seen from previous oven-cleans.

In summary, we are out our best pans due to this sales rep's lie. I am considering returning the whole set to get a Costco refund, but embarrassed that I took for face value what the rep said. Most likely, I will ebay the lids and throw the ruined pans away.

I must mention that the non-stick performance of the pans has degraded over three years (for the highly used ones). While it is still good, I cannot slide a fried egg on to a plate without some coaxing and jarring. We definitely don’t make grilled cheese sandwiches by frying the cheese on the pan as they showed in the demo (leaves residue). That said, the construction and weight of the equipment as compared with the Caphalon is stellar. The non-stick surfaces holds up moderately better than others we have tried. After reading this thread, I may opt to order replacement pieces from the parent company; VollRath. If prices are comparable with the local Cash-and-carry restaurant supply store, then I see no reason to purchase from Ameriware.

...now where is that dang Costco Receipt?

/Ty


On February 12, 2006 at 08:16 PM, ctc (guest) said...
Subject: Happy with my cookware, extremely mad at the sales rep
Thank you, TY, for your comment.

Yesterday, at Costco, I saw an Ameriware saleman doing his sales pitch. He told me there is no coating on the cookware. He also said the cookware is made of titanium ceramic "alloy". I asked him how high a temperature can the cookware take. He told me since there is no coating the cookware can go as high as 1600 degree at which temperature the metal melts. No organic material can resist such a high temperature. Only inorganics can. Since the sign said "titanium ceramic", I though this cookware had an inorganic coating.

Your tragic experience proves that the Ameriware does indeed has an organic coating, most likely some sort of perfluoropolymer, which has low surface tension, thus, non-sticking property. CTC


On February 27, 2006 at 06:32 AM, GaryProtein said...
Subject: Re: other Whitford Eclipse, Anyone try Swiss Diamond? browni
analytic shopper wrote:

. . . Based on their findings, I decided to further investigate Scanpan and Swiss Diamond(500F oven safe) product lines, both of which are available on Amazon.

From user feedback it seems that either line is preferred to Analon, Calphalon, and many other high priced brands, but very few have left feedback for the Swiss Diamond line.

So I would really like to know if anyone has had the chance to compare performance of Scanpan vs. Swiss Diamond, as they seem to be viable options. I think a thick base is essential for stability and performance.

The marketing for Swiss Diamond states that it browns and sears well, which is not generally the case with conventional nonstick. Is the hype worth the price?

Thanks


I am a very analytic shopper too.

I never used a Scanpan, but I have done side by side by side by side by side tests with the following pans: Swiss Diamond, Anolon Professional, Anolon Titanium, Calphalon anodized and Berndes Signocast. I purchased the 8" pans of each type. The Swiss Diamond was absolutely fantastic. It cooks very evenly, browns well and cleans up like a charm. I now own their 2.2, 3.2 and 8.5 qt stockpots, and four sizes of their fry/saute pans and their oval covered roast pan. They are wonderful. Metal utensils are okay for stirring and serving, but no knives for cuttiing and no metal spoons to dig off burned split pea soup if you leave the kitchen for two hours and burn your pot-that's abuse. (You wouldn't drive your Bentley off-road through the mud either.) I don't worry about using metal in them with care, but I see no need to test them to failure. As per Murphy's Law: anything used to its fullest potential will break.

The Anolon Professional (I believe no longer available, but with the same surface as the "Advanced" line but with a different handle, Berdes Signocast were very good and similar in all respects, but did not clean as well or brown as well as Swiss Diamond. The Anolon Titanium browned better than the Anolon Professional and Berdes and is more durable than those two, but did not clean as easily. The Calphalon browned well but did not clean easily and was not durable. The Calphalon is also a thinner pan, and I'll say I liked that one the least.

I don't claim to be the last word, but I did test eggs and omelettes, and browning meat in each of them under the same conditions. If you must do your own tests, it is not a major investment to purchase the 8" pans as they are frequently on sale and/or have manufacturer's specials to get you to try their products.


On March 18, 2006 at 12:06 AM, Ron Burris (guest) said...
Subject: Swiss Diamond & other non-stick cookware
I have over a dozen brands of cookware, with 1/3 being non-stick (Bourget, Le Cruset, Henckels, Berndes, Swiss Diamond, Analon, Scan Pan, Premier). The Swisss Diamond is definitely the sturdiest, and has the best non-stick qualities over time - I have 3 pans - I always use wood or plastic utensils. I'm very careful to only use low-medium heat to cook stews/soups etc. For high heat cooking, its definitely bad to use anything with Teflon or its PTE cousins. Rather than plain stainless steel or aluminum, I have been using Cybernox cookware by Sitram (A respected French company). It is a real shiny metal alloy that can go to 1800 degrees, lining and fused to a stainless steel body, with a 5mm or 6mm thick base. It is NOT non-stick, more 'stick resistant', but whatever sticks and burns cleans up easily - much more so than plain stainless steel. Usually, just soaking for a while lets burnt on gunk come up easily with a sponge. If its really burnt in, a touch of Bar Keepers Friend, and the pan is as shiny and reflective as a mirror! Cybernox is the only brand I use for skillets and saute pans. Having worked in a restaurant for 9 years, I've seen more than my share of burnt & crusty skillets - nothing else has come as clean so easily. Only negative to Cybernox is price. (This has not been a paid advertisement!)


On March 20, 2006 at 12:20 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Ameriware Cookware
I purchased a set of these pots and pans almost 2 years ago. I've been pretty happy with them, but the pans have begun to stick. I don't any pan will ever stay non-stick. I liked the idea of buying them because I was told they did not have aluminum in them, which I am trying to avoid becuase of aluminum's potentail hastening of Altzeimers. Now, I find out they may not have told me the truth, which does not make me happy. I went ot Costco today and the Ameriware people were there and I got a phone number to call, but instead I went to customer service and they were able to find my purchase in their computer records and even print out a receipt for me (My wife doesn't keep any kind of receipt that long). Now I can bring back the entire set and get a full refund. As was stated earlier, Costco really stands behind their products. So this week that's what I'm going to do. I haven't decided if I will re-purchase a new set I think I will research it a little more, but I would like to buy them from Costco because of their return policy.


On March 20, 2006 at 10:08 AM, real person/real world (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware
Just an observation... it seems that the majority of people who have [u:b00f1c8694]actually bought and used this product [/u:b00f1c8694]really like it and are very satisfied. It would come as no surprise to find that the rest of the comments come from people who are constantly looking at the glass half empty, while it is good to research a product or a service provider - some of the folks here have gone above (or should I say below) and beyond what is necessary. A negative picture can be painted about anyone or anything - just check out a court room!
and yes I have this cookware and love it, and in response to the person who was concerned about cooking their stir fry at high heat...
the pans don't need anything higher than medium heat
they heat well and even, I was amazed how quickly water came to a boil.


On March 28, 2006 at 07:09 AM, redrose said...
Subject: Non-stick or Stainless Steel
:(
I just bought this set from Costco coz I wanted a good set. I was bidding on Amway on ebay but never succeed.
Just wondering if I should keep this Ameriware set. After read after these NON-stick things, I am very worried. I like to cook on non-stick but don't want to get un-healthy things for my kids.

Another question, how can people return things to Costco after using for 2 years? I thought you may only return things used in 90 days.

Anyway, very confused now.


On March 28, 2006 at 02:22 PM, GaryProtein said...
Subject: Re: minor correction
Anonymous wrote:
Minor correction with apologies to my beloved wife...she passed May 10, 2005, not on May 31 (our anniversary date). We didn't quite make it to being married for two years.

Flourine can a bad boy. ...google this:
pfc insecticide fluorine dupont
... you'll see what I mean....

you'll feel like Googling the word insecticide made you come full circle to discussing pots & pans non-stick coatings !

And you did...they're related.


Fluorine and non-stick are not the bad boys you make them out to be. Adhesives and/or attachment methods in some non-stick ware if burned or abused may not be good for you, but if you google Gore-Tex, you will find that teflon (polytetrafluoroethylene) is used in many surgical prostheses and implants, and has been for well over 20 years. Gore-tex is expanded PTFE, and there are MANY different configurations of expanded PTFE. They are used in cardiovascular surgery, abdominal surgery, oral surgery and others. This material saves lives.


On March 28, 2006 at 06:27 PM, redrose said...
Subject: Oh, still confused
I have read this thread from 1st page to the last again and still confused if I should keep this Ameriware set or not. I like non-stick very much. I use a non-stick wok every day. But I am worried with this Teflon thing too. Maybe I should just do as a lady stated earlier that we should use stainless steel as much as possible. So where may I get a good priced stailess steel set? I wonder why Costco doesn't have one.


