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Preparation is also quite simplistic for an entree with such a grand reputation. In fact, with a couple tools, this dish is easier to prepare than any other special event food (roast duck, turkey). The items you'll need are a roasting pan (usually comes with your oven or you can get a large baking pan and a wire rack to place in it), a probe thermometer (like the Polder model that I use), some kitchen twine, and a pair of tongs.
Hmmm, now you need a standing rib roast (also known as prime rib even if the beef isn't prime quality). The term "standing" means that because the bones are included in the roast, the roast can stand by itself. A rib roast with the bones removed is commonly referred to as a rolled rib roast. My preference is for the standing variety because the bones provide additional flavoring to the roast. A rib roast comprises of seven ribs starting from the shoulder (chuck) down the back to the loin. Each rib feeds about two people, so if you have a party of eight, buy and cook a four rib roast. The rib roast closest to the loin is more tender than the rib roast nearest the chuck. This end is referred to as the small end rib roast or loin rib roast or sirloin tip roast. The chuck end of the rib roast is bigger and tougher and is sometimes referred to as a half standing rib roast or large end rib roast.
Depending on preference, you can dry age the roast for a few days to bring out additional flavor and produce a more buttery texture in the muscle (aging allows the natural enzymes to break down some of protein in the meat). Age the beef up to a week in the refrigerator by leaving it uncovered on a wire rack over a large pan to catch any drippings for at least a day and no more than seven days. When you are ready to cook the beef, trim off any dried pieces after the aging. It is common for a roast to lose about 10% to 15% of its weight during a week of aging.
Take the rib roast out of the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter for a couple hours to raise the roast temperature to near room temperature. To help cook the roast evenly, we'll need to tie the roast. Using kitchen twine, tie the roast parallel to the rib bones at least at each end. I usually tie between each pair of ribs. Heat the roasting pan or a separate pan on the stove until hot with a little oil. Place the roast on the pan and sear for three minutes on each side. Remove from heat and season heavily with salt and pepper. Place on the grill of your roasting pan or on a wire rack. Now stick the probe of your thermometer into the roast so that the probe is approximately in the middle of the roast (and not touching a bone). Position the pan on an oven rack in the lowest position of your preheated 200°F oven. Yes, 200°F. The low heat will evenly cook the roast so that most of the roast will be at the desired temperature. Cooking at a higher temperature will finish the roast faster, but you will probably result in well-done on the outside of the roast that gradually results in a medium-rare interior (if you are trying to cook a medium-rare roast). Roasting at 200°F will result in almost all the meat ending at medium-rare.
Set your thermometer for 130°F for a medium-rare roast (125°F for rare; 145°F for medium; any higher and it's overdone - you might as well be serving a cheaper piece of beef). When the roast is done (about 45 minutes per pound up to about 5 pounds - anything larger takes roughly 4 to 5 hours), remove from the oven, set the roast aside, and let it sit to redistribute juices for at least twenty minutes. This is a good time to make a jus from the drippings of the roast.
Pour off any extra grease that's collected in the pan. You can save this to make Yorkshire pudding if you wish. Now deglaze the pan by pouring in 1/2 cup beef broth and bring to a boil. After you've scraped off the bottom of your pan and mixed it into the jus, season with salt and pepper. Simple.
When slicing the roast, first cut the rib bones out and then lie the roast on the cut side to carve large slices off the roast.
When properly roasted, the medium-rare pink is uniform to the edges of the roast, giving the diner the maximum amount of tender, juicy beef per slice.Standing Rib Roast
| Preheat oven to 200°F (95°C) | |||
| 1 loin rib roast, trimmed & tied | sear | season | roast at 200°F (95°C) until 130°F (55°C) |
| salt | |||
| pepper | |||
Jus
| rib roast drippings | deglaze | bring to boil | season |
| 1/2 cup beef broth | |||
| salt | |||
| pepper | |||
Yorkshire pudding
| Preheat oven to 450°F (230°C) | |||||
| 1 cup all purpose flour | whisk | beat | pour mixture into pan | bake 450°F (230°F) 15 min. | bake 350°F (175°F) until golden brown (15 min.) |
| 1/2 tsp. salt | |||||
| 2 large eggs | whisk | ||||
| 1 cup whole milk | |||||
| 13 x 9 in. pan | 10 min. at 450°F | melt | |||
| 1/4 cup rib roast drippings or 4 Tbs. melted unsalted butter | |||||
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In my mind, a real engineer is capable of working with whatever is given to him. A good engineer might not do an exact sixteenth decimal place conversion, but a good engineer will know when a precise conversion is necessary and an imprecise one is acceptable. Most engineers are capable of working in whatever unit constraints are provided them and can think in US, metric, or SI. I have conversations with engineers from other countries routinely where we will both use inches, microns, degrees celcius, and pounds in the same conversation.
I happen to live (and cook) in the United States where we use a weird system involving seemlingly random and confusing units. So, I present my recipes with these units because I will be using these units when I cook.
Now scientists on the other hand are a different breed from engineers and will require SI units...
Also if you don't have dripping, use lard. Don't use butter.
I use a 250F oven.
I slice under the layer of fat that is traditional on the outside of the roast and slip slices of garlic clove between the fat and the meat. I also do this with any 'center' fat - pierce between the fat and the meat with a knife and slide in garlic.
Then I make a mix of herbs, cracked pepper, and course grain 'kosher' salt. I roll the meat in this mixture, creating a crust. Then I place it bones down into a baking dish and bake until medium rare.
I have made Yorkshire pudding in individual portions using a 12-portion muffin pan with 1 teaspoon of pan drippings/muffin cup per the Good Housekeeping cookbook recipe.
Great site, Michael!
My high school physics teacher would sometimes throw in problems using English units because he wanted the students to be able to solve problems using any kind of units, so he would probably agree with you here.
He did tell us a funny story of a one student who was against using English units. In protest, the student would convert any English units given to metric, solve the problem, then convert back to English units for the answer. =)
As an engineer one is prepared to work in either system, but that also depends on tool graduation. I always use the KISS principle to work, trying to get good results in a short time. Converting units from a system to another is time consuming, so is better for me to work with raw units, be those celsius, fahrenheit, kelvin or rankine.
This recipee also looks tasty, I'll try to try it before year's end.
keep it up, mike.
KISS: Keep It Simple & Stupid
(I have an enormous piece in my fridge right this minute, just waiting to be cooked and eaten!)
Mr. Cho, Merry Christmas to you and yours!
As an editor, I wish you would use the supercript o with F or C, with a space after the degrees number.
Also, what would help lots of us in uniformizing would be to use Tbsp for tablespoon and tsp for tsp. But this does not hurt one bit your excellent recipes.
Thanks!
Caroline
The cooking time is 3-4hours for the standing rib roast. If I dared to make it the night before, how could I re-heat it without ruining the rare-ness of it (the microwave cooks too well done from the inside out)
Any tips are appreciated - I am a first time S.R.R. cooker!! thanks
Your method specifies a far longer time per pound. How say you to Beard's time/pound? [I have not tried ANY low-heat method, only sear and temp reduce, etc]
Best regards & Happy Solstice: Nick F.
Your method specifies a far longer time per pound. How say you to Beard's time/pound?
My estimate of 45 minutes per pound comes from how long it takes my 200°F oven to bring an eight pound roast to an internal temperature of 130°F. I took the totla time and divided by eight pounds. This has held true for the last two roasts that I prepared. (Usually, I tell my guests to show up at a certain time and that dinner will be done when it's done. I start preparing the final touches of the other dishes when the roast is sitting at 125°F - the last few degrees always seem to take forever.)
The extra ten degrees may account of some of the time discrepancy, but I doubt that it would double the time. I don't know what to say except, in my experience it takes closer to 45 minutes per pound to bring the roast to medium rare. Of course, I've always suspected that the minutes per pound estimate is a really bad hack as it's unlikely that the time it takes to heat a volume of meat is linear and predictable (what if my roast has more surface area than your roast?)... but that means a series of experiments that I cannot afford (both from a time and a money stand point) at this time in my life...
Your site is a total pleasure. Nick F.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I recommend you go to Bed Bath & Beyond or your local home kitchen supply store and buy a probe thermometer like this Polder model. Thrust the probe into the thickest part of the roast (parallel to the direction of how you will slice it in order to minimize the chance of having slices with holes in them later). Program the thermometer to go off before your desired temperature (taking into account carryover temperature during the resting period). With a 250°F oven, I recommend setting the thermometer to 128°F. After the thermometer goes off, pull the roast out (leave the probe in) and tent with aluminum foil and let rest about 30 minutes (the final temperature should peak at just above 130°F - I expect about a three to four degree upswing in temperature when roasting at 250°F).
Now, timing is going to be a bit tricky with a roast that big... My semi-educated guess is that you'll need an additional 4-5 hours after your first roast at 450°F (less time if you left the roast in the oven during the cooling period when the oven temperature is dropping to 250°F.
You can also opt to finish the roast early, and then drop your oven to as low of a temperature as you can (mine goes down to 170°F) and keep the roast there to keep warm. When it comes time to serve, pull it out, let it rest for thirty, and serve.
However the Rib Roast of 5KG looms for Boxing Day with some Claret and company. What I am fascinated by is the meat thermometer probe. Unfortunateley Polder can't be had in UK, but I shall have to seek an equivalent? What is the probe wire made of to resist the temperatures of the hot oven as it snakes out, presumably through the door seal?
Probably I won't find a thermometer in time for 26th Dec, but any help on sourcing similar in UK would be a help for next time.
Great fun site!
Iain
(I suggest Donald Russell Direct for UK beef)usual disclaimer
Any equivalent probe thermometer should work. I believe Kitchen Craft and Taylor both make products for sale in the UK.
This one is available from Amazon.co.uk but I'm not sure you'll be able to get it in time for Dec. 25. You may have to go to the old standby of opening the oven door and shoving a thermometer into the roast every half an hour after the first couple hours.
I'm not sure what the probe wires are made of exactly. It looks and feels like the actual wires that conduct electricity are protected by a metal mesh that wraps around an insulator around the wire. The insulating substance is unknown to me. The cable does lead from the probe through the oven door seal to the thermometer unit.
I don't think anyone here would *recommend* pre-cooking your bad-a** standing rib roast, but sometimes one has to make concessions to the world.
I have found that your best bet is to probably cook it, let it rest until cool, and then slice it into the portion sizes you have in mind. Then the next day heat your oven to somewhere between 300oF and 400oF, place your slices between very large leaves of cabbage, then put the cabbage/cow packages into the oven on top of a rack placed within something to catch drippings.
How long? That's the tricky part. Until they are hot. For some reason, though, the cabbage keeps the slices from browning on the outside while they get nice and toasty.[/i]
I was just innocently looking for research notes on the 'perfect' Prime Rib recipe (again) and I googled myself here and got sooo much more...
I am in total awe to witness such a marvelous site as this. I do have the analytical mind (to a fair extreme) surrounded by linear and 'anti-linear' thinking... along with a yearning for visuals, graphs, etc... love the photos and recipe cards.
And, I am LOL ('cuz I soo relate)... the 'engineerist' commentary, criticisms, and especially the temptations for further research and development... I am just baffled by those who forego the research for lack of proper funding? I was always led to believe that I would have had a far wealthier outcome as an engineer (compared to the 'starving' artist route I passed through). I'm wondering what happened... or what else is taking up all that funding that couldn't allow for a few to several prime ribs?
Thanks in metric and all other sorts of measurably huge amounts,
Cat
p.s. If the post is +/- 3:33pm Christmas Eve 'there'... it's 7:33am here... Curious to know where 'you' are... I'm an ex-wife/now better friend of a UK native (about 8 hours forward from us). In fact, he will be sharing the Rib Roast with me later today... and with far more laughs than when we were married.
I'm not an engineer and I don't play one on tv, but I'm married to the daughter of one and hopefully that counts for something.
My question is;
I've read a lot about cooking rib roasts at the traditional 350 method. Has anyone tried the approach of searing at a high temp, then slow cooking at 200-250? This is supposedly the best approach for cooking a roast that is consistently cooked all the way through.
My boneless rib eye is 14lbs.
Any comments/advice greatly appreciated until count-down time; noonish tomorrow.
clayton01746@yahoo.com
I've read a lot about cooking rib roasts at the traditional 350 method, and just read about the slow cooking 200-250 degree method. Given the two methods, what's the best approach for cooking a roast that is consistently cooked all the way through and tender??
My boneless rib eye is 14lbs.[/b:cb2777c9f4]
My question is;
I've read a lot about cooking rib roasts at the traditional 350 method. Has anyone tried the approach of searing at a high temp, then slow cooking at 200-250? This is supposedly the best approach for cooking a roast that is consistently cooked all the way through.
My boneless rib eye is 14lbs.
Any comments/advice greatly appreciated until count-down time; noonish tomorrow.
clayton01746@yahoo.com
Thank You!
Thanks in advance!
Sue
In answer to the last several questions (in random order):
The best recipe I know of for roasting a prime rib is the one detailed in this article - hands down, no competition.
How long do you need to cook a 12, 14, 19.5 lb. rib in a 200°F, 250°F, or X°F conventional or convection oven? I have no idea - sorry. Please see my earlier comment on the difficulty in assessing the exact time of doneness and the reliance on a probe thermometer. You can do what great prime rib restaurants do - cook it early and then keep it warm for in a really low temperature oven (170°F or lower if your oven can do it).
String nettings? If you want to add a spice rub, remove the netting, apply the rub, and then retie between the ribs.
I hope everyone is having a Merry Christmas regardless of how your standing rib roasts came out. :) It's all about being with family, friends, or your community, right? Speaking of which, mine is calling for me to return to them...
Oh, by the way, I'm in the U.S. Pacific Time Zone. I believe the forums default to GMT if you haven't set your time preferences in your profile.
Signed -- The wife of an engineer in Ohio.
I pulled the roast out of the fridge one hour before cooking time. During this time the center temperature barely changed: started at 43 F and after one hour it was 45 F. No surprising, but clearly the phrase "getting it to room temperature" more of a saying that truth.
I first cooked the roast for 10 minutes at 450 F. The temperature increase picked up. After 10 minutes we were at 47F.
