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Chef's Knives Rated

by Michael Chu
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Chances are you've used a knife that doesn't seem to do what it was made to do: cut. When you start to cut, the knife slips on the food or twists in your hand so your cuts aren't straight. Sometimes, the knife doesn't even cut - it crushes the food instead. Obviously, the solution is to sharpen the knife, but what if the knife just isn't any good? Buying an expensive knife should guarantee good performance, right? I tested eleven different chef's knives with prices ranging from under $30 to over $200.

I recommend looking at the Equipment & Gear: Knife Parts article to get an idea of what to look for in general when selecting a knife. We'll also be using the terminology laid out in that article to identify knife parts.

If you don't want to read the whole article then jump down to the Conclusions.

What brands were tested?
Each of the chef's knives tested was selected for a reason.

I started with Henckels and Wüsthof - the two most popular "high-end" chef's knives available in the United States. These are the manufacturers that have been pushed as quality cutlery at most home kitchen supply stores. (The knives tested were the Henckels Pro-S and the Wusthof Classic. Both companies produce lower quality, budget lines that are inferior to their high-end knives. Heckels manufacturers, under the premium branding of Zwilling J.A. Henckels, the Pro-S, Four Star, Five Star, and Twin collections. Wüsthof-Trident makes the Classic, Grand Prix series, Culinar, and Le Cordon Bleu lines as their premium knives.)

I then added the R.H. Forshner / Victorinox chef's knife as a relatively low cost entry. This knife was the Cook's Illustrated Editor's Choice in their knife testing (actually, it's from the same family - I wasn't able to figure out exactly which knife was tested by Cook's Illustrated without a model number).

The Global cook's knife was included because they are the most popular Japanese kitchen knives available to the average American consumer. In the last several years they have made a big impression with their stainless steel handles and imposing presence in stores like Sur La Table, Williams-Sonoma, and, most recently, Bed Bath & Beyond.

The Kershaw Shun is another Japanese manufactured line that has practically leaped onto the stage. Described by Cook's Illustrated as the "Cadillac" of chef's knives and personally endorsed by Alton Brown, I had to include it in the roundup. The Shun was also a personal favorite of mine (as expressed in the Equipment & Gear: Kitchen Knives article).

I then included one more well-known brand - Cutco. Cutco is not sold in stores but is instead marketed in the U.S. through a referral based direct marketing method (similar to the old party system). The Cutco claim is that they are the best selling high-end kitchen knife manufactured in the United States.

The other knives I included are not as well-known, but are well respected: MAC, Tojiro, and Nenox. I attempted to contact several other knife manufacturers (including Kyocera for their ceramic chef's knife) but failed to receive a response (and I had reached my limit on knives I was willing to buy for this test).

Test procedure
All of the knives were tested out-of-the-box because I made the assumption that most readers will not be hand sharpening their knives. (In addition, once a knife has been sharpened, it would be difficult to compare the performance of the knives because of the added factor of the sharpener's skill and equipment.)

I started off with the desire to measure the physical dimensions of the knives: thickness of spine at bolster and at tip and angle of bevel at the cutting edge. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to measure the angle of bevel to any degree of accuracy (most of the knives taper to the edge and the actual bevel is over a very short distance of perhaps a millimeter). I did use calipers to measure the spine thickness at two points on each knife and determined that the thickness of the spine does not affect the cutting performance (it may play a role in other factors to be considered when selecting a knife, like weight). The knives were also weighed.

The rest of the testing was focused on subjective cutting performance. I spent a month thinking about how I would set up an apparatus to make objective measurements, but couldn't come up with a feasible test that did not seem contrived and too abstract to compare to how a knife would actually be used in the kitchen. As such, I settled on making the subjective testing as "accurate" as possible, performing the same cuts over and over again with the knives. First all the knives were subjected to the particular cutting test and roughly ranked against each other. Then knives close together in the ranking order repeated the cutting test (often alternating cuts) until I could determine if one was noticeable superior to the other or they were pretty much equal in performance. Prior to each cutting test, the knives were steeled to realign their edges.