On March 31, 2006 at 01:50 AM, GaryProtein said...
My brother has a set of Ameriware from Costco and he likes it very much. Don't abuse/burn them, and you should be free of any health risks. I, personally like the Swiss Diamond.


On April 09, 2006 at 03:01 AM, Mari (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
It's had a question about the safety of my new Ameriware and really hit the jackpot with this site! Your research is awesome and the comments are much appreciated. Regarding the warranty- if the non-stick isn't warrantied, what's the point? I purchased the pan in large part for its nonstick quality!


On April 25, 2006 at 10:43 PM, Edward (guest) said...
Subject: seems good
I read this thread and still bought the ameriware $399 set today. I cook only a couple times a week, and my calphalon non-stick pans were shot, so this seems like a good replacement, and less expensive than the calphalon ones.
Seems like a good set.. the guy did the cheese & plastic bag demo, and it was impressive.. he used metal utencils, but they gave me plastic ones.
I look forward to browning some turkey in the pan for dinner tonight!

http://www.dealtaker.com - the cool place for hot deals


On August 08, 2006 at 09:19 PM, Karyn (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Pans
I bought a 10" pan at Costco last week. I bought it because I can't stand my Circulon pan anymore for scrambling eggs. Too hard to clean. It cost a little more than I was willing to spend but, in a Costco moment, I thought "what the heck?"

I am absolutely delighted with this pan. It has a nice heft to it and best of all, cleans up SO easily. I'm now thinking of buying more of these. Adios Circulon. In no way do I feel scammed. Besides, as regular Costco shopper knows, the store doesn't sell junk -- it's products are always high quality.


On August 08, 2006 at 11:54 PM, GaryProtein said...
I had circulon pans many years ago. It's a wonder they are still around. I agree with you. They are terrible to clean and the ridges made them extremely bad for eggs and omelets that you want to to be able to slide around in the pan. They offered no advantage in any aspect of cooking.


On August 16, 2006 at 06:39 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: warped pans
Can someone recommend some brand of cookware that is more warp-proof?

I have a smooth-top cooking surface. A warped pan is of no use to me. I have used a variety of brands of non-stick cookwares over the years. And invariably each and every one of them warp. The difference between different brands was the time it took to warp. Some lasted long. Some others were so-so. One brand warped the first time I cook egg. It is frustrating!!


On August 16, 2006 at 07:36 AM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: warped pans
Anonymous wrote:
Can someone recommend some brand of cookware that is more warp-proof?

Which brands have you been using? Most high quality pans are pretty much warp proof (assuming you mean warping due to heat) but thin stainless steel pots and pans do warp and are a pain to work with.

If you're really at your wits end, I'd recommend All-Clad. The construction really is top notch and they are my favorite pans to use. Never had one warp on me (but then neither have my Calphalon, Clad Farberware, or Clad Tramontina either...)


On September 02, 2006 at 05:30 AM, kikiroo (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware pans
I purchased the 399 set at Costco, too. I have a couple of all clad stainless steel, couple Daniel Boulud stainless and a griddle from Calphalon one, nonstick. I was thinking that these pans are safe, and now am wondering if all the non stick pans are toxic in one way or another??? I use the stainless steel for higher heat, no high heat, and usually use med. or low on the ameriware, calphalon one, etc. Now, I have only had my ameriware pans for about two months, but now am feeling like maybe I should return them? Costco does now carry a stainless set, I saw there today.
any thoughts???


On September 02, 2006 at 07:45 AM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: ameriware pans
kikiroo wrote:
Now, I have only had my ameriware pans for about two months, but now am feeling like maybe I should return them?

Nonstick coatings should not be harmful unless overheated. If you cook under normal conditions (medium-high heat at most), you should be fine. In most non-stick cooking situations (unless you are heating an empty pan), you should be working just below that temperature range. How do you like the pans? If they work well for you and your style of cooking, then you should consider keeping them.


On September 03, 2006 at 05:18 AM, kikiroo (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware pans
Thanks Michael.
I think that you have good insight and are a fair evaluator on the merits of pans. I appreciate your posts and your level head. I do like them. I think they do heat evenly and so far have seem to be of good quality. I kind of felt like if Costco allowed them to be sold, then they weren't junk and at 400 bucks, I would hope not. I do think that most sales people inflate the values so you think that you are getting a deal, but having a nice set that was good quality and useful sizes is what got me. I also thought that they were safer becaue of the no teflon statements made. I kind of wanted some pans around in case my husband or kids got a hold of that I wouldn't freak if they used them, or heaven forbid took a metal utensil to them. I am trying to get it thru their heads that it high heat doesn't cook their foods any faster, so as long as they follow that rule we should be okay, right? I like the option of making stuff like kraft mac and cheese for the kids in a nonstick pan. I haven't tried making it or rice for that matter in a stainless for years. I had some old revere ware that everything stuck to, so I learned the money pit way, that you get what you pay for when it comes to stainless steel. Now, many moons later, I have some stainless that are not non stick and like them very much. I have one Daniel Boulud six quart saute/braising pan that I think is my favorite. It has copper up the sides and bottom, kind of like the all clad. I use a silicone spatula and so far, nothing has stuck to it. I use it for everything. Well, thanks much for your support and I look forward to reading your posts. God bless you.


On September 03, 2006 at 10:37 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Quote:
Another line of Eclipse is available in Canada.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/
The description of Artisan 7pc Cookset has 7mm thermal bottoms, silicon nonstick exterior and seems well made.


After witnessing the Costco demonstration yesterday and googling 'Ameriware Review' I picked up the Artisan set on sale for 89.99 Cdn, marked down from 230.00.

They are heavy, seem well made and indeed come with the Eclipse coating.

Thanks for the tip.


On October 20, 2006 at 05:07 AM, sunny (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Cookware
I have read lot of the posts here and other places about Ameriware some seem like they have a hidden agenda or are just looking to try and find out something to complain about. So peolpe for what its worth I Love everything about our Ameriware cookware I have hade it for several years& looks as good now as when we got it ! OK maybe a few age marks.... Here is the truth~They clean up so very easily.nothing cooks as evenly or is as fun to use This cookware is better then all the other nonstick brands we have tried We have tried everything at Costco . and even that new Caphalon one .(which is really not very nonstick) I researched this cookware before we bought it. It's made by the Vollrath company in the USA, they are famous for commerical cookware and other commerical kitchen products ...You can't go wrong here .


On November 15, 2006 at 10:04 PM, confused (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware
I purchase Ameriware set from Costco for my daughter. She LOVES it. So I purchase one for me. I have a smooth surface cooktop and cannot get these pans hot enough. Is this the reason?? Does anyone know if they are recommended for use on smooth surface cooktops?? I can't seem to find any information on this.


On November 24, 2006 at 11:05 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: ameriware product page
Here's the link to the Ameriware Products that Costco sells. The lids seem to be non stick also, while the Costco ones are SS...

http://www.cookware.tv/


On November 26, 2006 at 08:43 PM, unhappy comsumer (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
My husband and I bought this set, also from Costco, but three years ago (just before Thanksgiving so we'd have some pots and pans to cook on). We fell for the titanium/ceramic coating hook, line and sinker. My biggest concern was to definitely NOT have teflon, plus we were assured that wqe could use metal utensils due to the superior coating quality. The coating started scratching about a year after purchase, but when I attempted to look up their co. online, I got no where. I was am glad I found this site, and will return our set to Costco at the earliest convenience as well make a complaint with the BBB, given that our coating is full of scratches, on both sides. Yes, it's great to cook with, but being pregnant, I want to make sure that no metal toxins are being ingested by me (or by my 1 yr old). Thanks for your input, foks...and purchase and use at your own risk....


On December 10, 2006 at 11:11 PM, maxthrottle (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware is like the rest, just costs more
I've had ameriware pots and pans for a few years. All but two that I seldom used have been trashed. After a few burnings, the coating is shot like all the rest. I tried to take the first back to ameriware they sent it back as is. I like costco but made the mistake of buying this from a military base. At least costco backs up a product even if ameriware doesn't. Having said that i enjoyed using the pots during the period they lasted, but I would only buy something like this from costco in the future, and save the receipts!


On December 22, 2006 at 07:27 PM, Eric (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
For what its worth, I bought the Ameriware $400 set online at Costco.com and it shipped from Sylmar, Ca. It seems as though it ships from Cooks Warehouse.

Also, prior to being a mechanical engineer, I worked at Costco for 5 years. I was the guy they would call to look over electronics returns. They will, in fact, take just about anything back at almost any time. However, sometimes they may not "be in the mood", so to speak. So, there are some keywords to say and avoid.