I then lowered the oven setting to 250 F and let it roast slowly. Now the center temperature really began heating up and at a relatively constant rate. From 47 F to about about 100 F the rate was about 1.5 min/deg F. After 100 F it begins to slow at bit, but not dramatically. I had an average rate of 1.9 min/F toward the end of the oven time. We pulled it out when the probe hit 125 F after an oven time of 2 hours 41 minutes (10 min at 450 F, 2 hr 30 min at 250 F).
Average cooking times were:
23.1 min/lb to get to a center temperature of 125 F
21.8 min/lb to get to a center temperature of 121 F
The surprising part of this was how much the center temperature increased after we removed the roast from the oven. I had read in one recipe that it would increase 5 F and in another recipe that it would increase 5 to 10 F. We saw an increase of 13F up to 138F. This occurred over a period of 43 minutes.
I was a bit concerned that the 138 F center temperature would push me past our goal of med-rare and squarely into med territory, but 138 F seemed perfect. The meat was evenly pink throughout and plenty tender.
For future reference, I plan to stick with the 450 F / 250 F method and to estimate times using the average cooking rates above plus an allowance of 45 minutes "set up time" after it comes out of the oven.
Happy eating.
Following the recipe detailed above, you should not have much carryover temperature increase. It might increase 1-2 degrees. Carryover temperature increases are caused by having a temperature gradient within the roast causing the interior to continue to rise in temperature while the exterior just begins to cool. The 200°F roasting method has very little difference in temperature from the very center to the semi-center, so not much carryover cooking occurs.
Excellent recipe. We followed the instructions as posted.
8 lb'er and it turned out perfect. I had so many compliments.
Cooking time was about an hour less than calculated using a coventional natural gas oven.
Next time I do this I will grab the data logger from work and instrument the cooking process.
Reheating without cooking the roast further is a difficulty. Slice off the amount of roast that you want to reheat, slip into a Ziploc bag, seal, and drop into hot tap water (about 120-140°F). The water will gently reheat the meat without pushing it into well done status (like a microwave oven would). The amount of time it takes to reheat to eating temperature varies depending on the thickeness of cut and how cold it was when you started to warm it up. Exchange the water even ten minutes or so to keep the water temperature up.
Thanks
Thanks
Yes, remove the bones first by cutting along the inside of the ribs around the rib roast itself. If you have a small roast, you can cut off all the ribs at once, but if your roast is very large, then you may need to cut off thee or four at a time. After the ribs have been removed, you can separate the ribs by splitting them with a sharp knife (just run the knife between the ribs). These are seriously delicious pieces of meat for the more adventurous party members (meaning - guests who don't mind getting their hands dirty).
Once the ribs have been removed, take the roast and start at the cut end, use a long sharp knife and slice the roast. The slices can be thick or thin, but should be cut straight across the roast. (Two ends of your roast came already cut, just follow the same direction of cut and work your way across the roast.)
Pad
Also, if switching to a roasting pan, do you lightly oil the pan first or not?
Or do you brown on the stove in a roasting pan rather than cast iron?
Also, if switching to a roasting pan, do you lightly oil the pan first or not?
Or do you brown on the stove in a roasting pan rather than cast iron?
I usually sear on a different pan than the one I roast on. You can definitely use the same pan, but remember to elevate the roast on a grill so the drippings can fall into the pan (away from the roast).
I do not bother to oil the pan that I am searing on. When you sear the roast, just let it sit for a minute or two on each side. When that side has seared, it will release from the pan easily.
This was one of the first articles I wrote for Cooking For Engineers. Upon rereading it, I think I'm going to have to rewrite parts of it and add more information (and definitely a lot more pictures).
I've only done two roasts at the same time once. That time, the roasts took the same amount of time as when I roast one - about 45 minutes per pound - so about 4-1/2 to 5 hours.
I'd appreciate others who have tried this to comment on their experience.
Your site has come to my rescue. It if perfect for the analytical mind.
We are planning on posting a bouncer (6'2" hockey player/ civil engineer) nearby, but fear his legendary appetite might create a conflict.
I will post our results.
HOT ROAST BEEF - Make a good gravy, get it bubbling hot, slice the meat thin, make a great slice of toast, use tongs to dunk the slices and load them onto the toast. The goal is to get them hot without further cooking.
ROAST BEEF DIP - Make a good au jus, get it bubbling hot, slice the meat thin, slice open a hearty sanwich roll, dunk it and then dress it as desired (we add nothing), use tongs to dunk the roast slices and load them onto the sandwich. As always, the goal is to get the sliced meat hot without further cooking.
Time to take it out of the oven. (ha ha)
Chuck, Manufacturing guy.
ps: I really like the garlic idea. Niuce touch!
That's why I recommend the use of a probe thermometer. That way, I can set it and forget it as I argue / discuss with my friends about the merits of using low heat vs. high heat roasting and start a pool going with the various estimates of when it will be done. If we get carried away, the BEEP BEEP BEEP from the Polder will tell me to come back to reality and pull the roast out of the oven. :)
Your method specifies a far longer time per pound. How say you to Beard's time/pound?
My estimate of 45 minutes per pound comes from how long it takes my 200°F oven to bring an eight pound roast to an internal temperature of 130°F. I took the totla time and divided by eight pounds. This has held true for the last two roasts that I prepared. (Usually, I tell my guests to show up at a certain time and that dinner will be done when it's done. I start preparing the final touches of the other dishes when the roast is sitting at 125°F - the last few degrees always seem to take forever.)
My convection oven at 200°F took 4 hours to roast a 9.5 pound rib roast from 37°F to 130°F, as measured by both a thermocouple (accurate to +/- 0.1°F) and a remote sensor digital oven thermometer (Pyrex professional brand +/- 1°F). Another thermocouple with a 'gas' (open grid) sensor confirms that the thermostat on the convection oven is accurate.
So, I have to go with James Beard (and the New Joy of Cooking) for these times, at least in my convection oven.
Delicious! Thanks for the article and the comments!
The sirloin tip roast (AKA round tip roast, AKA beef knuckle) is cut from the front of the leg, the area from the hip to the knee. It is not associated with the rib.
I'm an engineer and always looking for the "right" way to do things...so this site is very helpful. Last night I did a 3-rib (6-lb) roast on a VT Castings BBQ grill - my first cooking on it! It was for a guests 60th birthday, so I was a bit nervous, but went for it anyway. After letting the roast come to room temp and tying it up, I rubbed-on some olive oil and seared the roast over direct flame for 3-minutes on each side. Then I rubbed it with coarse sea salt, fresh ground pepper and a little paprika. I placed the roast on a rack in a pan over the center of the grill (no cover on the roasting pan of course), shut off the two center burners and left the two outer burners on their lowest settings. An oven thermometer placed on the "floor" of the rack inside the roasting pan measured 200F, and the thermometer on the exterior of the grill hood measured 350F. Now, mind you, the grill thermometer is up high near the end of the hood so it was measuring directly over a burner. At any rate, the meat was done to 130F in exaclty 2.5 hours. At that point I opened the grill lid, placed the cover on the roast pan and let it sit for 30-minutes.
I carved the roast by slicing the ribs off the back, and then sliced nice "typical" rib cuts to serve. OUTSTANDING! I was a little worried because the roast cooked faster than this site suggests, but except for the outer 1/8-inch around, EVERY BIT of the roast was perfectly medium rare. The guests went nuts. My wife loved it, and my two young children couldn't get enough.
Tonight I basted the ribs up with BBQ sauce and grilled them for about 7-minutes on each side. They were super-yummy, although next time 'round I'll cook them a little longer - I like my ribs done more than I do my prime rib.
Most restaurants that serve prime rib keep the cooked rib roast under heat lamps or in a special "oven" that maintains the temperature at around 120°F so it stays hot but doesn't rise in temperature.
Some restaurants will prepare several roasts of varying doneness while other restuarants will cook the roast at higher temperatures to get a larger area of medium vs. medium-rare vs. rare and will cut the roast at different points to serve depending on your request. This usually means the rare or medium-rare roasts are not as good as they could have been where a restuarant specifically prepared an entire roast for that target temperature.
Give it a try
Dr. J
Source: Whole Foods
Cost: $62
Size: 7lbs (3 ribs, cut from the loin end, which the butcher was happy to do)
Preparation: wrap in towel, place in fridge for 3 days
Day of consumption:
09:21 - 34° - removed from fridge
11:00 - 38°
11:30 - 41°
12:00 - 44° - browned 3 minutes per side, 5 sides on med-high heat
12:30 - 49° - into a 200° oven
13:30 - 78° -
14:00 - 93° -
15:00 - 114° -
16:00 - 130° - removed from oven
16:15 - 134° -
16:30 - 134° - undercooked - returned to 200° oven
17:00 - 138° - removed from oven and carved
Browning and cooking were done in a 10" Cast Iron Dutch Oven in which the roast barely fit. After browning, I inserted a heavy foil pie pan, inverted and cut to fit, with hole punched in it so the juices could drain. Browning rendered a fair bit of fat.
Temperatures were measured using the oven thermometer (+10/-1°), a calibrated over thermometer (+/- 1°), and a Maverick remote probe thermometer (+/- 2°, tested with ice & boiling water) inserted between two of the ribs, with the end of the probe centered in the roast.
After going back in the oven for 1/2 hour and raising the temp to 138°, we had perfect deep pink prime rib, all the way through. I just finished warming up a piece in a ziplock, in hot water, like Michael recommends. Excellent.
I just now happened upon your Cooking For Engineers site. I am so glad you created this for us analytical minded people. I am about to prepare a standing rib roast for Thanksgiving for some friends. I have a handwritten (by me) recipe from my father who was a cook in the army in WWII. He loved to cook and continued in that industry all his career after the war. He died several years ago and this is the first time I am attempting this recipe without him here to call on the phone for walk-through advise.
My notes on how to cook the standing prime rib are jumbled - out of character for an analytical mind. But it is because I had to take notes as he talked. He spoke like an artist but he had analytical spurts. I am also a map (visual) person, so you can see why the notes are a mish mash of analytical-visual-artistic learning/communicating styles. Because of this I had to check out the web for help to interpret my own notes. And miraculously there's your website - waiting just for me. I love it! Your link is now saved to my desktop! I am now able to rearrange my notes and answer my question marks (200 degrees or not) (Kosher salt before or after searing) etc. Thank you for this website!
Robyn
from Florida
your reponse is perfect. Lazy engineers complain about conversion when dealing w/ international "algorithms or recipes". Lucky for me, i'm a lazy engineer, that happens to use the same units as you do. (SWEET). Great recipe. I agree whole heartidly, all ya need for a good cut of meat is salt, pepper and and a low temperature.
Thank you!
Anyway, in addition to Michael's searing-and-200 method (with the searing coming either through a skillet or a 500-degree oven), I have found two other methods that have produced interesting results (still not Grandma's though):
Wannabe food scientist Alton Brown reverses the searing-and-200 method with a long, slow cook, a rest and then a quick 500-degree flash at the end: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_17372,00.html Without the terracota pot I tried this to OK results; maybe you really need the pot.
Ina Gartner (Barefoot Contessa) is a 350-degree gal, though she varies that a bit as well: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_25276,00.html. I found the meat less tender than in the sear-and-slow method.
The aforementioned James Beard also proposes that a three- or four-rib roast can be cooked thusly: For a 7:30 p.m. dinner, do the normal seasoning and place the roast in a 375-degree oven at 11:30 a.m.; shut off the oven (but leave the roast inside) at 12:30 p.m. At 6 p.m., turn the oven again at 375 for another hour, pull the roast out and let it rest for 30 minutes. I've never tried this one.
I've given up on both analog and digital quick-read thermometers and am ordering a Poulder today, with the understanding that the Poulter probe wires eventually burn out. A new wire and probe costs $15, while the whole shebang costs $10. You've got to love American consumer society.
Thanks.
\dmc
Wow michael, 22lbs? I seriously doubt your roast will take 10 hours. The largest one I roasted was 12lbs. That one took 5 hours @150*F. My experience is that as rib roasts get larger they get longer but not much thicker. The largest rib roast I've seen had a diameter of about 8".
Your oven heat has to penetrate a thickness of 3 to 4 inches of protein (the radius of the cross section of the joint), regardless of weight.
This year I have an oven that allows me to roast as low as 125*F. I plan on searing the roast in the oven at 525*F for 15 minutes then turn the temperature to 125*F (my target internal temp) for the remainder of the cooking time.
I'll start it earlier than usual. If internal temperature reaches 125* early, no big deal, I'll just leave it in the oven until we serve it. Internal temperature is not going to rise any higher. At that temp. the roast won't need to rest.
Michael, my 12 pound roast was about 16" in length. I'm really interested in knowing the dimensions of your roast when you get it (length/diameter).
Thanks
azmomof5,
Provided that you're serving side dishes and trimmings, 0.75lb servings should be adequate. That translates to 13 to 14lb roast.
.
If Prime Rib is your only entree - expect to feed 2 people per rib. Usually, my dinner guests end up consuming only about 1/4 to 1/3 rub per person with a mixed group and a variety of food available (some take 1-in. cuts while others split a 1/4-in. cut). If all your guests are hearty eaters - you'll basically need two roasts going at the same time.
Thanks
I have some leftovers and would like to serve it again, but I have always had trouble with the meat getting too tough and/or too dry. What is your suggestions in reheating the perfect medium rare meat????
The very best method that I've used is bagging the meat in a zip top bag and weighting ti down so it's submerged in very hot (but not boiling) water. The time it takes to reheat varies according tot he thickenss of the cut and the temperature it was when it went into the water, but, generally, after 30 minutes or so, the meat is nicely warmed up without continuing to cook it.
Microwaving also works fairly well if the meat has relatively warm to begin with (or has warmed up froma bagged soak in hot water). If it takes longer than 1 minute to heat up with the microwave, it's not a good solution - but if the meat is room temperature and you want to quickly bring it up to eating temperature, about 30 seconds in the microwave works without over cooking parts of the beef.
I cooked 2 such roasts lately: one on Christmas day and one night before last for a party. I used the recipe in the December 2006 Gourmet which cooked in 2½ hours at 350º F. The experiment I did was to use a 4 rib piece of real prime beef for Christmas and choice beef for the party. The choice beef was half as expensive at $9/lb and it tasted better. I know that the pleural of anecdote is not data, but I will not feel like I am missing anything by using choice beef again.