Test 1: Carrot Test
Description: Unpeeled carrots were cut in two different ways. The first method started by positioning the carrot parallel to the counter and driving the heel of the knife into the carrot at a 30° (from horizontal) angle. The blade was driven in (like a wedge) for about 2 mm, enough for the knife to stay in place. The knife was then pulled from heel to tip along that groove. The motion was completed with no conscious downward pressure. The result was examined - a sharp knife would be able to slice cleanly through the carrot, a duller knife might slice through most of the way but end with the carrot snapping off, while a very dull knife would simply slide in the groove. The second test method involved cutting thin (1 mm or less) cross-sectional slices from the carrot. The slicing was accomplished by starting the tip (about an inch from the point) of the knife on the surface of the carrot and pushing the knife forward and down (usually traversing only a couple inches) to cut through. The effort required to cut through as well as the cleanliness of the cut were compared to rank the knives.

Test 2: Potato Test
Description: A potato was first cut in half along its major axis (long side). A potato half was then set down on the cutting board with its cut side down to keep the potato from rolling or moving during the test. Thin slices of potato were cut off by starting the tip on the surface of the potato and pushing the knife forward. This technique was used to perform the majority of the ranking based on effort needed to cut through, cleanliness of cut, and how straight the cut was. In cases where it was difficult to determine if one knife was superior to another with similar performance, a reverse stroke was used as well: the stroke started with the heel of the knife and the knife was pulled back without any additional downward effort.

Test 3: Tomatoes
Description: This is a very popular demonstration (although I'm not sure why - I've only seen extremely dull knives perform badly with tomatoes). Because, in my experience, all knives cut tomatoes reasonably well, I focused on the feel of the knife during the cut. Specifically, I watched for any slipping while cutting and the level of ease with which the knife slid through the tomato. None of the tomatoes were crushed, were mangled, or lost excessive juice during the test. The tomato was first cut in half through its axis of symmetry (through the stem to the tip) and laid down to prevent rolling. The heel of the knife was placed on the skin and the knife was pulled back allowing the weight of the knife to help the blade slide through the tomato.

Test 4: Scallions
Description: The greens of fresh scallions were thinly sliced into circles using both a mincing motion (keeping the point anchored on the cutting board and pushing the heel of the blade down) and a short slicing motion (placing the point on the board and the scallions under the middle of the knife and sliding the knife forward about an inch). Both actions were repeated for several seconds as scallions were fed under the knife with the left hand. Both the feel of the knife and the cleanliness of the chopped scallions (clean cuts or signs of crushing, bruising, or tearing) were taken into account in this test.

The Knives (in alphabetic order)
Cutco 9-1/4" French Chef
Most common price: $104 (available through a Cutco representative)
Weight: 8.30 oz. (236 g)
Spine thickness: 12/128 in. (2.4 mm) @ bolster; 5/128 in. (1.0 mm) @ tip


Henckels 31021-200 Pro-S 8-in. Chef's Knife
Most common price: $90 (amazon.com)
Weight: 9.30 oz. (264 g)
Spine thickness: 8/128 in. (1.6 mm) @ bolster; 5/128 in. (1.0 mm) @ tip


Global G-2 20cm Cook's Knife
Most common price: $86 (amazon.com); $86 (MetroKitchen)
Weight: 5.85 oz. (165 g)
Spine thickness: Not yet measured


MAC MBK-85 MAC Mighty Chef 8.5"
Most common price: $120 (amazon.com); $120 (MAC Knife)
Weight: 7.25 oz. (206 g)
Spine thickness: 13/128 in. (2.6 mm) @ bolster; 4/128 in. (0.8 mm) @ tip


MAC MTH-80 MAC Mighty Chef 8" with dimples
Most common price: $100 (Cutlery and More); $110 (amazon.com)
Weight: 6.45 oz. (183 g)
Spine thickness: 12/128 in. (2.4 mm) @ bolster; 8/128 in. (1.6 mm ) @ tip