Best things to say:
- I am worried about the coating causing health problems
- Something about the (item) not working like it should

Avoid at all costs:
- I just don't want/like it anymore

Basically they want something more substantial than your feeling - they want an actual reason for concern. There is also a sense of how long something 'should' last, because they wont take things back forever. Although, I have seen close to that - computers after 7 years, which they wont do anymore if you bought it after Oct 2003. So best bet - health concerns - I bet they will take it back in a heart beat, even 10 years later.

Cheers!

Eric


On January 08, 2007 at 04:14 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Ameriware- does not live up!
I have owned an Ameriware cookware set for a couple of years. I am concerned about comments of a generic teflon coating. I am also experiencing a lot of trouble with food sticking in the heavily used frying pans. Soaking and scraping with a plastic spatula in now required. The handles rust so I have removed the handle covers and use pot holders. I am considering returning the whole set to Costco as I also feel that I have been duped.


On January 14, 2007 at 05:53 AM, an anonymous reader said...
:unsure: i am not sure what to think at all, i just purchased the complete pot set tonight at Coscto and my husband was very skeptical..wants me to do some research. good thing for this site, lots of good info to look over, good to be informed that is for sure. I am very curious as to what the coating is really made from, i have to admit, that was my main concern, that it was not teflon, but then again...is teflon dangerous if it is not flaking off? some say yes/no. So if anyone has more info on what the coating is made of, please post! ;)


On February 17, 2007 at 10:40 PM, Karen (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I read the above discussion with amazement. I did purchase one of the large saute pans over a year ago. I wish I had purchased more. The pan is absolutely incredible for cooking and cleaning. There is nothing that I have yet to find that sticks in the pan.

Today, as I was looking into the possibility of purchasing a larger saute pan with a lid from Ameriware, I found this website accidentily.

I have used the pan daily since the day I purchased it for over a year and it continues to provide the same wonderful results. I have never had to struggle cleaning this pan. EVERYTHING, even cheese, just slips out without any effort.

I'm wondering about the logic of the above poster that would prefer buying a new pan every few years and worrying about cleaning difficult to remove substances. This appears totally without logic to me.

Enjoy, Karen :)


On March 09, 2007 at 09:03 PM, Gloria (guest) said...
Subject: BEWARE AMERIWARE and COOKS WAREHOUSE!
I bought a big set of this Ameriware at a home show, begiled by the demo and promises that the coating was not TEFLON. The sales guy was slick, and he lied about several things, including telling me that the contact info. he gave me was his own (turned out to be the number for COOKS WAREHOUSE in Burbank).

As soon as I got the stuff home, I discoverd via internet research (much of it HERE) that the coating is PTFE, essentially generic TEFLON. Having read so many bad things about this coating, I immediately called to return it, and was given one heck of a time by MR. HOWARD TEICHMAN, who initially told me he would not refund my money, and then insisted on charging bogus "restocking fee".

In the end I did end up buying a large box (in which to combine the smaller cookware boxes) and packing materials, and paying for shipping, insurance and proof of delivery (over $30) just to get them to take the stuff back. Then it was almost TWO MONTHS and several follow-up calls after they received my (completely unused and in the original packaging) pots and pans, before they issued a refund to my credit card.

In my experience MR. TEICHMAN and the COOKS WAREHOUSE, INC. are NOT TO BE TRUSTED. The company has operated under a number of different names over the years, apparently as a ruse to avoid the many complaints that the Better Business Bureau has logged against them. Support companies that have integrity, not hucksters like these.


On March 11, 2007 at 03:58 PM, Costco Shopper (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Pans
Yes, I bought a set of Ameriware pots and pans from a salesperson at Costco about a year ago. My problem is this, how do you cleanthe sides and bottoms of the outside of the cookware??? Mine have discolored horribly....I use a gas stove and my small saute pan that I use all the time is so dirty and no amount of scrubbing will clean the cooked on whatever. I know one of the stains interacted with the coating outside, I think it was egg and it totally took the coating off! I now have a 'stripe going down the side of my pan. HELP.....Otherwise, I like the ease of cleaning and cooking with my set. Any help will be appreciated....


On March 12, 2007 at 03:32 AM, GaryProtein said...
I don't own any of these pans, but, I can say from experience, that a gas stove will burn stuff onto the sides of pans. Cookware that is stainless steel, glass or porcelain coated can be cleaned with scrubbing, but other surfaces may well have their outer surfaces damaged by forceful scrubbing needed to clean off stuff burned on by a gas stove. (DO NOT let anything boil over the sides of a copper pot or pan. It will NEVER look the same after cleaning.)


On March 12, 2007 at 06:19 AM, Pablo (guest) said...
Subject: response to Heather
Well, Heather, as they say--the proof is in the pudding. I'm enjoying that pudding myself, and if a time comes when I fail to (as the posting above clarifies), I will return it to Costco for a full refund at any time (with or without the receipt).

But unfortunately, you will not be having any pudding, so to speak, because you don't have tbe pots to make it with.

Kind regards.


On March 17, 2007 at 07:48 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: A few bits that caution me about ameriware
1. They don't make their own products, they just combine others products (volrath and eclipse). This either means they are a front company unloading a bad product, a rebranding company selling other peoples products more effectivly, or a regular company just using others technology. Seeing how they have been around for decades, the prospect of a front company is eliminated. However, i would chalk them up as a rebrander, due to the bull they say.

2. The bull they say. They claim they're restraunt grade because they're durable (restraunts use cheap, replaceable pans, not durable ones). The no Teflon claim is misleading, because Teflon and the toxins in it aren't nessecarly the same. The trade shows and sometimes unreliable people there are another bit of bull. The name itself is the biggest tell, ameriware.

Personally, i don't like buying from resellers. It not only usually has some sort of scam behind it, it just feels dishonest to me.


On March 19, 2007 at 05:30 AM, Guest (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware pans
Ok, so we've had our Ameriware pans for about two years and they've started to stick....really bad. The small 8" saute pan with eggs is now ridiculous. Does anyone know how to treat this problem? What I'm really concerned about is whatever *used* to prevent 'the stick,' has burned off and was ingested by my family.

Thoughts on treating the pans? A course of action? Should we return them completely?

Thank you.

-T


On March 31, 2007 at 10:48 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Re: Ameriware Pans
Costco Shopper wrote:
Yes, I bought a set of Ameriware pots and pans from a salesperson at Costco about a year ago. My problem is this, how do you cleanthe sides and bottoms of the outside of the cookware??? Mine have discolored horribly....I use a gas stove and my small saute pan that I use all the time is so dirty and no amount of scrubbing will clean the cooked on whatever. I know one of the stains interacted with the coating outside, I think it was egg and it totally took the coating off! I now have a 'stripe going down the side of my pan. HELP.....


I had the same problem. I used Goo Gone. A little bit on a paper towel and some rubbing. Then wash thoroughly with plenty of soap and water.


On April 16, 2007 at 03:50 PM, Gabe (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Pans
I bought these pans and got the same stuff from the guy at the
Costco store. I was also told that these pans and pots need to be seasoned. Never heard that re non stick of any sort.

Any comments.

Thx
Gabe


On April 16, 2007 at 06:36 PM, an anonymous reader said...
I've owned an ameriware 12" nonstick fry pan for about a year and a half. We purchased it at costco for a very reasonable price (approx $50).

I do a lot of stir frying on high heat and have killed many expensive and not-so-expensive fry pans.

The ameriware pan has held up like a champ. It's by far the best pan i've used (including some expensive pans like a 12" nonstick all-clad). It still releases everything with minimal effort (including scrambled eggs, which are the biggest pain for me traditionally).

I'm currently in the process of trying to find some more ameriware pans to replace the other fry pans in my kitchen that are dying or just flat out dead at this point.


On April 17, 2007 at 01:23 AM, cloud_swift said...
Any warranty of the form (and many warranties use this form):
Quote:
<product x> is fully warranted against defects in material and workmanship for ....

This warranty does NOT cover ... or other abuse, normal wear and tear ....

is very limited and may not do much for you. It is very subject to the interpretation of the company making the warranty. Some companies with a lot of integrity (or a healthy self-interest in keeping the customer happy for repeat business and referrals) are using that language so they can say no to a user who really abuses the warranty and will be extremely reasonable in what they cover, but if the company chooses not to operate that way they can get out of covering almost anything with such a warranty.