Sincerely yours,
Ed Warren
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binaries and those who do not.
Keep up the good work! :)
Did the cooking time of 14 hours at 200 F work out?
Last night I found this site and imediately felt at ease. I printed the entire chat log and decided to get up early on the morning of my maiden prime voyage and decide a plan of attack for my 5:30 dinner for 15. After reading the entire chat log I decided to use a little of everyones input. With only 6 hours until crunch time a 200 temp was out, even so I read one entry championing a 250-275 temp and from what I learned on this site it seemed the lowest temp possibility at my disposal.
Used a minced garlic, prepared mustard, powdered mustard, worschestershire, red pepper, chile pepper, onion salt, "If it sounds good it probably is rub".
Set my propane grill up to high used extra virgin olive oil in an aerosol can to coat the roast and generously sprinkled the roast with course salt and fresh ground pepper, then seared it over the flames on all sides.
Preheated indoor oven to 265, rubbed seared roast with afore-mentioned rub and placed on a "rack" of onion slices one-half to three-quarters an inch thick. I made a rack of onion because I didn't have a metal rack and thought the au jus would benefit anyway. "side note, temp of 265 will not burn onions".
Roasted in convection oven at 265 for 5 hours until internal thermo read 125. Served with a 1cup mayo, 1half cup horseradish, 1 tbsp fresh lemon juice and salt to taste sauce to be slathered, au jus also.
Knocked everyones socks of including mine. Thank you everyone who shared their experience it truly made ours.
Anyway, I tried my very first prime rib last night. Thanks to all who have contributed to this site. The truth is that my cooking of it didn't match my plan...the evening got all crazy...but despite this, the roast turned out fabulous and I figured I'd add to the data.
It was a 4.34 lb choice standing rib roast...4 bones I think. A little roast.
I preheated the oven to 450 degrees F (conventional). As soon as I put the roast in, I turned it down to 200 degrees F. I skipped the searing on the stove...running late..and didn't use a rack...just put in a baking pan and that seemed to work fine. There wasn't that much grease.
It cooked at 200 degrees for 2 hours 27 mins. Then I panicked and turned the oven up to 350 degrees because it was getting really late. It cooked at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. At that point, my cheap thermometer said it was 120 degrees in the center but I took it out anyway. I didn't let it rest, and just served it. It came out nicely pink nearly throughout, with good browning on the outside. About 1/2" around the outside edge was well done. It was somewhere between rare and medium-rare...perfect for me. When I went to slice the remainder of the roast after supper I noticed it was much more done...medium-rare or maybe a bit more...light pink throughout but no red...so clearly the center had heated up a bit more while sitting on the serving plate (if it had rested, I think the whole thing would have gone to that).
So...don't be overly intimidated by your first attempt, and know that all is not lost if your plan goes awry.
I just ordered a probe thermometer (they had it at Bed Bath & Beyond and Target) that includes a wireless remote unit you can take with you to monitor the temp of the roast and hear the alarm sound (I would have trouble hearing a timer go off in the kitchen). You can even clip this device to your belt so you don't wander away from it. (I'm still pretty easily flustered in my attempts to entertain people in my home).
I just thought I'd add to the data (even if the whole thing was a bit haphazard!)
I'll do this again!
Ellen
1. Burn the meat. i.e. Letting the internal temp get above 140F.
2. Not letting the meat rest after cooking.
3. Burn the meat. i.e. Turning the outside to charcoal.
The first one is easy. Use a probe thermometer and count on carry-over heating: I usually count on about 3% of the difference of the temperature. e.g. 200F oven for a 125F roast results in 75F x 3% = 2.25F carry-over. 300F oven for a 125F roast results in 175F x 3% = 5.25F carry-over. This is most valid for large roasts which are longer than they are thick. Your mileage may vary.
The second one is a little more tricky. When do you know you've let it rest enough? I wait until the inner temperature finishes rising and drops back to the temperature at which I pulled it out of the oven. e.g. I pull the roast at 125F. It rises to 128F. So I have to wait until the temperature drops back to 125F. Note: This could easily take an hour or more on a large piece of meat.
<scienceContent>
The third one is simple in execution but complex scientifically. It has to do with the complex chemical reactions of the Maillard and caramelization reactions. The process turns the proteins and sugars in the meat into more complex compounds which are generally brown in color. Cook too hot for too long and the outside will turn black and burn.
These reactions start at temperatures as low as 230-250F and occur at a faster rate as the temperature goes up.
</scienceContent>
So generally it is a good idea to not roast at a temperature above 250F. Also, remember that a lower temperature is better because cooking a roast is not all that different from cooking a custard:
The faster you cook, the more protein coagulation you're going to get and as a result you will wring out more water from the meat. This usually means that even with a proper resting period, more of the juice of the meat will run out onto the plate when the roast is served.
So if you have the time, cook slower. Even slower than 200F if your oven can manage it. Just make sure that you set the temperature at or above the final doneness temperature of the meat (i.e. above 127F for medium-rare).
Also, use an oven thermometer. Ovens suck, especially at low temperatures. At least borrow one from a friend to prove to yourself that you actually need one. I'm betting you do.
2. Let it get at room temp.
3. Place the portions in an aju on a low simmer until heated through
4. Serve
That would be how we did it at the restaraunt I worked at.
I a not an "engineer" by education, but I am an "engineer" by motherhood. LOL...Great site. I do this Prime Rib Roast. I leave mine frozen, crust it in course salt and fresh course ground pepper. Wrap it in tinfoil and I cook it @ 250 degrees for 6 hours. It is GREAT!!!! Crusted with flavor and juice. It turns out med rare. Just wanted you to know.
:P
This is actually an excellent way to prepare a steak if you're not doing it on a grill. Just sear both sides of the steak in some butter or oil - about 3 to 4 minutes each side. Slip it into a 200°F oven until done to degree you desire. Because it's not easy to get a probe thermometer to sit in the steak and produce accurate temperatures, I recommend using a fast thermometer, like the Thermapen, and measuring every few minutes (depending on how close you are to your target temperature). There will be minimal amount of carry over cooking, so you can take it out when it hits your mark. If the steak it too thin, then the high temperature sear might put you over your intended doneness, so watch out for that.
Thanks for the great website.
In my mind, a real engineer is capable of working with whatever is given to him. A good engineer might not do an exact sixteenth decimal place conversion, but a good engineer will know when a precise conversion is necessary and an imprecise one is acceptable. Most engineers are capable of working in whatever unit constraints are provided them and can think in US, metric, or SI. I have conversations with engineers from other countries routinely where we will both use inches, microns, degrees celcius, and pounds in the same conversation.
I happen to live (and cook) in the United States where we use a weird system involving seemlingly random and confusing units. So, I present my recipes with these units because I will be using these units when I cook.
Now scientists on the other hand are a different breed from engineers and will require SI units...
I flipped to this thread because I am making a standing rib roast on the grill using a rotisserie this afternoon and needed to check on a couple of details. My post here is completely off topic, but being a metric-o-phile, is there is such a word, I had to respond. I've said before I detest the system of weights and measures we use in the US, and can't wait for a change, but I know we are going to be stuck with it for a long time. BUT, with regard to accuracy and precision in engineering and architecture, everyone should be reminded that the Empire State Building, the Golden Gate Bridge (among many other structures in the modern world) and going to the moon, were all done with a slide rule (what's that? say the kids), and three significant figure accuracy, not to mention a lot of know-how. Cooking is one of those things where know how (or knowing where to get the information) is what makes the difference between a cook that knocks out mediocre meals, and a cook, trained or not, that seeks out information that they need to know to produce a delicious meal that everyone will enjoy.
Thanks to everyone for this great thread!
Now the Reaumur scale is just as detestable to me as the Fahrenheit/Rankine scales. Where do these guys get their motivation to make these ridiculous scales? Lets here it for Celsius and Kelvin. Go metric!
I have to say I am VERY impressed that you have Reaumur scale thermometers. They are probably extremely valuable, at leasts to nuts like us.
I wouldn't age a defrosted prime rib before cooking it. I don't anyone who has the facility to truly age a piece of beef at home. Besides, if I was going to take the time and go to the significant expense of preparing a prime rib/standing rib roast, and then take the credit or blame for its outcome, I would just purchase exactly what I wanted when I was ready to prepare and serve it.
Since I am not living in US, it is very hard to find unfrozen USDA Prime beef. The roast selling here is un-aged, frozen one, so I just want to find out is that any way I can improve it favour. Anyway, thanks for your comment.
Anonymous wrote:
I happened to have a view of the kitchen, over a counter,and watched as the chef took what appeared to be an already cooked cold roast,cut off a thick piece and that was all I could see. My meal came and the prime rib was as I had ordered it. Any ideas as to how it was heated back up?
Most restaurants that serve prime rib keep the cooked rib roast under heat lamps or in a special "oven" that maintains the temperature at around 120°F so it stays hot but doesn't rise in temperature.
Some restaurants will prepare several roasts of varying doneness while other restuarants will cook the roast at higher temperatures to get a larger area of medium vs. medium-rare vs. rare and will cut the roast at different points to serve depending on your request. This usually means the rare or medium-rare roasts are not as good as they could have been where a restuarant specifically prepared an entire roast for that target temperature.[/i:8fec73f8db]
[b:8fec73f8db]I've probably cooked a thousand standing rib roasts for restaurants across the country and I have always used very similar methods as this recipe. Lots of different rubs, but always prefer the low temp method. I've also added wine, different vegetables, and stocks.. but mostly to setup for the jus I make later. I've also managed to alter the natural flavor of the meat but don't think thats a good thing. To the point of why I am even posting... there is many techniques restaurants use to serve prime rib, but the most common from my experience is cooking the roast to rare and maintaining that temperature during service. Once the customer orders their desired temperature, its usually brought up to the desired temperature in a jus thats usually then served along side it.
This is the first forum I've read so far on this site, but I am very impressed and find it very informational.
Thanks[/b:8fec73f8db]
Anyways how far in advance can I buy a roast and not worry abut it spoiling or whatever?
from my butcher I always see them bring it out in the vacuumed sealed "big cut" -
I typically specific amount by number of ribs - I would not recommend less than three ribs for this method.
then I do the home method of dry aging.
place on smallest platter/low rimmed pan I can fit, on a rack, covered with a cloth towel, bottom back of refrigerator.
rotate 180 degrees every 24 hrs; change towel as / if it becomes bloody/soiled.
allow to stand for five days. because the home fridge is not as well controlled (temp & humidity) as 'professional' dry aging,
max five days is recommended for safety.
the meat can lose up to 20% of it's weight - water evaporating.
trim any hard crusty spots, season with rub of choice, low temp (275'F) roasting.
results are fantastic - tender and very flavorful.
sw
0:00 – removed from refrigerator
1:30 – insert probe thermometer (36F) and put in 200 F convection roast oven
2:00 – 38F
4:00 – 86F (at this point, my roast was going to be done too early so I reduced temp to 190F convection roast)
4:30 – 99F (I reduced again to 175 convection roast)
4:45 – 107F
5:30 – 121F
6:00 – 128F
6:15 – 130F
6:25 – 132F, removed from oven and allowed to rest
7:00 – 135F
7:25 – 136F, this is the highest temperature achieved, back in oven at 500F convection for crust development
7:40 – 136F, removed from oven for rest
8:10 – 136F, cut and served. A bit too done for my taste of medium rare.
Some notes of interest:
1) Taking the roast out of the refrigerator early to warm to room temperature achieved absolutely nothing. To get “near room temperature” would take far longer than a couple of hours.
2) At 200 F, my cook time is less than 30 minutes/lb to achieve desired doneness.
3) At 175F, my temperature carry-over was 4F.
4) The doneness was very uniform.
5) Before putting it in the oven, I rubbed with oil, 2 tsp. kosher salt, and 2 tsp. fresh ground black pepper, the crust was amazing.
6) Next time I get a loin end roast, cook at 175F, remove from oven at no higher internal temperature than 128F for rest prior to cooking at 500F to make the crust.
200'F is a bit more on the meat smoking scale than roasting - I'd suggest upping the oven temp to 275'F.
that low temp long heat soak also resulted in the "done thru and thru, and too much done, at that" result.
when you think about it, if you want outer layer crisp&crusty, to some depth of brown done, but inside medium rare - you can't let the whole chunk of meat come to a stable / steady state temperature. at that point, it's all done "the same"
convection vs. conventional: convection circulates the air more vigorously; with long roast time, not recommended. the whole purpose of convection is "make it happen faster" which is not what you set out to do.
that low temp long heat soak also resulted in the "done thru and thru, and too much done, at that" result.
when you think about it, if you want outer layer crisp&crusty, to some depth of brown done, but inside medium rare - you can't let the whole chunk of meat come to a stable / steady state temperature. at that point, it's all done "the same"
Dilbert, it looks like Ken did a pretty good job at following the directions - In fact, I'd still recommend 200°F for the oven temp, but since he's using a conventional oven, you'll have to either disable the circulation or reduce the cooking time. Now that Ken's got a set of data points, his next attempt will probably be timed differently.
Evenly cooked is the point of this recipe. Pulling out at 130°F would give Ken as much meat as possible at medium-rare. I like forming the crust earlier with a sear in the pan or on a grill over high heat and then performing a slow roast to get as much of the interior at the desired temperature.
Yep.
Actually I was trying to achieve the maximum amount of medium rare, basically medium rare through and through with a crust on the outside - any other way than the lowest possible temperature wouldn't achieve this same result. Once you got past the depth of the crust, which was just on the ouside, you got some slightly more done in the next 1/4", and the remainder of the roast was very uniform - exactly as I had hoped. However very uniform 136F (132F removal temperature with 4F carry-over) was still more done than I like, apparently I prefer rarer than this (this was my first time cooking standing rib roast, although certainly not my first time eating prime rib). The results as to uniform doneness were as I had hoped and my process is not likely to change next time except that I will try with convection disabled and will remove the roast at a lower temperature.