As an example, I bought a piece of luggage from a high-end luggage company with a much touted "lifetime warranty" against defects in workmanship and materials. I bought it when my previous suitcase had a catastrophic failure on the way to my rental car at the start of a 3-week international business trip and it was my 3rd suitcase in 3 years so I walked into a luggage store and asked what they had that would be more durable. I ponied up about 4 times the amount I had spent on a one-year suitcase. To give credit, it was more durable but after about 5 years it had accumulated enough annoying little issues that it was time to take advantage of the "lifetime warranty".

Off to the luggage store to buy the next size down (which I wanted anyway) and get a box to ship the suitcase in. Defects all listed on the company's warranty form. As these warranties usually require, I paid the shipping to send it. About a month later I get a letter from the company saying that the problems were all due to wear and tear or abuse and weren't covered. Oddly enough, the one item that they were willing to cover was the one that I would have agreed was just wear and tear - the wheel assembly was showing definite signs of wear but still worked fine. The store clerk had pointed out the wear and suggested I add it so as not to send the suitcase in again when the wheels fail.

I call up the company and here is how it goes:

Rep: The warranty is for defects in materials and workmanship. Defects in materials and workmanship normally show up in the first 6 to 9 months. You have had this suitcase for years so these problems are normal wear and tear or abuse.

Me: (incredulous) So when you said "lifetime warranty" you really meant 6 to 9 months? What is the point of a lifetime warranty if you aren't going to cover problems after 9 months.

Well, after more back and forth along those lines and asking to talk to a supervisor and being willing to talk at them until they got more agreeable, I got them to cover most of the stuff and paid for one item.

The moral of the story - if the warranty excludes "normal wear and tear" you can't count on it to cover anything beyond infant mortality. If it excludes "abuse" I guess they could even claim that an early failure is due to abuse.

post script: After a lot more years, the suitcase has again accumulated several problems - one of them a recurrence of one of the earlier problems and I'm trying to decide whether it is worth sending it in again - not looking forward to having to bully them into fixing it.


On April 17, 2007 at 01:47 AM, cloud_swift said...
Subject: Re: Calphalon
GaryProtein wrote:

The Anolon Professional (I believe no longer available, but with the same surface as the "Advanced" line but with a different handle, Berdes Signocast were very good and similar in all respects, but did not clean as well or brown as well as Swiss Diamond. The Anolon Titanium browned better than the Anolon Professional and Berdes and is more durable than those two, but did not clean as easily. The Calphalon browned well but did not clean easily and was not durable. The Calphalon is also a thinner pan, and I'll say I liked that one the least.

I couldn't understand why Calphalon was consistently getting comments that it wasn't heavy enough when my Calphalon pans are quite heavy. I wouldn't want them any heavier. My 10" skillet is ~2.75 lb. Then I went to the Calphalon website and found that they no longer have the Professional line that I bought - only Calphalon One Infused Anodized - they don't say what it is infused with.

I guess I'll have to find something else if I need more pans. I hate non-stick since I'm not willing to baby it and I find anodized or stainless steel or well seasoned non-stainless steel easy enough to use and clean.


On April 17, 2007 at 11:03 PM, GaryProtein said...
I believe "infused" anodized has to do with the aluminum substrate preparation, which may involve etching or other process that roughens the surface of the pan, making for a deeper "infusion" of the anodize into the parent metal of the pan which makes it more durable and longer lasting.


On April 25, 2007 at 07:24 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Ameriware is excellent cookware. I bought a set from the Post Exchange when I was in the military about 5 or 6 years ago. It is an excellent buy. The only problem I have had with it is that my mother-in-law's drunk of a boyfriend came to my house and scratched up one of my pans by ccoking in it with a fork. He was obviously drunk at the time, since everybody knows Ameri-ware doesn't stick, so you only need to use a fork in it if you are an idiot. I am also pretty sure that he had to apply a fair degree of force in order to scratch up my pan like he did. Obviosly, my mother-in-law's drunk boyfreind isn't allowed at my house any more. Remarkably, this pan still cooks well and doesnt stick, even though it is scratched up and not as aestetically pleasing as I would prefer. I learned two lessons: Hide the good stuff when your drunk in-laws come to visit, and buy one quality product today so that you won't have to buy more in the future. Also, cooking with Ameri-ware is just plain easier than cooking with other pots and pans that I have had over the years. My wife has alot of other pots and pans, but I never cook with any of them because these are so much better.


On May 14, 2007 at 10:55 PM, McBride (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Pans
I purchased a set of Ameriware Pans from Costco over two years ago. I have been completely satisfied with every pan. They perform just as the sales pitch claimed; they are attractive, and they clean up easily. (I replaced a set of waterless anodized aluminum pans that I had purchased in the 70s.) I enjoy cooking and believe you need good "tools" to do a top rate job.


On August 28, 2007 at 07:48 AM, Canada TOO (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I, too, have been impressed at our local Costco with Ameriware Cookware. I've read many of the posts and have to say I am confused as anyone. I would like to know about their non-stick substance and whether it is Teflon disguised.

I did check the NSF and found all the Ameriware (Vollrath, I believe) -- all 32 pieces -- certified.

I'll be honest: just knowing that the cookware is Made in Wisconsin instead of China where everything else is produced (badly) made me very inclined to invest in at least the Chicken Fryer. I will keep surfing the Internet for answers to the non-stick question.


On August 29, 2007 at 04:02 AM, shorton (guest) said...
Subject: Princess House Stainless Steel
Princess House stainless steel is the best. I love all the sizes, beauty, and they are non-stick.


On September 01, 2007 at 11:19 PM, CQE Chef said...
I can't emphasis enough the importance of good tempered, carbon-steel knives - they don't have to be German, but two of the best brands are (and are expensive). Many people end up with too many knives, spending over $2000 for a collection of blades that, for the most part, won't be touched.

You really only need the following:

Santoku chef knife
bread knife
medium knife
carving fork


You'll find that you end up using the santoku chef knife about 95% of the time - long and medium kitchen knives are helpful, but you'll quickly find out that if you have a really good chef knife you won't use anything else.


On December 28, 2007 at 03:48 PM, Jerry (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware fry pan
I purchased an 8" Ameriware fry pan that is now 5 years old. I use the pan about three times a week and cook everything from stirfries to omellets in it. It has one small scratch that my son put in the pan from cutting a steak in the pan. Other than that the pan has held up to what the salesman has stated. It is by far the best pan I have ever purchased. I found your web site serching for a 11" wok to purchase from Ameriware. Just my two cents.


On January 11, 2008 at 11:08 PM, latino (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware
Do not buy Ameriware frying pans. The price is ridiculous. The VP of the company has a serious attitude when the products need to be replaced. Way better off with T-fal and get the same results. :angry:


On February 19, 2008 at 08:11 PM, Edward (guest) said...
Subject: still good
I've had the pans now for about 2 years (see my previous post), and they are still holding up. The outsides are a bit dirty from sticking food, but the pans are good. we only cook about 3 or 4 times a month, but are still happy with them.


Oh, and the character confirmation thing here is funny :P


On August 11, 2008 at 12:01 PM, LOKO (guest) said...
Subject: Titanware cookware
My wife and I just bought a set of Titanware cookware at Sam's Club. It is titanium-based and has the NSF seal. Also comes with a 30 year warranty. We were impressed with the demo, and the price -- only $288 for a 12-pc set.

After reading through this post, it sounds like it is extremely similar, if not identical to, the Ameriware/Vollrath brand. And, like others on this thread, I'm concerned about the manufacturing process and use of perfluorochemicals -- PFC's or PTFE's.

Unfortunately I can find absolutely no information on the Titanware brand (other than their own web site). Nothing on BBB.org or NSF.org, and almost no hits via Google search. I think the cookware is good, but I do not like the fact that I can find NO information on this brand or company. Like others have mentioned, it makes an otherwise appealing "quality" product look like a scam. And no one wants to be scammed.

Does anyone know anything about Titanware, or if they operate under a different name? Thanks!


On August 21, 2008 at 07:00 PM, Pete Martin (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware - try to get them to call back!
I have to agree with some on the forum regarding Ameriware's lack of response. I called them the other day to ask about buildup on my pans that I can't scrub out and it's causing things to stick.

I too bought mine from Costco about 3-4 years ago. Great up to that point. Even seasoning the pans didn't prevent this ultimate buildup, so I'm not sure what to do about it. Haven't go the receipt anymore :(

Just my 2 cents.


On August 25, 2008 at 09:08 AM, Don (guest) said...
Subject: Pro-HG Vollrath pans
We have owned a full set of these pans for around 5 years and wanted a few more individual ones. We love them. They were being sold at the state fair here and when we got home, I wanted to see if the price was comparable. That is when I found this site. In short summary:
1. The "no Teflon" sales angle is a stretch because they are not using specifically the Teflon brand of chemical, but they are using something that is almost the same, and thus has the same issues. The ceramic and titanium components seem accurate and appear to be what makes the pseudo Teflon material more durable.
2. Do not use metal utensils. You will scratch it. They do however have much better scratch resistance than any other pan I have ever owned. The few scratches that we do have do not seem to negatively affect the non stick ability.
3. The set of utensils they sell are also very good, and are better than what you will find at the local grocery store.
4. The lids are a waste of time. They stain, are hard to hold, and don't vent very well. I use normal lids from other pans.
5. The pans get daily use, and are washed in the dishwasher, leaving the rubber covers on and the handles raised a bit to prevent water from collecting. There seems to be no rust or slim under them. The instructions say to re-season them if cleaned in a dishwasher. I use oil and/or butter in just about everything, so that isn't a problem. I suspect that if I just threw in an egg without butter, it would stick.
6. If you can buy these pans through Costco, do so, as their return policy is the best. As to the 25 year guarantee, it doesn't cover normal wear and tear, scratches, massive overheating or anything else that is user caused.
7. Don't clean these in the oven using the oven's self clean feature!!!

I am still a bit bummed out because I thought they were made of some space age high tech ceramic, but turned out to be made with a Teflon similar substance. I will now tell friends to buy them, in that they are the best darn TEFLON pans you will ever own. Aside from the sarcasm, I really will keep these. There are very good pans when treated kindly. Now I just need to go find out if the price I paid at the fair was fair.


On September 10, 2008 at 09:51 PM, guest (guest) said...
Just wanted to thank all of you for all of your comments and research. I bought the large ameriware frying pan and think that it is a fabulous cooking pan. Unfortunately I was lead to beleive that there was no PTFE. Having now realized that there is...thanks to some of you, I will return it to Costco as it is simply not good for your health. I do have a similiar pan with the titanium/ ceramic that I purchased through Pampered Chef. Fantastic , more expensive..I will find out if it has PTFE in the coating and get back to you all


On October 11, 2008 at 09:43 PM, an anonymous reader said...
guest wrote:
Just wanted to thank all of you for all of your comments and research. I bought the large ameriware frying pan and think that it is a fabulous cooking pan. Unfortunately I was lead to beleive that there was no PTFE. Having now realized that there is...thanks to some of you, I will return it to Costco as it is simply not good for your health. I do have a similiar pan with the titanium/ ceramic that I purchased through Pampered Chef. Fantastic , more expensive..I will find out if it has PTFE in the coating and get back to you all



haha.. seems like a nice attempt to market Pampered Chef. =P

I have the pizza stone, but I am thinking about the Ameriware from Costco


On October 24, 2008 at 06:10 AM, Guest-Costco Lover (guest) said...
Oh my god this is confusing. Regardless of the potential health hazard, I just want to know if the non-stick surface lasts on the Vollrath set. Some say it holds up for a few years at least, some says it's no better than a cheap non-stick pan and some are probably so afraid of the health concerns they never use them if they even bought them.

Would the people who are saying they stick after a year please say what type of utensils they used in the pan? Would be people that love these things please come forward. Would the chemists please state up front whether you've used the product or not and how they know which chemicals are used for which product. Thanks to the posts that have done this, we need more like them.

Just don't know what to believe and logically I should just avoid the set. The problem is I wanna believe there's a durable non-stick pan out there. But I've never read such a mixed set of reviews in my life. Can anyone build a consensus here?


On October 24, 2008 at 02:01 PM, Dilbert said...
......Can anyone build a consensus here?

the thread goes back three years - so I think you are seeing some reasonable representation of user experience - both good and bad.

example: had them two years...we cook 2 or 3 times a _month_
hmm . . . . I cook 2 or 3 times a day

your mileage may vary, as they say.

I have had expensive non-sticks and cheapie non-sticks. I've opted to stick with the cheapies that I replace in 18-30 months when they get to the "oops it's gone sticky" stage.

I did read one comment of interest in another thread - powdered dish washing detergents contain silica granules (silica is aka sand) which can micro-scratch the non-stick surface. that 'statement' is supported by my own experience. if it can't handle the dish washer, it doesn't get used in this household - and over time what I observe is a fine etching of the non-stick.

with regard to health concerns, snake oil sales pitches aside, the Environmental Working Group is one of the more outspoken - and credible - organizations on the topic. they do not suggest 'outlawing' the use of PTFE coatings - but they do suggest some sensible guidelines.
see http://www.ewg.org/node/22396


On October 31, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Guest (guest) said...
Subject: Titanium/Iron non stick.
Well, I was at a home show last year and saw this demo on a new nonstick method that got my interest. I don't remember the brand name but these pans were made from cast iron and titanium. no additional surface material was put on these. No teflon.

I've had it (bought only one pan: it was about $180) for a year now and my only complaint was that it's rather heavy. It's pretty thick and has no rivets on the inside of the pan. This thing was made in Germany and they claim it's the last pan you'll ever buy. At the price they wanted, it better be.

But i've actually tried to scratch it. (Hey I'm an engineer, I'll test things).
Couldn't scratch it.

cooks well. still doesn't stick and I 've been using it once a day at least.
Gimme ten years and I'll write a better review. <smiles>

tom


On December 05, 2008 at 11:51 PM, Guest (guest) said...
Subject: Titanware cookware
Anybody know anything about the Titanware? I see one post asking the same thing, and I too, have surfed the web and can find no information on it other than from their own web site. I'm looking at it at Sam's club and it sure seems appealing -- both price-wise and the promise of no PFC's, etc.


On December 06, 2008 at 02:00 PM, Dilbert said...
not sure where the "no PFC" or no teflon thing came in. that promise is not on the website so far as I could find - it is non-stick, and it's only oven safe up to 500'F (hmmm, sure sounds like teflon....)

made in china, apparently marketed by:
http://www.findownersearch.com/brand/4840857/
which is primarily a toy supplier

you'll notice that for all the hype, they actually do not tell you what the "non-stick" is - the question is cleverly evaded at every turn.... wonder why? they don't even claim some magic new compound just invented on Alpha Centauri and available only thru...

if you research analon non-stick you'll find:

"Much of what is labeled titanium cookware is actually aluminum cookware that used titanium in the hard-anodizing process or in a ceramic-titanium plasma that is fused to the surface to form an abrasion-resistant matrix for a nonstick coating."


On December 16, 2008 at 04:00 AM, Paul (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware, pro-hg by vollrath
I have read with interest the posts by others. We bought our pro-hg cookware two years ago. It is just a non-stick today as it was the day we bought it. Our experience is that it is vastly superior to other non-stick pans. It heats evenly, and clean up is wonderful. So far we have had no mar problems with the cooking surface (although we do try to be careful with it). If cared for properly, I wouldn't be surprised if the cooking surface will last 25 years! We have had some pealing from the back side of the pan, but where it counts, it is holding up great.
Paul in Atlanta


On January 17, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Wont be scammed (guest) said...
Subject: Returned Ameriware cookware to Costco
My wife and I were treated to an impressive demonstration of the Ameriware cookware at Costco and decided to buy a set after we were assured that there was "No Teflon". (We have birds)

After getting it home and doing some internet research it became apparent that there WAS in fact teflon on the pans (or a similar compound). We took the set back immediately since the entire reason we bought it was because of their claim of no Teflon.

A few months later I saw another demonstration at Costco and challenged the salesman. He again assured me that there was no Teflon and told me that they use a "patented" coating that is not Teflon or PTFE. When I asked him for the patent number he was not able to respond.

We kept the plastic utensils for our trouble.


On January 27, 2009 at 09:23 PM, Ross (guest) said...
Subject: Teflon
It is nice to see all of this great information being shared over such a long period of time! I represent DuPont, and would like to help clarify some of the myths around Teflon-coated cookware. In the 40-plus year history of cookware coated with Teflon non-stick, there have been no reported cases of consumers contracting adverse health effects as a result of in-home normal cooking use. Cooks in more than 40 countries around the world have purchased billions of pots and pans with DuPont non-stick coatings for home and commercial use. These conclusions are supported by extensive scientific and toxicology studies.

Particles from Teflon branded coatings in cookware are not harmful, even if ingested. Confidence in the safety and performance of DuPont non-stick coatings is based on more than 40 years of laboratory testing and use in home and commercial kitchens. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the use of fluoropolymer coatings for cookware. Teflon coatings for cookware are fluoropolymers.

Please feel free to visit http://www.teflon.com for more information, recipes, and other useful resources.