I had never convection roasted this low before. In the past on smaller roasts and more conventional temperatures, I have found that convection roast cycle doesn't appreciably reduce cooking time so much as it really forms a nice outside crust. Perhaps my cooking times are reduced, but at relatively small amounts that fall into the point of being negligible? However with a much longer and lower temperature roast time the convection factor is perhaps no longer negligible (I could only verify this by cooking another standing rib roast without it - yum). I can certainly disable the convection fan, however there is something clearly more to convection than simply a fan as my oven has four different convection cycles.
This is a great site.
"ye olde kitchen oven" is subject to temperature striations - you've certainly heard the ye olde standard line "rotate the xxxx to ensure even cooking / browning / whatever"
[[something clearly more to convection]]
yes and no; and of course the ever popular "mebbe"
convection is simply forced air circulation attempting to put the entire oven volume "more closer to the set point"
there's slow air fan, fast air fan, separate heating element 'boosters' to heat the air while it's circulating, low booster heat, high booster heat, and of where from it sucks and whereto it blasts.
for 'exposed' items, drying - ala the crust formation - is more pronounced. convection cooking a roast in a covered pot will not dry it out. . . .
if you have a heat booster in the convection air stream, that can affect 'crust' as the air exiting the convection ports is higher than the set point.
the low temp is indeed suited to your aim for medium rare (xCrust) throughout. I misread your initial post - I actually prefer Crust+Medium+Rare outer to bone - and have found the high temps help create that gradient.
1. Cook roast to medium rare (or rare if that's what you like)
2. Heat-up some au-jus in a large pot, keeping it at low heat ( you'll need enough to completely cover a carved piece of your roast)
3. Dip any piece you want cooked more into the au-jus and wait
I don't have cooking times, but it will only take a couple of minutes to change the done-ness "level".
It's also a good way to give everyone a nice warm piece since you can do a quick dip right before serving.
Anyone try that method?
link:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_17372,00.html
It'll end up closer to the time it takes for a 4-5 rib roast than for a 9-rib roast due to the extra surface area on the two extra end pieces you are exposing. However, I've found that the total time for a 4-5 rib roast doesn't differ drastically from that of a 9-rib (which is what I've got in the oven right now).
Fixed. Messages like this can be e-mailed instead of going into comments.
Just wanted to post and let the world know that this is the way to do it. I will be making dinner this year for Christmas. This will be the third time using this page for guidance. Every time I make this roast it has come out perfect and my guests continue to rave about how tasty it is. Cheers for providing a valuable service. Thank you very much.
Merry Christmas!
Matthew
I am having 10 people for dinner on Christmas. First time preparing a prime rib... Question. We'd like to use our rotisseri, how to I calculate time. Biggest problem... half of my quests like well done... the other half med rare. Any suggestions on pleasing both. Should I do 2 separate small roasts.. and adjust cooking time for both or????
Thank you..
There is no way you will get roughly equal amounts of meat that are half medium rare and half well done.
I have a 15 pound boneless rib roast. It's close 22 inches long with a diameter of 8 inches or so. Does the 45 minute guideline still apply if I follow the recipe as outlined at the beginning of this blog? That calculates to 11.25 hours in the oven after browning? is that right? just seems like a long time for anything to be in the oven. Also, does the fact that there are no bones in it affect the cooking time? Thank you!
Eric
I was planning on doing his recipe of cooking at 200 degrees, (he said about 4 hours for a 10lb roast to get to an internal temp of 118deg, expecting 10-12 degrees of carry over heat), then firing up the oven to 500 to form a crust.
(BTW Im a finance guy so I did this in spreadsheets...)
Used Alton's plan to extrapolate my own:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_17372,00.html
The show is also available on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmfaeWEjGpM
Alton's Temp:
118 Degrees Internal Temp Reached
240 Minutes
10 lb roast
24 Minutes Per lb
10-12 Deg Carry Over to get to 130deg medium rare
Therefore, to get a 10lb roast to an internal temp of 126, I need
[1+((126-118)/118)] x 240 Minutes = 256 Minutes, therefore I expect to need (25.6 min x 14 lbs) =358 minutes (6 Hrs) Roasting to reach 126 Degrees, which I want to carry over into the low range of medium (138deg) as follows:
Final Temps: Midpoint:
Rare 120 to 127 123.5
Medium Rare 128 to 135 131.5
Medium 136 to 146 140.5
So the big variables here, that conflict with the recipe on Cooking for Engineers, are -
1) Should I expect 10degrees of carry over heat?
2) What do you think this medium will look like? I want pink throughout, but not bloody.
3)45 Minutes per pound at 200??? My math gets me close to 26.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on my approach- it basically assumes linear relationships, since I know nothing about thermodynamics, it is all I had to work with.
Ps make sure your oven is clean before cooking!!!!!!!
Ha, this is true - I would hate to think of it getting soggy waiting for people to sit down to eat. Knowing my type of crowd though, if we have to wait an extra hour or two, we'll be too drunk to eat.
I'm going to split the difference and go for 5 hours- I'll start roasting around 12.
I have the digital thermometer, I'm just concerned that if I pull it kind of early, I won't get enough carry heat increase to let it keep cooking.
Alton says there was 10deg of carryover on his roast - but the other posters here saw much less - even at the same 200 degree roasting temperature.
5 hours is probably a decent estimate - my last roast was a 15 pound boneless and at 225F it was going to finish in 4 hours. I had to drop the temperature to 170F to slow down the cooking (and then picked it up to 250 about an hour before I needed it done) so it would finish at the right time.
I had about 3 degrees carryover during the 50 minute rest. I carved prime rib for the next 45 minutes and there was still enough warmth in the last piece that I served.
I am pretty put off by the discrepencies in the amount of carry over heat people say to expect. I don't want to overcook this thing.
not all thermometers are accurate
not all cooks use accurate technique
I have an old metal dial type from my aunt. it reads 12F' different than these newfangled 'lectronic thingies. perfectly good thermometer, tho, eh?
bone in / boneless makes a big difference in the amount of carry over I have seen. bones seem to be a heat sink . . .
sticking the thermometer so far as to hit the bone will produce a false reading. to be safe, I stick it in to where I _think_ is right, then I move in an inch both ways to make sure I'm not off by 50 degrees.
the higher the roasting temperature, the more carry over you get because (a) the overall time is shorter - some advice is roasting at 350'F
(b) there is less time for the higher temp to penetrate all the way through
if you pull the roast, allow it to cool, then stick in back in at 500'F to crust it, you'll get little to no "carry over" from the crusting bit.
Michael brought in "the voice of experience" - start your roast, check the temp and the time, raise/lower the temp based on how much time is left and the temp reached.
I start 4-5 ribs, bone in, at 235'F - I find the fat renders off a bit better with more than 200'F.
using the low temp long roast time approach I've never seen 10F' carryover. I wouldn't count on anything more than 4 or 5 F'
did you see the trick posted: keep a shallow pan of simmering broth handy - if you run out of "not done enough" slice it and put the slice in for a few laps in the broth pool . . .
oh, do NOT use the microwave to nuke it more done; this stuff is much too expensive for use on shoes.
I do hope your comment about dry aging the roast in the oven was a typo - the fridge is a better spot . . . .
Yep, aging in the fridge, not the oven, ha, I didnt notice that before.
so I guess I'll take the roast out of the oven when I wake up in the morning, let it sit in it's plastic aging box til it gets closer to room temp, and start at 235deg for 5 hours around Noon.
I'll adjust my calcs for 5 degrees of carry over cooking, and still try to land on the low range of medium. (135-138).
I'm not following the thought here . . .
starting at room temp I suspect 5 hours is going to be a bit on the long side - but that's better than the short side because if you graph out time vs temp, assuming it is reasonably linear (works at low temp roasting) you can see at mid-time-point how it's doing and adjust.
forward thinking / planning is required - you can't wait until 45 minutes before sitting down to discover the roast internal temp is 100'F and jack up the temp to 500'
if the roast finishes early - take it out to stand, cover with foil & "insulation" i.e. towel/etc - it will stay warm for a good 30 minutes.
first time I did one I read some cookbook and started roasting at 350' -
checked the temp and the roast was _way_ ahead of schedule - I simply turned off the oven, left the roast in the oven - started again after 90 minutes.
I am doing a 12 lb. boneless rib roast on Christmas, using the Alton Brown slow roast method (start low, pull out at 120 degrees, rest for 30 minutes, heat oven to 500 degrees, put meat back in to sear for about 10 minutes). I'm figuring on about four hours to get to 120, a half-hour to rest, ten minutes to sear, 10 minutes to rest and 10 minutes to cut, totaling five hours.
I am thinking about starting an hour earlier and leave time to turn the heat off and let it oven rest, but the lowest my oven goes is 170 degrees. I can't turn it down to 120-130 degrees. Any thoughts?
Thanks! Terry
Will stick 2 thermometers - analog and digital oven - want to get roast to medium 145 internal temp.
At 45 minutes per pound for an 18lbs roast to get to 145 - looking at 14 hours -- many have commented that this is TOO long.
Can others who have roasted large roast in and around the 18lbs please comment on time? Is 14 hours TOO long or should I be looking in and around half that time to get to a MEDIUM roast???
Thanks
That is my plan, but my problem is I need a ballpark done time to start opening the lid to check the temp. Don't want to have to open a lot because of heat loss. Does 4 hours sound about right??
large roast + 10-11 lbs cut in half, distance to oven walls makes a difference.
use low/slow method, 200 F, until thermo reads 10 F, under target.
let rest foil covered until internal temp stops rising, no matter how long it takes.
remove thermo, plug thermo hole with clean golf tee.
set oven at max temp. brown to desired crustiness.
rest covered loosely with foil 10-15 minutes minimum.
Would like to see discussion based on total energy expended, BTU's per hour
etc
We will dedicate this Christmas Standing Rib Roast to him and all those other slide rule engineers of the past and present.
Any one know about cooking a pork shoulder roast?? time? temp?
cut it in half and figure on 4-5 hrs at 200 - 235'F
marketing names are always fascinating
see: http://www.meattrack.com/URMISfancifulNames.php
for the club rib roast
http://www.ringbrosmarketplace.com/blog/2007/12/21/how-to-cook-prime-rib/
I'm about to start my 10 pounder
2 hours at room temperature then
225 degress until 130 for med with 5 degree carryover
I'm expecting 25 min per pound.
I just can't decide, sear first or last?
you'll get some crusting during "whatever" roasting method you choose -
searing at end allows for adjustments to potentially non-anticipated results. . . .
After looking at all the great post above I finally did the following.
(NOTE:) Having gotten up late, I put the roast in the oven w/o allowing any time to set on the counter. The roast was 40 deg F when I placed it in the oven.
I preheated the oven to 450 deg F, but the second I place the roast in I dropped the temp to 200 def F, this seared the rub on very nicely. After 2 hours time, I raised the temp to 225 deg F (An above poster said they had better luck removing the fat at this temp). At 4 hours time, I had a core Temp of 115 deg F, and by the end of the 5th hour it was at 125 deg F.
I removed it from the oven, seperated the Roast from the Ribs and placed it on a platter to allow it to finish and collect some juices, (Be sure to cover roast in Foil). I only saw about a 4 deg rise in the core temp. The Meat was a perfect Medium Rare, even the endcaps were no more than Medium
For the Au Jus I took a 14oz can of Beef Broth, and and boiled off reminants from pan, added Salt, Black Pepper, and Red Pepper (optional) to taste.
I thank all the above Poster's for your great suggestion, Information, and Ideas.
For Christmas Eve this year (yesterday) I cooked a 16 lb boneless rib roast. I bought it cryovac'd at Costco a week early and left it to wet age in it's own juices in the meat drawer of my fridge at 39 degrees Farenheit. I find that's a much safer way to age and it doesn't stink up your fridge.
At 9:30 AM I removed the roast from the fridge and washed it thoroughly, then left it uncovered in a cold oven to drip and warm. At 10:30AM I removed the roast from the oven, drained the juices and water, and proceeded to dress it. I rubbed a light coating of yellow mustard on the oustide, then canola oil, and finally a coating of kosher salt, lots of freshly cracked black pepper, and a tiny bit of onion powder. Then I placed it back in the oven to further warm (oven still OFF).
At 11:00 AM I started the fire in the smoker (custom smoker with offset firebox). I used approximately 10lb of Kingsford charcoal (NOT the mesquite kind) for early even high heat, and added large chunks of Hickory wood for smoke and flavor. After cleaning the grill surface and allowing the pit to heat evenly, I place the rib roast on the pit at 11:30 AM. I added more hickory chunks and allowed the roast to sit for 30 minutes - fat side down - while the temperature slowly varied from an initial temp of 400 down to 220 F. At that point I simply rotated the roast every 30-35 minutes and tried to keep a temp of 220-250. I know my pit fairly well so the temp stayed a fairly consistent 235 (1 inch above grill surface). You can also place a thermometer in the smoke stream of the pit being careful to not let it touch anything and verify the exit temp that way, though it will be a bit cooler than the internal temp of the pit. Anyway, I cooked the roast this way until 4:30PM, rotating it 180 degrees verically, but never horizontally. I then raised the temp of the pit by placing mesquite logs over the coals to bring the temp back up to roughly 450 degrees for 20 minutes (internal temp of 128 on the end furthest from the heat, 132 on the end furthest from the heat). At 4:50 I removed the roast to a disposable roasting pan, tented it, and left it to rest on my stovetop.
It lost less than a cup of juice in the pan over the next 30 minutes and final temps were 135 on one end and 140 on the other. The outer crust was phenomenal and the meat was extremely tender and beautifully pink on one end and slightly less so on the other. I did this because some of my guests prefer their meat slightly more "done" than others. If I wanted a more uniformly cooked roast I would simply rotate the meat vertically AND horizontally when smoking it.
To be fair, this is more barbecueing than smoking due to the temps, but it turns out so great that none of my guests complained.
Well, here's hoping some of you try smoking a rib roast. It's a flavor you simply cannot achieve in an oven - conventional OR convection. Oh, and don't fret over rib roasts so much, folks. It's pretty darn hard to mess it up as long as you don't overcook it! If you pull it out too early and it's still a bloody mess just fire up the grill, slap some butter on and make the most delicious ribeye steaks your guests have ever had!