On January 27, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Debbie (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
Hi y'all,
I've been using the Ameriware sets since 1999 and I'm still impressed. It's still non-stick, it still doesn't warp after being immediately washed in cold water after it's been cooking, and it hasn't chipped (chip on the inside that is, the outside has a little chipping of the color but I don't eat from the outside). I use my pieces everyday or at least 5 days a week and I love that I can brown my meats then turn them into stew in the same pot so needless to say, my favorite is the dutch oven. And who doesn't like a pot that doesn't require scrubbing?


On February 26, 2009 at 06:46 PM, DFURTD (guest) said...
Subject: RETURNS
I have had the cookware for years and when the coating goes away I sent it off and I got a new pan. The problem I have is I used the one waranty card I had and now I need to know where to send my pan to have it replaced.

Please, if anyone has the address let me know


On February 26, 2009 at 07:17 PM, Dilbert said...
a simple web search turns up:

For Ameriware, Pro HG and Pro HG Preferred,please contact:
Cooks Warehouse Inc.
2504 north ontario street
Burbank, CA 91504
Phone # 818-556-2740
Website www.onlinecookery.com

For Platinum, please contact:
GMF Corp
PO Box 231174
Encinatis, CA 92023
Phone # 435-518-1029

the search also turns up hundreds of consumer complaints/horror stories, so,,,, good luck!


On March 06, 2009 at 03:47 AM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Re: Teflon
Ross wrote:
It is nice to see all of this great information being shared over such a long period of time! I represent DuPont, and would like to help clarify some of the myths around Teflon-coated cookware. In the 40-plus year history of cookware coated with Teflon non-stick, there have been no reported cases of consumers contracting adverse health effects as a result of in-home normal cooking use. Cooks in more than 40 countries around the world have purchased billions of pots and pans with DuPont non-stick coatings for home and commercial use. These conclusions are supported by extensive scientific and toxicology studies.

Particles from Teflon branded coatings in cookware are not harmful, even if ingested. Confidence in the safety and performance of DuPont non-stick coatings is based on more than 40 years of laboratory testing and use in home and commercial kitchens. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the use of fluoropolymer coatings for cookware. Teflon coatings for cookware are fluoropolymers.

Please feel free to visit http://www.teflon.com for more information, recipes, and other useful resources.


Yes, Ross from DuPont, but since your coatings release known carcinogens if the pan gets too hot, why take the chance? More information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teflon

For my money, stainless steel, caste iron and ceramic cookware (eg Emile Henry) are non-toxic and have stood the test of time. I'll "stick" with them, if you'll excuse the pun! ;)


On March 09, 2009 at 07:06 PM, Guest (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I feel bad for all the people that wrote nasty reviews about
Ameriware. You can go on using the 25.00 Teflon pans that chip away.
I've had my Ameriware for over 2 years now. Use my fry pans daily as I have three sizes and not a scratch...no flaking of the coating...Aboslutely love them and couldn't cook without them. You don't know what you are missing.!


On April 05, 2009 at 06:28 PM, JOD (guest) said...
Subject: triple coated
while trying to find some RE to "triple coated QT tm Quantanium(R)" camping cookware by Texsport ........
I finally saw RE to this blog and proceeded to follow this Ameriware discussion..... which sounds like a very similar coating process, and thereby I would conclude it includes PTFE as a component.... close enough for my standards/suspicions....

Also, I would assume this is a similar process in the "Black Diamond" brand nonstick coatings, just embedding diamond dust in PTFE....

I had seen references to hard anodized aluminum non-stick surfaces, but not finding clear descriptions of such utensils, have not been too sure of the cooking surface... and have seen a couple comments, "that not that nonstick".... so botom line I guess, is pass the lard!!!

enjoyed the chat and insight... thanks


On April 19, 2009 at 08:07 AM, former-ameriware-salesman (guest) said...
Subject: this stuff sucks
i sold this stuff, and i'm sorry if you bought it from me.

these pots and pans are fine at first, but after 8 months of regular use, the non-stick has become almost useless. (and the "non stick exterior" is total BS)

remember the egg trick that made you buy the set? now i have problems getting eggs out of the pan at all. the handles rust, and the bottoms are irritating to keep clean.

I'm very unhappy with this cookware, and i'm even unhappier to have had to work for the morons that run this company.


On April 26, 2009 at 02:21 AM, Dingo (guest) said...
Subject: Re: Titanware cookware
Guest wrote:
Anybody know anything about the Titanware? I see one post asking the same thing, and I too, have surfed the web and can find no information on it other than from their own web site. I'm looking at it at Sam's club and it sure seems appealing -- both price-wise and the promise of no PFC's, etc.


Doing research on that now. TitanWare is owned by Westminster Inc out of Atlanta, GA. The company President of Westminster is Max Ker-Seymer, who may be the same person involved (in some way) with the band called The Who. Westminster, Inc, is a FDA-registered company, but has no FDA-registered products on the market, according to
http://www.zapconnect.com/companies/index.cfm/fuseaction/companies_detail/ere...tml
BBB.org has a profile for Westminster, Inc, but not Titanware. Westminster, Inc, is not a BBB member, and BBB has no complaints about them over the past 36 months.

The salesman's pitch was all about Teflon, not PTFE. He even stated that Teflon was a brand-name. My concern isn't whether or not the pan is going to kill me in my sleep - my concern is whether the pan works as advertised. The salesman's job is to SELL the pan. The consumer's job is to weed out the BS from the facts. So no, these pans do NOT have Teflon - otherwise they'd be in deep doo-doo. But they may very well have a PTFE coating on a ceramic foundation above a titanium-treated aluminum base.

That won't affect how my egg tastes, other than it will still be warm if I decide to clean up before I eat it...


On May 17, 2009 at 11:34 PM, tiny (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware
I purchased a set of Ameriware at a local Air Force Base. It was a lot of money, but I was sold on the product. Two years later I am more sold. This is simply one of the best products I have ever purchased. If you really want to give a great wedding present, buy them Ameriware...it will last three times longer than the average marriage these days!! lol


On June 03, 2009 at 01:38 PM, Guest (guest) said...
Subject: Titanware
I bought a Titanware cooking set (12 pc.) from Sam’s over the weekend and also have the same thought that most of the people posted here. Does the cookware’s titanium coating safer than Teflon? Does the pans last longer than what it is promised?

It seems the Titanware is a no-name (unknown) company and the product ownership percentages are small. I really don’t have the peace of mind but only time will tell.


On June 28, 2009 at 02:06 AM, Scammed (guest) said...
Subject: Re: Titanware cookware
LOKO wrote:
My wife and I just bought a set of Titanware cookware at Sam's Club. It is titanium-based and has the NSF seal. Also comes with a 30 year warranty. We were impressed with the demo, and the price -- only $288 for a 12-pc set.

After reading through this post, it sounds like it is extremely similar, if not identical to, the Ameriware/Vollrath brand. And, like others on this thread, I'm concerned about the manufacturing process and use of perfluorochemicals -- PFC's or PTFE's.

Unfortunately I can find absolutely no information on the Titanware brand (other than their own web site). Nothing on BBB.org or NSF.org, and almost no hits via Google search. I think the cookware is good, but I do not like the fact that I can find NO information on this brand or company. Like others have mentioned, it makes an otherwise appealing "quality" product look like a scam. And no one wants to be scammed.

Does anyone know anything about Titanware, or if they operate under a different name? Thanks!


I realize the post is a little dated but this info may help someone.

Titanware is coated with QUANTANIUM. You can even see it on their website in pictures. Quantanium manufacturer (easily found on the net) has confirmed that Quantanium branded coating is made with PTFE (aka Teflon). Any claims that Titanware / Quantanium does not contain PTFE / Teflon are blatant lies.

Now, Titanware does not claim anything either way on their website. They are very careful not to mention Teflon or PTFE at all on it. However, their sales demonstrators at Sam's clubs, etc. say that the cookware contains NO Teflon/ PTFE.

Now, either they are outright liars or themselves misinformed. The fact remains that since the manufacturer of the coating confirmed (you can still find the info on the net, search for Quantanium PTFE ) it contains PTFE, then it does.

This has nothing to do with "PTFE good/bad for you"by the way, that is a separate matter. However, when they lie to you to sell you the pans by claiming they are something that they are not, that is just wrong. Don't get scammed.

Here is a link for you to get you started:
http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/community/showthread.php?t=17376


On July 15, 2009 at 07:06 AM, Need help! (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware's website...
I accidently burnt the plastic handle of a set of Ameriware pans at myfriend's house and need to replace it, but I am leary of their website - has anybody ordered anything off of their website and had a problem with their credit card?

thank you!!


On August 02, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Pam (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware and Titanware
I have had Ameriware pans for several years, at least 5. I purchased them at a Home Show. I love them! They really do live up the demos. I have a second home that I need cookware for, so being at Sam's, I saw the Titanware. It looks just like the Ameriware, and sounds like it as well. It is lower priced than what I purchased the Ameriware for, so I decided to purchase it.

I am not sure of the whole Teflon stuff, but I can say the demo on cooking was what sold me. I am a life long user, as it is wonderful. Believe the cooking demo!


On August 03, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Vicki (guest) said...
Subject: Ameriware Sautee pans
These Ameriware pans are really good - go get 'em. I bought an 8" and a 12" at - NOT COSTCO - but Smart and Final -both for about $22. I seasoned the pans according to the instructions on the label, and I'm really happy with these pans. The cook surface heats up beautifully without oil, then before adding the food, I use a little butter - which sizzles just like Julia Child's demos, or olive oil. Admittedly, I haven't used them for the full 25 years, having purchased within the last 6 months, but I wouldn't want another moderate to medium high sautee/omelet pan. Really high heat frying needs a well seasoned cast iron pan. That's my 2 cents plain! :D :)


On September 13, 2009 at 02:03 AM, guest (guest) said...
Subject: Re: Titanium/Iron non stick.
I think the pan is called Titanium Exclusive. I really want to know what the non-stick coating is. The demo at the fair was impressive, but the pans were really costly!

I got the Vollrath pro-hg from the LA fair (got a lot of extra pieces to sweeten the deal), and after reading all the info here... i'm feeling a little ripped off. Some issues it appears have to do with seasoning (heating the metal to expand, put oil to fill the pores and create a seal) the pans, so I'm waiting right now (left a message with Vollrath requesting their recommendations for seasoning the pans). There is a lot of good advice http://www.titaniumexclusive.com/tips.html

It seems there's a "right" temperature where you're supposed to toss your food in. If you use the incorrect oils (flashpoints are too low http://missvickie.com/howto/spices/oils.html) the oil will burn and leave a residue which might contribute to nonstick not working.

It also seems there's a special way to clean pans, while they're still warm, so that the oil residue will wash off.

I'm concerned with the PTFE/POA whatever.

Just wish i had purchased all this at COSTCO for the return. *sigh*

Guest wrote:
Well, I was at a home show last year and saw this demo on a new nonstick method that got my interest. I don't remember the brand name but these pans were made from cast iron and titanium. no additional surface material was put on these. No teflon.

I've had it (bought only one pan: it was about $180) for a year now and my only complaint was that it's rather heavy. It's pretty thick and has no rivets on the inside of the pan. This thing was made in Germany and they claim it's the last pan you'll ever buy. At the price they wanted, it better be.

But i've actually tried to scratch it. (Hey I'm an engineer, I'll test things).
Couldn't scratch it.

cooks well. still doesn't stick and I 've been using it once a day at least.
Gimme ten years and I'll write a better review. <smiles>

tom


On September 15, 2009 at 07:04 AM, LovesToCook (guest) said...
Subject: NSF certification for Titanware
Like others in this thread, I purchased Titanware cookware set from Sam's. While the Titanware web page offers detailed information, I was also wondering whether I should be concerned since I couldn't find any user reviews or product info when I Googled, Froogled, or even Ebayed the search word "Titanware" or "Titan ware".

I could return the set - I mean, non-stick properties are great - but lots of products out there are non-stick nowadays. The main reason I purchased the cookware is to be able to cook food without having any worries about the bad elements in Teflon or aluminum contaminating the food served to my family. Plus, $288 is not a bad deal considering you REALLY can't find the product anywhere else for less...haha. The product had the NSF label on it, and that does stand for something. I was able verify, via the NSF web page, the cookware is NSF approved, but it wasn't a very straightfoward find.

To verify your Titanware cookware items are NSF certified, access http://www.nsf.org/certified/food/. Enter 'cookware' in the 'Product Search' box. A list of cookware manufacturing companies (not the brand names) displays. On the bottom of each Titanware piece, you have an item number, e.g. TW10.0FP. You can CTRL+f to find the item number on the page or look for 'WESTMINSTER, INC.' which is also engraved on the bottom of each piece. The item number of each Titanware piece is listed under the "WESTMINSTER, INC." heading on the web page, and the web page does indicate that product numbers are maintained daily.

Hope this offers some reassurance. :)


On October 25, 2009 at 01:29 AM, Previously Deleted Guest! (guest) said...
Subject: Titanware
I'm really surprised at what I found here. I had a reason to come back here to look at a post we'd sent to this forum in late Dec 2008 concerning Titanware and whether it contains PTFE. In the post I detailed conversations/emails I had with a home office representative of Titanware, aafter having purchased it in Sam's Club. He flatly stated there was no PTFE in Titanware. Yet - at the time - the parent company's web site itself (Whitford) talked about PTFE in Titanware. The home office rep challenged me in an email to provide him with references where I'd heard that Titanware has PTFE, and I supplied him web sites as well as pages on their own web site, that confirmed it (not opinion sites such as this, but industry/manufacturer sites). I never heard back from him. But what DID happen was that the links I sent him in my email to back up my statement about PTFE in Titanware - suddenly disappeared from the web altogether (including Whitford's own site). I never got another response from them (though I certainly kept my emails as well as the response I got from him before he refused to respond).

After 5 months we ended up returning the Titanware set to Sam's (they were great - no hassle, and a full refund) because of the coating coming off, not because of the price we'd paid. Up to that point we still believed we probably had a better quality cookware than what Sam's was selling for half the price, even though we had found out it also had PTFE in it (see below).

Following is the next-to-last paragraph from my Dec 08 post on this forum that has since been removed for an unknown reason (like the other references I'd found and supplied to Whitford/Titanware).

"I've done considerable research on PTFE, and we've concluded that it isn't - in itself - dangerous if used according to instructions (i.e. <500 degrees). So when we returned it to Sam's, I immediately purchased their house-brand set at 50% of the cost of Titanware. Interestingly, we've never used anything EXCEPT the supplied plastic utensils on the Titanware in the 5 months we owned it. Yet by the time we returned it, one of the LESS-used pieces actually had a few scratches that showed small amounts of the metal underneath the non-stick coating. That was our last straw."

UPDATE: We've now had the Members Mark (Sam's brand) cookware for just short of a year - twice as long as we had the Titanware - and there's virtually no sign of wear in it at all. It's turned out far better for us than the Titanware, and at half the cost. And by the way - there was another Titanware salesman in Sam's a few months back, and he was touting the safety of their coating. He was very careful not to mention PTFE or Teflon in his presentation I noticed, but the implication was very, very clear - that there was no such ingredient in THEIR product. When he was free for a moment, I told him of my experience and findings - even on the Whitford web site - and he became vocally angry, flat out denying any such thing and stopping just short of calling me a liar. I named the name of the person from Whitford whose email I still have, and the conversation basically ended at that point.

Make your own decisions. Just be aware that for some reason, even this site seems to have controversial things about Whitford/Titanware mysteriously vanish. And I honestly can't think of a reason for that, since this would seem to be an independent site. I hadn't ever bothered to come back to look here since posting the comment almost a year ago. But now I think I'll check back from time to time to see what happens with this one.... :(


On October 26, 2009 at 03:35 AM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: Titanware
Previously Deleted Guest! wrote:
Just be aware that for some reason, even this site seems to have controversial things about Whitford/Titanware mysteriously vanish. And I honestly can't think of a reason for that, since this would seem to be an independent site. I hadn't ever bothered to come back to look here since posting the comment almost a year ago. But now I think I'll check back from time to time to see what happens with this one.... :(

We don't delete or edit any comments unless they are blatant examples of spam or extremely offensive/hateful remarks. There are plenty of opinions posted by readers that I do not agree with, but I do not touch the comments.