I took the roast out of the fridge at about 10:30am. At 11am I realized I miscalculated the time, that 45min per pound is 6.75hrs, not 4.5. Dumb.
I preheated the oven to 450 deg. Put the roast in at 11:15, immediately turned it down to 250 deg. At 1:40pm, the temp was 90 deg. At 3:15pm, the roast was done - 130 deg.
I tented the roast and we ended up eating at 5pm. It was near perfect, and I got rave reviews from family.
Michel
put it in at 235'F
at +2 hours center was about 95'F - increased oven temp to 250'F
at +3 hours center was about 110'F - increased oven temp to 265'F
removed at +4 hours; 125'F center temp
rested 20 minutes.
crispy outside
medium outer muscle group.
clear juice, red, hot rare at the bone.
all gone at +4.4 hours.
the spaetzle should last so long . . .
How many people did your 10 lbs roast feed, and were the rib bones left on it? Sounds great.
Steve
but anyway, I did a ten pounder off the small end, bone in, four ribs.
the butcher left a bit more fat than I would have preferred (weight wise) - however it went for six with a extra thick slice leftover. no one went for a second slice - so depending on the appetite sizes involved you could get less.
10 lb prime rib
1 hr at room temp
preheat to 450 deg
lower to 200 when roast is inserted.
0.0hr 39
1.0hr 46
2.0hr 68
3.0hr 92
4.0hr 112
4.5hr 120, temp increase to 220.
5.0hr 127
5.5hr 135, removed, start resting.
6.0hr 140
(33 minutes per pound)
30 minute rest.
I would call it ... med-well side of medium. More than I hoped, but edible at least, which is good for me :)
quite a bit of juice (~1 cup) "leaked" out during slicing. Hard to quantify, but easily a cup. I suspect a long rest would have helped there.
I suspect not all is lost. the key is to roast it at a low temperature so the outside doesn't go crispy critter before the inside gets warm.
rub down with your favorite spices/seasonings - coarse salt & fresh coarsely cracked pepper at a minimum.
roast at 225'F - probably will not take more than 90 minutes if the oven if preheated and the roast is short of frozen.
do you have a thermometer to follow the interior temp? go for 135'F then pull it, cover and rest for 10-15 minutes.
Don't worry, you can still save face. I'm sure the butcher thought you were having it as a large juicy steak. :)
I suspect not all is lost. the key is to roast it at a low temperature so the outside doesn't go crispy critter before the inside gets warm.
rub down with your favorite spices/seasonings - coarse salt & fresh coarsely cracked pepper at a minimum.
roast at 225'F - probably will not take more than 90 minutes if the oven if preheated and the roast is short of frozen.
do you have a thermometer to follow the interior temp? go for 135'F then pull it, cover and rest for 10-15 minutes.
On a ribeye (steak) rib roast that size, probably one good sized rib width, I would pull it at 130 absolute tops and let it rest or else it will be medium by the time you eat it. Temperature is going to be critical because it is a small roast. Don't overshoot your temp.
Happy New Year!
Its time for us on the east coast to get ready to party!
The roast had been out of the refrigerator for two hours before hitting the oven. Internal temperature 15 minutes after going in the oven was 44 degrees. It took 6 hours and 10 minutes to get to 128 at which time I pulled it. It continued to cook, reaching 133 after 35 minutes. I couldn't wait any longer so I sliced it then. It was a perfect medium-rare throughout, right out to the edges, and gave up practically no juice or fat in the cooking or at slicing, and was extremely tender and juicy.
The best roast I ever cooked, and my guests were amazed at how good it tasted. Several said it surpassed the best restaurant prime rib they had ever eaten. Ten of them went through more than half of it, less the bones, for which I have plans today.
Thanks very much to all the people who advised of their experiences here. All were very helpful, and I hope this is helpful to someone, too.
2:00pm
Started my 9# roast after preheating at 200*F and continue cooking at 200*F.
6:45pm
At 6:45pm the roast looked a bit pale @ 125*F (internal temp) so I ramped it up to 450*F for 15 minutes.
7:00pm
Backed down temp to 200*F (internal temp was about 127*F)
7:15pm
Removed from oven at 130*F.
7:30pm
After sitting for about ~15 minutes internal temp was at 134*F.
Results:
End cuts were about med
Rest of the cuts were about med rare. :) Very tasty & juicy prime rib! Thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
-Wilson
:)
My roast was just over 5lbs and I used a 200' oven but I would not recommend basing your cooking time on 45mins/pound. I put mine in the oven based on that figure and it hit the target temp of 118' about an hour early. It took 2hrs and 20mins to hit 118' at which point I removed the roast from the oven, covered it with foil and let it rest a bit while I let the oven come up to 500'. Put the roast back in to brown for only about 10mins (this made me kind of nervous as the temp had already climbed perilously close to 128' for medium rare). I wanted my roast to be just below medium rare as I knew I'd be reheating the leftovers and would much rather it be slighly undercooked than over. Anyway, after browning it for about 10mins in the 500' oven I took it out and let it rest for about 30mins. Perfect (aside from being done about an hour early). Yum!
http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/productImagesPopup.jhtml?selected=mg&item=prod36640147&pageProductId=prod36640147&yB=mg_prod36640147
I am thinking ...
beef broth made from roasting drippings,
canned beef broth + canned chicken broth or water to create soup volume,
Add 4 T flour combined with 2-3 T butter to thicken,
Cook on Med heat until thickened
Add lots of sauteed mushrooms
Add carmelized onions
heavy cream or sour cream at end of cooking chowder
Add cubed leftover prime rib, just to warm meat up
What do YOU think Mr. Chu ?
Why would this take 13 hours to cook? You can't estimate time by weight since surface area increases as well when you roast gets bigger and roasts basically only get longer, not uniformly bigger. My guess is it won't take longer than 6-7 hours.
Has anyone tried any rotisserie rib? I have a four rib (8 lb) that I am doing tomorrow in the rotisserie. I am just curious on the comparison between the classic oven variations and the rotisserie?
I have engineered a Cook And Hold cabinet (CH6000) and the owner of our company wanted me to show some out of town sales reps how good it will cook prime rib. As we wanted to be sure it was done in plenty of time, and wanted to cook it overnight, we looked on the net for slow cooking instructions. I read enough of the postings to see that some people said it would take less and others said it would take all 45 minutes. It was a 14lb 7.4oz roast,200˚F at 45 minutes a pound would put it done 10 hours and 51 minutes. We put it in at 10:00pm (yep, made a special trip back to work to get the roast in the cabinet) figuring that it would be done around 9:00.
This may be a good time to fill in everyone about the cabinet. It is a convection "oven" that is plumbed directly into a water source to keep the humidity level up (moist meat). Digital controls, temperature probe, indefinite holding at another specified temperature...
Well, when we got here at 6:30am, it was already in hold mode. The clock indicated that it was done cooking around 3:00am. I stuck in a regular meat thermometer and the core temperature was 128˚F. When I finally cut the roast at 11:50 IT WAS BEAUTIFUL!!! From the first slice, it was as pink as a rare meat eater would want it to be cooked. Every slice was the same way. The roast was just as tender as it could be... So, my cooking time was about 21 minutes a pound, but the temperature probe did its job and put it into a hold temperature of 130˚F (instead of a Polder beeping at me)
Slow cooking is the way to cook prime rib!!! Thank you very much!!!
I've written a few articles on prime rib cooking since I posted this one to Cooking For Engineers, so I can't remember if I've mentioned it before on CFE (because I know I've discussed it elsewhere):
Cooking time for prime rib cannot be calculated by X minutes per pound.
I'll try to put together a newer, more up-to-date prime rib article.
once again, compliments on this site. so far i've made the chocolate truffles, mushroom soup, chicken pot pie, pancakes, lamb chops, all to great success. and my mother loves your tiramisu recipe.
by the way, on the recipe card, you convert 200 F to 90 F; i'm sure you mean 90 deg C.
You only need to tie this roast if you've cut off the bones already (some butchers do it to make it easier to serve later - but if they do, they usually tie them back on for you). If that's the case, you just tie the roast between the ribs - no need for the other direction. If the ribs are intact, no need to tie this roast at all.
And this is why I love the web - I can fix typos discovered years later! I've actually updated it to 95 degrees C. Thanks for catching that!
I've never cooked a prime rib before. I'm doing an 11 lb. roast for Thanksgiving. There's no mention of whether to cover the roast or not--what is your preference? Also, at 200 degrees x 11 lbs. I will be cooking the roast for 8 hrs???? Can that be right? Thanks for the help!
slow cooking time varies a bit -
items that cause this:
slight/moderate/wild oven actual temps for the indicated setting
amount of moisture in the roast (ie fresh vs dry aged)
bone to meat mass ratio
to answer your question, can it really take 8 hours? at 200'F, yes.
convection oven add more variability - convection is not assumed in this slow cook method.
it is absolutely essential to use a thermometer and check the internal temps as you go along. if it's going too fast you have adequate notice to turn the oven down/off in getting the guests and the food ready at the same time.
if you have the option to get a dry aged roast from a good butcher, go for it. stuff in the supermarkets is not dry aged; you can do this at home - 3 days makes a difference, 5 days is max. in the home refrig.
Here's the break down for 7# roast.
==7# Roast==
Rub- fresh garlic/rosemary and course sea salt/black pepper and garlic salt
Standing temp 46*F
Preheat 200*F and continue cooking at 200*F
9:30am Enters oven at 200*F
12:00pm (internal temp - 107*F)
12:45pm (internal temp - 125*F Set temp to 450*F)
1:10pm Exit oven (internal temp - 130*F)
Wrap in foil
1:20PM Removed foil when internal temp was 135*F and let sit to 140*F before carving.
1:30pm Late lunch! :) Perfect medium-medium rare cuts. Delicious!
Wilson :)
being boneless it will cook a bit quicker - use a thermometer - essential to judge how fast it's cooking.
enjoy! prime rib is a seriously simple thing to do - season, roast. the entire key is use of the thermometer. you can adjust the oven temp as you go along to ensure it's ready when you want.
So what if I Sear at 450 at the beginning for 10 mins
then again at the end of the cook (when it reaches 128) for another 10 mins at 450?
Then let stand till roast hits 135.. What does everyone think?
"searing to retain juices" - okay, #1, the whole theory is debatable, but past that #2 the implied theory applies to high heat grilling & roasting.
a prime rib roast will contract and not bleed all over the floor/pan - even at relatively low temps - without an initial "searing"
my approach is to cook it low and slow. when I hit 128'F (rare) then I decide whether it needs a high heat blast for a pretty crunchy crust, and judge the carry over cooking from that point.
i think I will take the approach of "wait and see" when it hits 128..
I DO however like my Prime Rib with a nice crust, I'll just blast it at the end if it is not to my liking...
I cant see it forming a crust at 200 F
It will be a 5 rib roast.
absolutely correct. it does not. but the low temps will bring lots of sugar and proteins to the surface that will make a nice crust.
I use the same low slow / then make pretty approach for chicken & turkey as well. it's way more easier to "apply" prettiness at the end than to correctly judge exactly the time and exactly the temp needed to create a chronologically simultaneous "meat done" and "meat pretty" event.
you can bake a chicken at 275 without a three minute situation of "it's done" to "it's burnt" - at that temp it stays nice and juicy even if you go get yerself lost for 20 minutes.
what's it take... 10-20 minutes at 500'F to make the skin crisp crunchy brown & purdy? much more fail safe approach, imho.
for prime rib, it's easy to "take what you got at <temp rare/med>" and turn that into "the most magnificent crust ever seen" than to undo the prior overguesstimated seared and now dried out miserable crusting and recreate something better.
one year I crispied / browned the turkey with a propane torch. absolutely beautiful, marvelous crunch to the skin, inside juicy and tender.
I call it the "roast not, bake&blast" method
I did an entire rib roast weighing about 20 pounds for my 30th birthday last year and it took about 6 hours at 200F. The thing is, everyone's results are going to vary and there's no way to tell how long it's going to take for your cut in your oven - it's all going to be gross estimates and 10-20% off on a small steak is a few minutes, but on a roast this size it can be as much as an hour off.
You need to get a probe thermometer and take readings every half hour. When I do a roast that large, I actually plot the readings in a spreadsheet to see what the rate and estimated time when it will reach my target. I then adjust the temperature accordingly. Just start early and keep an eye on the internal temperature and you'll be fine.
I have used a similar method of roasting a rib roast, but I do it in a ceramic BBQ (Kamado #7 --see Kamado.com). The advantage of using a ceramic BBQ is that it keeps the heat in. The temperature adjustment is by controlling the amount of air (a bottom & top vent). I use hardwood charcoal (oak, hickory etc).
I prepare the roast by rubbing it with olive oil, cracked pepper and kosher salt.
I start by letting the BBQ heat up wide open (500+ degree F), then I put in the rib roast on the grill rib side down and let it brown for about 5 minutes. I then shut the dampers for about 15 to 20 minutes, until the temperature is about 350 degrees, then I adjust the vents to what experience has shown to will result in a "steady" temperature of 300 degrees or less. After about an hour, I insert a meat thermometer and let the roast reach a temperature of 135 degrees. Let it rest for 20 minutes and serve.
The cooking times are consistent with what other posters have stated. I have always had good results. The wood charcoal gives it a very mild smoky taste and there is a nice flavorful crust on the outside.
hopefully you have a meat thermometer - absolutely essential to judge "it's done!" I would make a special trip to the store if none is available.
other than that - rub in a salt pepper mix - add some paprika for color if you'd like - not covered, low sided pan, rack if you got one, roast away.
the low&slow method of this thread fame is good at keeping max moisture / juice in the meat. if you're short on time you can cook it faster ie at higher roasting temp but the thermometer is critical to ensure it does not go overdone.
check after the first 90-120 minutes and then more frequently as you get closer to finished temp - 130 for rare - there is an effect called carry over where the roast continues to cook even after you pull it from the oven.
forget not to let it rest for 15-20 minutes...veddy important!
I dispense with the meat thermometer because I can tell by poking with a fork or my index finger how firm and thus how cooked the meat is. Because this cooking method results in such evenly cooked meat, I have found that this works for me.
No cover.
Just a quick recap of the process we followed. I set the roast out of the frig about three hours before sticking it in the oven. I seasoned it with our favorite rub, inserted the thermometer probe in the roast and let it sit out on the counter until time to cook. I pre-heated the oven to 250F (my oven seems a little slow although I have never checked it with a thermometer). I put the roast in 5 hours from our desired eating time and shut the door and never opened it for fear we would lose the heat and increase the cooking time. Low and behold our 7 lb roast was finished to 132F internal in a litlle under 4 hours. I didn't jack the heat at the end up to brown the outside since we liked the finished product as it came out of the oven.
I let it rest about 30 minutes while we got the rest of the sides together and then we carved it.
It was beautifully med rare through the whole roast and was so tender you could almost cut it with a fork. I will never roast a rib roast any other way. By the way, the roast was purchased at Costo and was marked USDA Choice.
Thanks again for this great site.
Subject: Perfect prime rib
So today we'll eat somewhere around 4. Or maybe 5. Who cares? It's Christmas and we've got all day.
I agree...
I always prepare a RibRoast for Christmas Day with just my husband and children. It's been a tradition since I've been married (23yrs).
However, I have always cooked my roast using the standard 350degree temp, and it has ALWAYS resulted in a roast whose juices would spill out once carved, no matter how long I let it sit. Last year while searching the internet for a better solution, I found discussions of cooking at a much lower temp (250) and gave it a try. The roast was perfect! Dark pink all the way through without any bleedout of its "rareness". Today I cooked my roast (7.6lbs) at 200 degrees and then up to 500degrees to crisp up the exterior, and it's currently sitting for the allotted time, waiting to be carved and skoffed down! I am confident it will be even better than last year's 250degree roast. Nothing better than a perfectly cooked beast on Christmas Day!
Merry Christmas to all of you out there, cooking perfect prime rib roasts!
-Carole in Tucson AZ
Meat selection is of primary importance.
If unfamiliar with selecting meat, ask for help.
Purchase 1 to 1-1/4 pounds per serving.
Figure 1-1/4 pounds per serving if very ends will not be served.
The rub is also extremely important. Select per your taste.
Wash roast and coat with olive oil, if using a dry rub.
After applying rub, make small slices into meat and insert garlic slices.
Apply rub/garlic to roast 4 hours before cooking.
Bring roast to room temperature (two hours).
Preheat oven to 500 degrees.
Use shallow cooking dish.
Place uncovered into oven. Close door and set timer.
Cook for 5.0 minutes per pound for medium to medium rare.
(4.8 minutes per pound for medium rare to rare.)
Do not open oven door.
Turn off heat - set timer for two hours.
Do not open oven until two hours have passed.
Trim roast from bones; cut and serve.
Unsolicited compliments abounded, including 'Best Ever'.
I don't have an internal meat thermometer, so did it by the clock: 52 minutes at 200 degrees, then cranked up the oven to 500 degrees for another 13 minutes. Though I will say the oven never got over 400 in that time. I haven't lived here long and am still learning my way around the appliances. The pan juice managed to smoke enough in that time to set off the smoke alarm though...
20 minutes of rest, then serving. It came out rare, which is the way I like it, pretty good, with a potato and gorgonzola-topped broccoli. I will have to get a meat thermometer to remove the guesswork, though. Also some horseradish dressing, and skip the attempted crust next time, I think.
I learned my food hygiene from Madeline Kamman, who was supposed to be the greatest teacher of cooks in recent years. She repeatedly cautioned about the need to move food rapidly through the "danger zone" between about 40 and about 130 when re-heating. That hot water method of re-heating seems to move the food through that zone very slowly.(of bacterial growth)
I switched to 'broil' for a few minutes, with 1 hour left to completion. (remove meat thermometer first!)
went out today and picked up a 16 pound roast for New years eve dinner will take better notes.
guessing it will take about 6 hours at 200 f
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
John, NH
I really need to rewrite this article (at least partially). I should never have provided a time estimate based on weight since it's truly non-linear to weight. An 18+ rib roast will probably take you 4.5 to 6 hours to roast using the 200 degree method.
Thank you for the reply. Would you mind expanding on your reply? I'm a bit nervous now that the difference in time is quite signifcant.
I do realize it is far more important to go by your thermometer than a generic minutes per pound, however you need to start somewhere.
Have you done a full rib roast, in this weight range?
Are you basing your 4.5 to 6 hours on your experience with a full rib roast in this weight range?
Is this recommendation using 200 degrees start to finish, not using a 500 degree for some amount of time initially then cutting the temperature down to 200?
By the way I tried creme brulea for the first time the other night using you're recipe. It was a hit with my son and wife. Can't wait to use it for New Years Day dinner with the whole familiy after the delcious prime rib.
Are you basing your 4.5 to 6 hours on your experience with a full rib roast in this weight range?
Is this recommendation using 200 degrees start to finish, not using a 500 degree for some amount of time initially then cutting the temperature down to 200?
Yes, this is based on experience. (See my comment on Dec 23, 2008.) This is not using the 500 degree initial heating period (although it probably won't really affect the total time estimate). I have never advocated the 500 degree blast (mainly due to the differences in people's ovens - how fast they cool down after coming up to 500 degrees, how fast they heat up to 500 if the blast is at the end, etc.). I like my recipes as repeatable by my readers as possible - so I use steps that are more controlled (not to say that a 500 degree blast doesn't work wonderfully - it does - it's just in some ovens it will prevent you from getting pink all the way to the edge of the roast). I don't like to comment on additions/modifications to the recipe that I post.
Having said that, if you want to know why large pieces of meat don't cook proportionally to the weight of the roast - a lot of it has to do with the size and shape of the roast. When a rib roast is compared to another that is twice as large, you'll notice that it simply gets longer. The surface area (not counting the ends) doubles when the roast doubles. The heat entering the roast on this surface area doubles as well (it's constant for any given square inch - it's doubled because there's 2x surface area). That means for a large roast that increases in length only, you'd expect that the cooking time would be the SAME for all roasts. However, there are the ends to be dealt with - the ends don't increase in size as the roast gets larger/longer - they are constant. So the total surface area of the roast doesn't actually double as the roast doubles in weight - it's a little less than 2x because the ends are constant size. (On a small roast - 2 ribs going to 4 ribs this is a significant amount of the surface area and the roast doesn't even come close to doubling in surface area; on a large roast the ends are a much smaller proportion to the surface area.) The difference in exposed surface area is one of the primary reasons why the cooking temperature isn't constant. In the small roast ranges 2-6 ribs, the cooking time seems fairly linear based on weight - but after that less and less additional time is needed to finish the roast; large roasts 15+ pounds pretty much take the same amount of time to cook. (There are plenty of other factors such as bone-in or out, bone orientation, roast orientation, position in oven, how well the oven retains heat, length of preheat time, temperature of roast, etc. These factors make it impossible for me to just say 4.5 hours or 5 hours and that's why I have to give a range of 4.5-6 hours.)
Hope that helps...
Again thanks for the prompt reply. My hat off to you for a great site and taking time out of your day to be so responsive, I'm sure this isn't your primary job.
Yes it does help. I'm a computer guy so technical answers are a pleasure. As long as you comfortable that 6 hours will be more than enough I use that, if it finishes earlier, I'll cut the oven way down or off, or we just eat earlier.
John, NH
Also, you'll want to add in up to an hour for resting. This should give you a nice window to hit - if it's done early, just turn off the oven - vent some of the heat and let it rest in there for 1 or 1.5 hours - no problem. If it's done a little late, just rest 30-45 minutes instead.
I followed all your instructions which made a lot of sense, including searing the meat for a couple of minutes each side on the stove top. Air drying in the fridge for 24 hours was inspired.
The rib roast was asmall one 4.25 lbs and I did not use a thermometer but went with your estimate of 45 min. per lb. Placed the meat on a rack on a pan in the grill and cranked it down. It would only go down to 210F but after 3 1/4 hours it kept the temperature constantly. Took out the meat, set it aside for 20 min, carved it and low and behold, the slices looked exactly like your photograph on this site.
It tasted phenomenally. Best piece of roast beef I've had in many a year.
Congratulations, Great web site.
Olive oil
grated onion
basil leaves
marjoram leaves
thyme leaves
pepper
I have rubbed the roast with the above and now is marinating in a vacuum seal bag in the refrigerator. It's 9:30 and I will wait until 3:00 to start cooking at 200F. The roast is only 3 lbs since there is only two of us. French dips tomorrow. Happy New Year to all
squatch - the salt bed sounds interesting - do you have any specifics on how it makes stuff do whatever it supposed to do (better - one presumes)?
I doubt that you'll find any significant difference between 200'F and 250'F - it will finish in less time but I don't think it's going to affect the overall result.
The recipe is at the Morton Salt website. You use coarse Kosher salt. This is finer than rock salt, but grainier than table salt. You add water the salt to make a paste. What you are going to do is encase the roast in a salt blanket about 1 inch thick. During the cooking process the salt should become hard around the roast. All of the cooking juices stay within the roast that help make it tender. I have seen some restaurants use this method.
I've done the "salt encased" for (whole) fish, not for beef - interesting approach.
oh yup. am there, doing that.
some fish dishes I like:
salmon steaks - stuff the center with a sea scallop, pan sear on high heat both sides; 2 mins max; finish in a 320'F oven; option: pile shallot/mushroom mix on steaks; top with lemon slice, as they go in oven
serve with: asparagus & Bearnaise sauce, oh yum.
fish lasagna: filets of a white fish - anything from flounder to perch -
olive oil, salt pepper, layer with sauted mushroom/onion(family)/breadcrumb(panko my fav); top layer of crumb topped with thin sliced tomato; oven bake
Next time I'll try the aging.
Thanks
Bobboe
Upon reading the entire comments section; it is amazing the resistance of many to employing Mr. Chu's method. It makes perfect sense to "roast" a prime rib below the boiling point of water.
Personally I searched for years to duplicate the magnificant prime rib at a particular restaurant, a restaurant that served prime rib that was so excellent it was lightyears ahead of the nearest competitor restaurant. I even "dumpster dived" to learn the source and quality of the meat used -- it is simply boxed cryovac packaged USDA Choice boneless short loin primals from IBP or Excel, exactly the same as you can purchase whole at Sam's Club or Costco. I'd be surprised if very few restaurants except the most upscale actually utilize USDA Prime grade.
I eventually found a recipe essentially the same as Mr. Chu's (http://www.parshift.com/ovens/Secrets/secrets049.htm) employing the same low temperature process. All anxiety is now gone, preparing an excellent prime rib is routine and simple.
Applying "engineering" to a process that has so many variables is difficult, Mr, Chu does a great job in applying logic and intelligence to the method (perhaps more than engineering).
For example, unlike steel that has the exact same properties that never vary, two pieces of beef are unlikely to ever be the same due to how the animal was fed, the breed of the animal and countless other variables. People's individual taste is possibly the biggest variable of all.
Ovens (especially home ovens) vary wildly in temperature control, our kitchen oven at times varies as much a 50 degrees farenheit.
Engineering however does apply in the necessity for quantifying devices such as digital thermometers, which are absolutely essential.
I employ 3 digital thermometer probes, 2 for the meat itself and one to fine tune the oven temp. These probes (Taylor model 1470) are inexpensive, all three can be bought for half the price of the short loin itself.
For those who only do prime rib once a year and have been bombarded with recipes the can only be classified as "internet slobber" (including many of the Food Network "entertainers") have a small window for failure.
Advice -- employ Mr. Chu's method -- maintain your oven temp at 200 degrees farenheit, push a digital temp probe's point into the exact center of the meat and you'll get the best prime rib possible for your set of variables.
http://camping.about.com/od/campingrecipes/a/ziplocbaggies.htm
It was an extra thick cut, about 3 inches.
The marbling is what jumped out at me, what one would expect from a excellent quality steak.
I thought -- I'll experiment, digital temp probe this puppy, olive oil salt pepper, roast with Mr. Chu's 200° F method, blast 15 minutes at end for darkened crust, pull at 135° for medium, what do I have to lose, 6 bucks?
It wasn't exactly prime rib, BUT it wasn't far from it!
The chuck roast was absolutely the best I have ever had, the spouse remarked she never knew chuck could be so tender and taate so good.
Thinly sliced the remnants, nice slightly pink slices.
This morning had a super great steak omelet.
6 bucks of chuck, 2 fine meals for 2 people. Thanks Mr. Chu.
I've done three six lbers at a clip in a standard 30 inch oven.
you will need more time - the oven heat is being absorbed by more mass.
This is from starting it at 500 degrees and turning it down. Like Mr. Chu said, if you cook it at a steady 200 degrees it will cook evenly, if you don't follow directions it will not turn out the same!
It was still delicious, juicy, tender and not at all dry.
I made a killer prime rib, melted in my mouth and my wife thinks I am the nads.
Steve
It's so refreshing to hear from other engineers on this subject.
hopefully you have a thermometer to help with the roasting -
but specifically to your question, yes - the cooking time will be less because bones do soak up quite a bit of heat energy.
regrets I can't say by how much exactly - actually never done one without the bones <g>
but you should be using the thermometer and not just x minutes per pound type of thing.
Dinner time doesn't necessarily have to be flexible. If you take regular samples (every thirty minutes or so), you can see how fast the roast is cooking and then modify your temperature (turning it down to 170 if you think it'll finish too early; turning it up to 250 if you realized it's taking longer than expected) to try to hit a window. I've had pretty good success with this method.
Looking at the spreadsheet I have from the last time I did a 15 pound rolled rib roast, six hours seems reasonable. It took me four hours to go from 36F to 120F at which point I turned off the oven (but kept the roast in there) to slow down the cooking for an extra hour or two before turning the oven back on to bring it to its final temp.
My guess is that you'll have your roast done in about 5.5 hours give or take. Remember to leave time to rest the roast after you remove it from the oven. For a roast that large, I'll rest it for 45 minutes and it will usually hold it's temperature for serving for a good hour after that.
I do score the fat and use humongous amounts of crushed garlic and mustard smothering the roast along with other things I like to add and the condo smell likes the Gilroy garlic festival.