On January 24, 2010 at 03:46 AM, Karl (guest) said...
Subject: My ameriware experience
About 8 years ago I purchased the full set of Ameriware and a few extra pans as well from a seller at a local military base. About 2 years into my ownership several stopped non-sticking after I burned a few things. I called Cooks warehouse to rteturn them. They promptly send my pans back and they refused to exchange them. So much for the twenty five year warranty. Called it normal wear. I tossed those three. I think the warranty is if they are sitting on the shelf and you don't use them they should be OK. Since then, of the six remaining pans, two have minimal non stick properties and once has begun chipping and blistering off the coating. I stopped using this one altogether. The other three are hardly used and seem to be OK. Truth is I really liked these pans while they were holding up. They were great. I wish I had purchasd them from costco. But there is a new huckster at my local base who says she will replace the ones I have if I bring them in. I'll find out tomorrow. I relayed my story to her. She said, not to call but just send the pans back to Vollrath and they will replace them. Anyway, thats my experience with the pans and company


On February 08, 2010 at 05:14 PM, Carol (guest) said...
Subject: Vollrath/Ameriware pans
I purchased my pans at Sam's Club about 5 years ago. The salesman included a set of hard plastic utensils to use with them. It took two times of using the included utensils to discover why he was using the soft spatulas. Wood and hard plastic utensils will mar the non-stick surface, not scratch, just mark. I immediately started using the soft type spatulas for stirring in the pots, pans, and skillets and have had no new marks. The other killer of these pans is using high heat. That is a NO, NO. They heat very nicely on med-high. I like my pans for stove top as well as the oven. They are the only set I have so they are used a lot and hold up well except for the handles which have a tendency to rust under the rubber covers if there is any kind of imperfection in the metal. I have removed all of them and crocheted handle mitts which I use instead.

That is my two-cents, hope it helps. :)


On April 24, 2010 at 05:24 PM, sharonF (guest) said...
Subject: ameriware comment
The Ameriware cookware I purchased at Costco is adequate - the actual pots, that is. The lids are disgusting. Flat lids - don't allow for enough space for foods that cook down, collect condensation and then drip all over, hard to clean and to polish, vents that self-vent especially when you don't want them to do so. I have brought my old cookware lids back into the house because Ameriware lids are so bad. I would never recommend the product and would return the set I have if Ameriware would take it back. I phoned, received no answer for several weeks and finally got through - was told nothing could be return if it had been used. I guess I should have intuited that most lids are dome-shaped for a reason, but I didn't.

Stay away from Ameriware, unless you are prepared to deal with really awful lids.


On May 06, 2010 at 02:50 AM, Diane from Hawaii (guest) said...
Subject: Bad Pans
I bought a set for christmas, and tried to return it because I did not like it. Howard, the vice president, said I could not return it for that reason. I could replace it for another piece, but there would be no refund. I told him the pans were slopped and not flat, I did not like the handles that were suppose to be resistant to heat but were not, and that overall they were not worth the money. I told him I would try to get a refund from the NEX, where I bought it, and Howard said that he would call the store and tell them not to refund me. I later found out he was the vice president, what a jerk. Do Not Buy Ameriware. There are so many other pan sets out in this world. Don' do it!


On May 20, 2010 at 09:21 PM, Jeffray (guest) said...
Subject: can anyone provide assistance with this NSF dilemma?
Hello and good afternoon!

When I have a moment I would like to read [u:05b5a96f2b]ALL[/u:05b5a96f2b] of the posts concerning NSF certification.

In the meantime, I hope that there is someone out there that can shed some light on my issue concerning NSF. I recently purchased chocolate tempering machines that perform 3 functions. Primarily the machine is a tempering (pre-crystallization) chocolate and then filling the molds and on some machines vibrate the air bubbles out that form in the chocolate. I was/am planning on using the machines in my commercial kitchen however they are NOT NSF certified. The Environmental Health Department requested that the machines get NSF certified. My question is this. If the tempering machine manufacturers do not produce machines that are NSF certified how can every commercial kitchen in the US be certified by the Health Department? Having had a conversation with the folks at NSF their words were that they frown upon field representatives of "for profit" companies going out and making a visit to a commercial kitchen and having that piece of equipment labeled NSF (field labeling).
I think that foreign companies (in the case Belgium) do business in the US they should have to go through some type of scrutiny before they are able to sell their product here. I am now forced to come up with between 2 and 4 thousand dollars to have this piece of equipment labeled NSF. I do not think it is fair that the consumer of these types of products have to bear the costs in order to use them in a commercial setting. It is insane.
Ok, I feel a little better that I got this off my chest! Thanks for reading.


On May 20, 2010 at 09:31 PM, Dilbert said...
certified machines exist
http://www.sweetfountains.com/sales/catalog/_TEMPERING_MACHINES-p-1-c-277.html

with regard to forcing scrutiny to prevent 'victims' from 'victimizing' themselves, if you're setting up a commercial operation and have not taken great pains to become aware of the multitude of all kinds, shapes and sizes of state / local regulations and requirements, it's going to be a bumpy ride.


On November 30, 2012 at 04:17 AM, Guest (guest) said...
Subject: Just bought Ameriware set at Costco
I just finished reading about half of the latest comments regarding this cookware and related topics. I guess I can count myself among the people who believed that it was just better cookware made without the use of dangerous chemicals. The massive set I bought at costco cost almost $600 and was meant to replace all my old, and apparently more dangerous than I thought, non-stick. I did some "internet research" and found out quickly that teflon and similar non-stick cookware is just plain sketchy.
One site had this to say - "Though DuPont is quick to point out the safety of Teflon® and to distance it from the chemical PFOA, studies show Teflon® cookware releases PFOA when heated to 680°F (360°C). This temperature can be reached fairly quickly, for example, a forgotten pan is left empty preheating on a very hot burner. DuPont acknowledges this, but points out that this is incorrect use of the cookware." Just for reference, the average stove top reaches 500 F on high.
Another site said this - "Teflon is made from a synthetic fluoropolymer resin. Ti-2 contains synthetic fluoropolymers which are baked on the ceramin titanium base at very high temperatures. Does this make them different? Not at all. You're cooking with the same chemicals with the exception that the Ti-2 coating may have a tendency to flake less since it's much harder than their teflon counterparts. In the long-term, the damage to the environment and your health are the same." Ti-2 is just Ameriwares brand name for teflon. Then it goes on to say - "PFOA (Perfluorooctanoic Acid) is used as a necessary processing aid in the manufacture of all fluoropolymers. PFOA is a well known carcinogen that has been linked to cancer, birth defects and liver damage. In my opinion, any company that attempts to promote teflon generics that masquerade as safer products should be prosecuted." Whoa, its getting serious. Anyway, I read a bunch of other sites and none of them could say that an unmarked non-stick pan used at a appropriate temp would emit chemicals into your food. Do you care about your health, do you feel lucky, do you believe that big business has your best interests at heart?


On November 30, 2012 at 05:47 AM, Jim Cooley said...
huh? I think the smouldering Teflon has already done its damage...


On November 30, 2012 at 08:10 AM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: Just bought Ameriware set at Costco
Guest wrote:
I did some "internet research" and found out quickly that teflon and similar non-stick cookware is just plain sketchy.

There's a lot of pseudo-science information on the web about the healthfulness of all sorts of things ranging from Teflon to microwave ovens to sucralose. Most are based on scientific facts taken out of context (my favorite is that Splenda must be bad because it's almost like sugar but with chlorine and we all know that chlorine gas is what they use in gas chambers... which completely ignores the fact that chlorine is a natural part of most foods human have been enjoying since the beginning of history). PTFE is a safe product to use for cooking as long as you don't bring it's temperature up too high. Temperatures vary but in general you shouldn't heat it past 500°F. On a stove top, you pretty much have to leave an empty pan on high and walk away for a while to accomplish that. If you're doing that, then you need to not be cooking until you have the time or lack of distractions to focus on cooking or you might burn your house down.

Also, a gas range burns at over 3000F - not 500F. Depending on the pots you use, the size of the burners, distance from grate to burner, and length of time, you can get a pan well past 800F with a little determination. I've never taken a pan past that point as I did not want to reach the failure point of the pan (and therefore have to buy another one), but it seems to be possible to get pans to higher temperatures than that. Just don't use a non-stick for that and be safe (a piece of paper that falls onto a pan at that temperature will combust into an open flame).


On September 11, 2013 at 12:24 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Re: Vollrath/Ameriware pans
Carol wrote:
I purchased my pans at Sam's Club about 5 years ago. The salesman included a set of hard plastic utensils to use with them. It took two times of using the included utensils to discover why he was using the soft spatulas. Wood and hard plastic utensils will mar the non-stick surface, not scratch, just mark. I immediately started using the soft type spatulas for stirring in the pots, pans, and skillets and have had no new marks. The other killer of these pans is using high heat. That is a NO, NO. They heat very nicely on med-high. I like my pans for stove top as well as the oven. They are the only set I have so they are used a lot and hold up well except for the handles which have a tendency to rust under the rubber covers if there is any kind of imperfection in the metal. I have removed all of them and crocheted handle mitts which I use instead.

That is my two-cents, hope it helps. :)


Titanware purchased at Sams Club.. non stick failing after two years of daily usage.

About CfE Contact User Agreement FAQ's In the Press Write for CfE