Thanks for the great idea
the "low and slow" method works for a lot of meats / cuts. it suffers from the all too popular "and I want it now" mentality / approach of hectic living.
not all tasty things can be done in the microwave <g>
try fried chicken:
prep: soak / dry / egg wash /seasoned flour/coating.
fry pan cook at high heat _just_ for pretty and color
finish in the oven, on a rack, at 325'F for 30-40 minutes.
beef roasts / chunks - I use 310'F
pork roasts / chunks - 335'F
(seems pork fat takes a little more heat to 'render' . . .)
Rib dinners for my Masonic Lodge and also having catered a few Prime Rib dinners for other organizations, an important thing to remeber is in the selection of the meat itself. For the past 8 or 10 years I have always gone to Cash and Carry (a semi commercial grocer that is in my neck of the woods) where in the chill box they will have many full size prime ribs, ssome with bone and many more without. When the roast is cold, the fat congeals so it is firm to the feel. The lean portion doesnot congeal so it is soft to feel. Cash and Carry will normally have 8 to 15 cases (about 6 roasts to a case) and I have gone through several cases feeling each and every roast until I come up with 4 or 5 that I need for the upcoming dinner. They usually run about 14 to 15 pounds each without bones and we usually figure about 10 to 12 ounces raw per serving.
Help me with a new problem, if you will. I need to cook two roasts, and need to estimate cook time. Do I consider the combined weight of the two, or estimate for each? Example: @25 minutes/pound, a 10 pound roast would take 250 minutes. How long would it take two 10 pound roasts?
Fred
Even for a single roast, the x minutes / pound equation doesn't work. The amount of energy being absorbed by the roast is mostly governed by surface area, so cooking time is most closely related to surface area / volume. If 250 min. works for you for a 10 pound roast, then something close to 250 minutes will work for you with two 10 pound roasts (of similar dimensions). It isn't quite that simple since the oven has to be able to maintain consistent temperature and have infinite heat capacitance and there's airflow around the roasts to consider, etc, but I would guess that if given adequate spacing (a couple inches between at least), the extra roast shouldn't increase cooking time by more than 30 minutes. Start checking when you normally would and don't be surprised if the time comes out remarkably close to if you roasted only one.
So, 2 shallow pans, 2 thermometers and an extra 30 minutes are now part of my plan. From one engineer to another, thanks.
My oven cycles on at 197 degrees F and off at 205 degrees F maintaining temperature below the boiling point of water.
Why is that important?
Temperatures above 212 degrees will boil the water out of the Prime Rib drying out the meat.
Temperatures below 212 degrees will retain the water and importantly the water facilitates conduction for a nice even raosting.
Another benefit of temps below 212° is far less rendering of internal fat.
Thanks to all the people who commented, too. I haven't tried the mustard yet but intend to...
My oven cycles on at 197 degrees F and off at 205 degrees F maintaining temperature below the boiling point of water.
Why is that important?
Temperatures above 212 degrees will boil the water out of the Prime Rib drying out the meat.
Temperatures below 212 degrees will retain the water and importantly the water facilitates conduction for a nice even raosting.
Another benefit of temps below 212° is far less rendering of internal fat.
so,,, if you roast the prime rib to an internal temp of oh,,, say 130'F - just exactly how does the "water boil out of the meat" because the oven temp may be set on 250'F ?
horsefeathers.
I really like this 1/2" of meat along with med rare for the rest of the roast.
So I how do I duplicate this without messing up the rest of the roast.
I usually cook first 20-30 minutes at 450F then pull the roast and cool the oven to 250F and preceed from there, but I am not getting that 1/2" outer layer that I like,its thinner.
Thoughts, how dangerous to increase my time at 450F or is there a better way.
Thanks
Old Mike
try reversing the temp curve - roast low&slow, then jack it up at the end to get the crisp crust & 'done' penetration you want.
a thermometer with a long probe is a real asset here - with a long enough probe to reach the center(+) you can judge the interior rare.
then with the high heat - 450'F or better - you can measure temps in the first inch or so - 165'F would be well done. the 'finish' should only take max 30 minutes (not removing the roast for the 'preheat') and since temp is moving from the outside to the inside, you can cut it off where you'd like it.
I saw on david rosengargen's taste program in the mid 90's that "Prime"
in prime rib comes from the fact that it is a "primal" cut of beef. Not really related to the usda grading.
Nevertheless, a tasty piece of beef!
I will probably need to do two roasts again this year, found out last year that it is a little tricky, they did not cook at the same rate.
Mike
Old Chemist
this is true.
oft called a "standing rib roast" - the "prime" in "prime rib" is not related to USDA grading specifications.
excellent point for this thread - thanks!
I normally slow roast a prime rib at 235'F - a bit lower but not likely to hugely differ from your experiences. seems that "beef fat rendering" happens somewhere between 235'F and 245'F . . .
the blast&slow vs slow&blast thing is a curious dilemma - but I think there is an explanation to why it works / doesn't work for various folk,,, depending....
the "pro" for slow first, toast last, is it is more difficult to "overdo" the toast. the slow roast first gets the meat 'done' ala thermometer / preference perfection - then it's just a matter of blasting it to "make pretty" - attention span more likely 'focused' . . .
the "con" I've seen is gosh, the post slow-roast meat surface just doesn't quite react the same as "fresh into the blast furnace." methinks I get more better crisp & crunch & caramel with the "blast first" method.
the "con" to blast first is simply "once cooked, veddy tricky to uncook"
lacking the cook's acute attention span . . . not good.
the caveat is: blast thee not too long! and perhaps that's where some folk go astray.
using a 235'F slo-fast roast routine , my experience is the 'medium' stage extends only to the first 'fat' layer - which could be half, 3/4, mebbe an inch, into the roast. the heat energy absorbed by that outer fat layer 'rendering' seems to protect the (further) interior parts.
I'm still using my centuries old non-electronic non-instant non-digital Taylor dial thermometer with an 8" probe. now and then I check it in boiling water - not sure it it is perfectly accurate - perhaps I've been calibrated to "it" - but heh, works in this house!
"so,,, if you roast the prime rib to an internal temp of oh,,, say 130'F - just exactly how does the "water boil out of the meat" because the oven temp may be set on 250'F ?"
Respectfully Mr Dilbert, perhaps a study of the principles of vapor pressure as it relates to culinary arts will be informative, if not absolutely educational.
Conserving the internal juices and the internal fat in the meat is critical.
Alton Brown debunked the widely disseminated internet myth that searing meat "locked in the juices". MYTH BUSTED the Mythbusters would be proud.
If anyone still doubts the 200-210 degree roasting temperature as near ideal (for prime rib), go study the barbeque business where the meat is cooked for 10-12 hours at 200 degrees (and below) yet it maintains its juicy goodness and acheives a perfect tenderness.
It isn't an accident the cooking temperatures are below the boiling point of water.
I have roasted prime rib at 185-190 degrees and achieved a perfect pink medium rare across the entire cross section of the ribeye.
Perfect in juiciness.
Perfect in tenderness.
The Holy Grail of prime rib is sub 210 degree roasting temperatures, any thing above 210 degrees results in a compromised piece of meat.
That perfect crust?
Personally I can do just fine without it, but many associate a tasty salty crust with the prime rib experience.
310 degrees is where the Maillard Reaction occurs. Remember it.
Lots of methods to get there without turning the meat into charcoal.
I have done it with a extra heavy duty propane torch, the kind professional roofers use to install melt down roofing.
The best results were obtained from over a charcoal grill. 10-15 minutes rolling on a hot grill produces near perfect results, very similar process to grilling a steak. Radiant heat seems best.
In an oven (with door open) under the broiling element also takes advantage of radiant heating. (Famous Peter Luger's Steak House uses the broiling method to do their porterhouse steaks)
One note though. The tile's going to be longer than your oven, and you'll need to cut it to length. Don't wait until Christmas eve to do this, your neighbors will hate you, and the snow will be uniformly tinted brick-red. :-)
rob in NH
I did not major in thermodynamics, but since you are boiling away the water inside the meat at 130'F I presume you are roasting it in a vacuum chamber.
are you perchance confused about "boiling" vs. "evaporation"?
evaporation is a surface effect - not going to happen "inside" the meat.
Respectfully Mr Dilbert, I have neither the time nor the inclination to educate the uneducable or to engage the compulsively argumentative.
------------------------------------
Mr Chu, the originator of this forum, has it 100% correct, 200 degrees farenheit is the ideal roasting temperature.
It is astounding the number of posters that come here to argue for argument's sake instead of learning or to proliferate the same tired useless internet babble that contaminates the web.
Roast your prime rib at 200 degrees farenheit.
Follow Mr Chu's instructions above and you will have a prime rib equal to or better than the best prime rib in any restaurant.
Where to buy a decent ribeye roast?
Sam's Club is now selling Certified Angus Beef, choice grade.
Checkout the packaged ribeye steaks in the display case for an indication of quality. Been looking excellent the last while.
If you can't use the whole cryovac 15-16 pound primal, ring the bell ask the butcher if he'll cut one in half for you. He most likely will as he can cut the rest into steaks for the display case.
Having cooked quite a few Prime Rib dinners for my Masonic Lodge and also having catered a few Prime Rib dinners for other organizations.
An important thing to remember is in the selection of the meat itself.
For the past 8 or 10 years I have always gone to Cash and Carry (a semi commercial grocer that is in my neck of the woods) where in the chill box they will have many full size prime ribs, ssome with bone and many more without.
When the roast is cold, the fat congeals so it is firm to the feel. The lean portion doesnot congeal so it is soft to feel. Cash and Carry will normally have 8 to 15 cases (about 6 roasts to a case) and I have gone through several cases feeling each and every roast until I come up with 4 or 5 that I need for the upcoming dinner.
They usually run about 14 to 15 pounds each without bones and we usually figure about 10 to 12 ounces raw per serving.
Very good point.
No two pieces of meat are the same.
It is a variable that without the experience such as yours in the selection of the best from similar looking pieces that places the amateur cook at a disadvantage.
Often the disappointment with a finished prime rib being less than desired has more to do with the meat itself than the roasting method.
Thanks for pointing out that comparing the "softness" of meat is a good indicator of quality.
If you experience a disappointing result while employing Mr. Chu's low temperature slow roasting method, remember it could be the particular piece of meat you chose. Don't give up, try again.
Cordell Hanson
preparation (I did two hours, but probably better if longer)
1) took the roast out of the refrigerator 3 hours before roasting.
2)I slivered some garlic and inserted them in the sides and top of the roast (approx 4 cloves sliced into 20 slivers).
3) made a marinade out of olive oil, lots of kosher salt, onion powder, garlic powder, pepper and a touch of cumin. Sorry, I am not an engineer, so no measurements! Minced half a medium yellow onion (into fairly small pieces) and added it. Rub it into all meat surfaces and let stand.
searing
Preheat oven to 500 degrees on convection roast(this took 30 minutes in a Wolf range due to no exposed heating elements)
put to roast in for 7 minutes, then rotate for another 7 minutes (due to the convection fans blowing hot air from the back of the oven.
roasting
I was concerned about the oven not "cooling off" fast enough from 500 degrees to 190degrees. So, I opened the oven door, took to roast out, put in the temperature probe (very handy for roasting meats), waited 5 minutes (to let to oven cool off), then put to roast back in.
I am not sure what the temperature was in the oven when I returned the roast (I do not have an oven thermometer and did not bother messing with the knob to measure the temperature). My guess is that it came down to 350 degrees or so.
I set the oven to 190 degrees, set the probe at 125 degrees internal temperature, then let it roast. Based on the posts, I thought it would take 6 hours. But after 4 hours, the temp reached 121 degrees and I pulled it out and covered it with foil. The temp raised to 132 degrees, then cooled to 110 degrees (based on instraread thermometer readings)
Dinner was not for 3 more hours, so I waited until one hour before serving time, then returned the roast to a 170 degree oven. The probe was now "confused" since the internal was only showing 109 degrees, but I knew it had reached 132 degrees earlier. I let it roast for 10 minutes, then pulled it out. When I cut the roast in the middle, it was perfectly medium rare (Whew!).
I served it and it was a big hit. the cross section of the meat has about 1/4 inch seared and the rest of it was uniformly medium rare. Also, one cut in from the end cut of this large roast was about as medium rare as the center of this roast. So, almost an entire roast of medium rare.
We ate almost the entire roast, with some kids having 4 servings. We only have about 3 slice left in the fridge. That will probably disappear today!
Lessons: it is well worth the trouble, but the timing is a bit tricky, so watch the internal temperature. My guess is a 16 lb roast would take about 5 hours including searing (without the time out we had yesterday).
my judgement will decide on what to buy next year.
Old Mike/Retired Chemist
Roast your prime rib at 200 degrees farenheit.
Follow Mr Chu's instructions above and you will have a prime rib equal to or better than the best prime rib in any restaurant.
>>
ah nuts, here's some interesting babble:
/quote
Mr. Chu:
"Dinner time doesn't necessarily have to be flexible. If you take regular samples (every thirty minutes or so), you can see how fast the roast is cooking and then modify your temperature (turning it down to 170 if you think it'll finish too early; turning it up to 250 if you realized it's taking longer than expected) to try to hit a window. I've had pretty good success with this method."
/unquote
apparently the water in his roast does not boil.
Sigh. I really didn't want to chime in on this. The anonymous poster who is defending the 200F cooking method is on the right track, but scientifically incorrect. Dilbert is right on this one.
The water/liquid in the roast does not boil - even if we cooked the thing at 350F.
The liquid loss is due to evaporation as the deep interior of the roast never exceeds 135F and the exterior (although reaching temperatures high enough to boil water, long since loses all its water content due to evaporation at lower temperatures as it is brought up to its final temperature). By far, the biggest reason for liquid loss due to evaporation is the "squeezing" out of water stored in the cells out to the exterior of the roast where it evaporates. This is caused by the constriction of proteins as they increase in temperature and the main reason why a well done roast is dry (not because the temperature got so high the water boiled off). At the end of the day, it comes down to temperature control and in an attempt to get the roast to be as uniform as possible, I advocate cooking it at a temperature as close to your final temperature as possible (let's say 135F), BUT cooking at lower than 200F takes so long that I chose 200F as a happy medium between perfect roast and reasonable length of time. That's why 200F was chosen. Higher temperatures would lead to greater and greater non-uniformity of temperature in the roast (outside hotter than inside) which would overcook the exterior (some people like the gradient, so this recipe isn't for them). The higher the temperature, the greater the gradient. No boiling of anything.
It's actually really difficult to boil anything the size of a roast due to the ample surface area and comparatively huge amount of energy that needs to be imparted to bring the interior to boiling point (outside a vacuum). It might be doable in a microwave oven with a smaller roast (too big and the microwaves can't penetrate far enough).
14 vs 12 pounds is not a size difference to cause concern with 'unequal' roasting time - especially in the low and slow method. as pointed out in the long string of messages in this thread, how fast the heat penetrates / cooks the roast is dependent more on surface area than mass, per se.
using 200'F you can use the "45 mins per pound" as a starting guideline - but as you are doing two separate roasts, it's not 26 lbs x 45 minutes - the oven has the "power" to keep up the set temp - in other words, the oven won't "know" it has two separate roasts - it will cook both 'evenly'
so looking at the extremes:
14 lbs x 45 min/lb = 10.5 hours
12 lbs x 45 min/lb = 9 hours
and frankly I suspect both will be a "long" estimate - I do 10 pounders at 235'F - which takes about 4 hours. 14 lbs at 235'F I'd guesstimate at 5 hours.
roasting at 200'F will extend the time, but I doubt it will double.
the "trick" is to use a thermometer to measure how fast the roast(s) are cooking.
a 130'F internal temp is 'traditional' for rare - 136'F for medium.
write drown the time & temp as you roast - check initially every 45 minutes or so, when internal temps get above 90, check every thirty minutes.
forget the nonsense about opening the oven door - you're dealing with thermal masses thaty will never dsitinguish a 30 second vs 2 minute open door.
you'll quickly see if it's going to get done sooner / later / just right time wise. internal temperature rise slows at it increases (given the same oven temp) - so you can increase or decrease the oven temp to speed up / slow down the roasting. that includes the "Off" position.
on a rack will help with heat penetration from below vs 'flat on a pan" - end effect - cooks faster.
pulling the roast(s) out of the fridge for one-two hours prior to oven also helps cut down on cooking time as they will warm up a bit.
I would do them on wire racks spaced apart to allow air flow. You're going to probably need two probe thermometers, but if you only have one then stick it in the smaller of the roasts to begin with. Mostly, at these sizes, it's just the diameter of the roast that dictates cooking time - a slightly longer roast won't change cooking time as surface area of the longer roast increases at roughly the same rate as the mass (this is not true when the roast is actually getting LARGER and not just LONGER).
I would budget 5 hours of roasting time and 1 hour of resting, but you WILL need the probe thermometer. If you don't have one, you have a day or two to go to the Bed Bath & Beyond to get one. Take some notes as it roasts so you can track how fast the interior temperature is rising and don't worry, it starts off a bit slow. Do not be afraid to fiddle with oven temperature controls to get it to slow down or speed up slightly to get you to your target time. Try to stop cooking about an hour (or tad less) before service.
Convection probably would not get the brown crust you are looking for unless your oven runs hot for brief amounts of time as it cycles. 200F just isn't hot enough to brown, so I suggest you brown first. As for the hour of rest - it's not actually "cooking" in that period of time, but the temperature on the outside and the inside is evening out and then the whole thing starts to cool a little. The proteins begin to relax slightly which allows the free juices to be reabsorbed (to a point). 1 hour resting shouldn't be an issue for a 14 and 12 pound solid mass at an average temp of 135F unless your room temperature is really cold. Think of how long it takes an equivalent amount of water (about 6 quarts) to cool. As long as you serve it above body temperature, you'll be fine. You can leave the probe in there to see what the roast temperature is while you let it rest as well.
Micheal Chu wrote: The anonymous poster who is defending the 200F cooking method is on the right track, but scientifically incorrect......
The water/liquid in the roast does not boil - even if we cooked the thing at 350F......
By far, the biggest reason for liquid loss due to evaporation is the "squeezing" out of water stored in the cells out to the exterior of the roast where it evaporates. This is caused by the constriction of proteins as they increase in temperature and the main reason why a well done roast is dry
Dear Mr. Chu,
The poster you reference as being correct misconstrued and misstated the original post.
The statement was that temperatures higher than 212 degrees would boil the water "OUT of the meat", NEVER was it stated water would boil within the meat.
Water boiling (evaporating) off the surface creates a vapor pressure that draws even more water to the surface to evaporate. You refer to it as "squeezing" out, out being the key word, as in "out" of the meat.
My point was simple -- keep the roasting temperature below the boiling point AND the prime rib will experience much less water loss.
Call it "squeezing" out, capillary action, vapor pressure or whatever other scientific or unscientific term, the fact is the higher the heat the greater the water loss from within the meat.
Beyond the water loss with higher heats is higher fat loss. Fat loss equals flavor loss.
If the professional barbeque folks would cook a slab of ribs at 235 degrees as the correct poster you are referring to roasts his prime rib, after 12 hours that slab of ribs would come out not unlike a chunk of stringy charcoal.
Barbeque professionals cook below the boiling point of water for a very obvious reason.
I regret ever responding to the poster in question, unfortunately I took his bait and have trashed up your forum, for that I am sorry.
I have seen him on other forums and have total contempt for him and his ilk that spew their mental slobber all over the internet.
.
Subject: 16 Pound Rib Eye Roast - delicious! thanks!
I read most of the posts on this stream. It was very useful. I had 20 people over yesterday and we served a 16 pound ribeye roast (with bones). It was the entire rack. It worked out beautifully, thanks to this site.
searing
Preheat oven to 500 degrees on convection roast(this took 30 minutes in a Wolf range due to no exposed heating elements)
put to roast in for 7 minutes, then rotate for another 7 minutes (due to the convection fans blowing hot air from the back of the oven.
roasting
I was concerned about the oven not "cooling off" fast enough from 500 degrees to 190degrees. So, I opened the oven door, took to roast out, put in the temperature probe (very handy for roasting meats), waited 5 minutes (to let to oven cool off), then put to roast back in.
I am not sure what the temperature was in the oven when I returned the roast (I do not have an oven thermometer and did not bother messing with the knob to measure the temperature). My guess is that it came down to 350 degrees or so.
I set the oven to 190 degrees, set the probe at 125 degrees internal temperature, then let it roast. Based on the posts, I thought it would take 6 hours. But after 4 hours, the temp reached 121 degrees and I pulled it out and covered it with foil. The temp raised to 132 degrees, then cooled to 110 degrees (based on instraread thermometer readings)
Thanks Larry for sharing some very important information for those that sear before roasting.
Good ovens retain heat very well.
A 500° oven may take an hour or more to fall back to the 190° roasting temperature.
Opening the door to cool the oven was a very good idea.
I was great to hear that this thread helped you put on a great feed.
Learning is what it is all about and you in turn contributed important information.
.
Within a few of the comments on this topic, several references were made to "browning" and the "Maillard reaction". As a carbohydrate chemist (retired), that is a pet peeve! LOL! The "Maillard reaction" refers specifically to reactions with sugars and amino acids/proteins. The browning reactions in meat are NOT "Maillard reactions" (unless you dredge it in flour). This misconception is so pervasive in the food sciences that it is unlikely it will ever get corrected - besides, it sounds so erudite.
Meat contains very little sugar (surprise!) - less than 0.1% What meat does have is a lot of myoglobin - it makes red meat red. White meat contains less myoglobin than dark meat; beef contains more myoglobin than pork and, pork more than chicken. You may have noticed that red meat (or dark meat) browns much more readily than white meat; beef more than pork and pork more than chicken breast.
The browning reactions for meat are from the breakdown of the myoglobin and its tetrapyrrole (porphorin) rings. The breakdown of the tetrapyrroles leads to reactions SIMILAR to those of the Maillard reaction, but very different.
Just sayin'! Engineers are not the only ones who value accuracy!
I really enjoy the 1/2 inch of herbed well done one the outside.
Old Mike
Retired Lubricant Chemist
Just stick it in the middle. Look to see how long your probe is and check the diameter of our roast. Take note of where on the probe you should stop when shoving it in (it should go in about the same distance as the radius). Now find the mid point of the length of the roast and push that probe in. If you think of the roast as a cylinder, it should go in at the middle of the long side (not the caps). Don't worry about juices leaking out - it's just one small hole, there are plenty of juices in the roast.
I am getting confused about how long to cook my PR. I want to do the 450 for 15 minutes, then how long (approx) before I start checking for the internal temp? I would like mine to be med rare?
Thanks so much
I put in the room-temperature roast in the basket over 1" of water and after an hour, noticed the outside of roast had developed a nice char, almost like the temperature inside was 450, instead of 200. No problem with the hood thermometer, it's accurate. About that time, I realized that the surface temperature of the meat was likely MUCH hotter than 200 F due to radiant heat transfer, instead of convection.
Turning off the IR burner and turning on one conventional bottom at the bottom right, I reestablished 200 degrees inside. Fortunately, my brief experiment with the IR burner did not result in a $200 disaster. Lesson learned: don't try to get fancy, stick with what has been used in the past. The roast was perfect after removing it with a Thermapen-checked internal temperature of 130 F--uniformly pink throughout. Yum!
Our beef comes from a small herd that is grass fed; all cuts are packaged in 6 mm shrink-wrapped plastic, so airtight. Because of the leaner animal, we expected the rib roast to be less tender, but this method was as easy and delicious as a conventional rib roast ordered from a reputable chef. (My only complaint was the lack of drippings/rendered fat from our roast, which seemed to be a result of its happy mountain lifestyle.)
Thanks, Michael, for the recipe!
Old Mike
Retired Lubricant Chemist
Ibidum! Just for the record, I was the author of the paragraph in the Wikipedia entry for the Maillard Reaction that contests the role of the sugars in the browning of meats. I did a Google search and I see that a lot of people have picked up on it! That's great!
I found one discussion that raised the question about glycogen content in the meat muscle. I can answer that: When the beast is slaughtered, blood is drained, oxygenation of the muscle tissue ceases, and all of the glycogen is converted to glucose for anaerobic metabolism. The glucose stores from the glycogen breakdown are rapidly metabolized to lactic acid.
Furthermore, white meat (from muscles that are not used extensively - chickens don't fly very much and pigs are lazy!) contains less myoglobin and MORE glycogen! That's because white muscle relies on anaerobic metabolism (conversion of glucose to lactic acid). Red meat contains MORE myoglobin and LESS glycogen because it relies more on aerobic metabolism to produce energy.
So, again you see a correlation. White meat should contain more residual sugar than dark meat - but it browns less! Dark meat contains more myoglobin and less sugar, but it browns MORE!
I don't know how the myth about the Maillard Reaction got incorporated into meat browning, but it is obviously wrong.
I just cooked a 14.75 lb rib roast at 180F for 6 hours to an internal temp of 120F. I expected very little carry over increase from what I read above here and from other sources. What I got was a 10 degree increase to 130F. The meat was uniformly medium rare inside, perfect, but it seems to me that carry over is much more dependent on the mass of the roast than any gradient of the internal temperature since smaller roasts cooked at high temperatures don't gain 10 degrees outside of the oven, at least in my experience.
your intuition is spot on - carry over is generated by the BTU stored in "the temperature gradient" - the bigger the diameter, the more mass involved in becoming a gradient, the more absolute BTU 'stored' for carryover.
a larger diameter roast has more mass involved in the outside to inside gradient to store more absolute heat energy - that 'stored' heat energy dissipates to the outside and to the inside. but the outside surface area does not increase linearly to the inside mass as diameter increases.
a larger roast will conduct proportionally more heat from the higher temp mass to the cooler interior than a smaller roast - the balance being lost 'to the outside'
anyway I can confirm your observation that smaller roasts exhibit less carry over cooking than larger ones.
bring roast to 42F time from fridge: 95 minutes
cook at oven temp 465F: 7 minutes
cool oven to 275F: 3 minutes
cook roast to 128F: 6 hours 10 minutes
rest: 30 minutes
result: perfection.
Thanks for the recipe and discussion!
I appreciate a right to the point, quick access and totally understandable solution. This turned out great and I appreciate the post !
Thank you Mr. Chu
Rex :)
No problem! clear as can be!
The very nice "Babe" that was serving our table, told us that the owner "Kutchie Pelaez" only uses "certified black angus western prime beef", not just for his prime rib, but for his steaks. That he even grinds it for his world famous cheese burgers, called the "goody goody, the cheese burger in paradise." I might try one of those the next time we are in Carolina but I don't think-so. That prime rib would be very hard to beet. That young lady told us that Mr. Pelaez was a beef expert and that he age all his beef on premises n his own storage facilities. I told her I was very impressed and the proof was in the pudding and that was the finest prime rib that I have ever eaten. A great baked potato, a fresh garden salad. Top all that off with "The Best Key Lime Pie in the World" and you've just eaten better that a 10-star dinner. Oh and the Island Drinks that this place servers are second to none, they will knock you on your ass if you are not careful, no watered down drinks at Kutchie's Place. Just the Best Damn Food and Drinks you can get anywhere in the world.
.....Terri Moran,....Los Vegas
I don't like the high heat/slow cook method, so I went with a straight up 210 degree (F) oven for the hole time.
I let the roast stand overnight in it's cryo-pack and when I put it in the oven, it was at an internal temp of 69 degree F. I started the roast at 12:30 pm at 210 degree F. The roast was at 131 degrees at 4:45 pm. I turned the oven down to 170 degrees to slow it down, and ended up turning it off around 5:30 when the internal temp was around 135. It went up to 136 in the oven that was turned off over the next 20-30 minutes.
I pulled it out and started carving a around 6:00 pm....to VERY awesom results. The whole rost was perfectly medium rare. The very center was medium rare to rare....
It was the first time I had cooked a whole rib roast...and I would do it the same in a heart beat.
I think the biggest difference in cook time is made by how much time it is allowed to come to room temp. If you take it out of the fridge at 45 degrees, it will take closer to 6 hours. If you let is sit overnight as I did - I think the target time is much closer to five hours.
BTW - this is the BEST page for information and discussion about baking, broiling, smoking, and just plain cooking a rib roast (prime rib) that I hav EVER come across.
Thank YOU!
Travis.