Nenox S1 210mm Gyuto
Most common price: $261 (JapaneseChefsKnife.com); $270 (Nenohi)
Weight: 6.30 oz. (178 g)
Spine thickness: Not yet measured


RH Forschner Victorinox 40521 Fibrox 10-in. Chef's Knife
Most common price: $29 (amazon.com)
Weight: 7.85 oz. (223 g)
Spine thickness: 12/128 in. (2.4 mm) @ bolster; 5/128 in. (1.0 mm) @ tip


Shun Classic DMO706 8 in. Chef's Knife
Most common price: $120 (MetroKitchen); $124 (amazon.com)
Weight: 7.50 oz. (212 g)
Spine thickness: 12/128 in. (2.4 mm) @ bolster; 6/128 in. (1.2 mm) @ tip


Tojiro DP F-808 21cm Gyoto Chef's Knife (60 Rockwell)
Most common price: $50 (JapaneseChefsKnife.com), $59 (Korin), $97 (Jorgensen International); $100 (various shops in Japantown, San Francisco, CA)
Weight: 6.30 oz. (179 g)
Spine thickness: 8/128 in. (1.6 mm) @ bolster; 6/128 in. (1.2 mm) @ tip


Tojiro Powdered High Speed F520 21cm Gyoto Pro Chef's Knife (62 Rockwell)
Most common price: $130 (JapaneseChefsKnife.com); $250 (Jorgensen International)
Weight: 6.65 oz. (189 g)
Spine thickness: 8/128 in. (1.6 mm) @ bolster; 5/128 in. (1.0 mm) @ tip


Wusthof 4582 Classic 20 cm. Cook's Knife
Most common price: $95 (amazon.com)
Weight: 8.80 oz. (249 g)
Spine thickness: 17/128 in. (3.4 mm) @ bolster; 5/128 in. (1.0 mm) @ tip


Knife Performance Rankings
I've numerically ranked each knife starting with "1" as the best performing knife. Knives with the same ranking are so close in performance that I was not able to differentiate between the knives. Please note that these numbers are for ranking only and are not a relative performance level (for example the difference between a 1 & 2 ranking may be much smaller than the performance difference between a 5 & 6). Knives of the same ranking are listed in alphabetic order.

In addition to relative ranks, a rating is assigned to each knife: U - Unacceptable; S - Serviceable; E - Excellent; O - Outstanding.

Unacceptable knives do not cut as expected. Either the cuts were not clean (requiring excessive force or multiple strokes) or the blade bruised or crushed the ingredient to an unacceptable degree. Serviceable knives performed their cutting action as expected. There is nothing exceptional about the knife - it simply performs as you'd expect an average knife to perform. More force is needed when using a serviceable knife than an excellent or outstanding one. Excellent knives slice with ease. The knives are properly balanced and sharp enough to feel as if the user is simply guiding the knife and the knife is performing the cutting. Outstanding knives simply perform beyond all expectations. The knife's cutting ability is noticeably better than that of an excellent knife.

These rankings do not take in account other factors such as cost, handle shape, and weight. They simply portray the cutting performance of the knife.

Carrot test
RankKnifeNotes
O1Global G-2Felt effortless as the knife slid through the carrots.
2MAC 8.0" with dimplesCleanly cut through carrots.
MAC 8.5"Cleanly cut through carrots.
E3Tojiro DPCleanly cut through carrots.
Tojiro PHSCleanly cut through carrots.
4Nenox S1Cleanly cut through carrots.
5Shun ClassicCleanly cut through carrots.
6ForschnerCleanly cut through carrots.
S7Wusthof ClassicMost cuts were clean.
8Henckels Pro-SSome tearing occurred when cutting through the carrot.
U9CutcoFirst carrot test did not cut through. Second carrot test yielded several pieces where the carrot was broken or torn off after cutting about 60% through.

Potato test
RankKnifeNotes
O1Global G-2
2MAC 8.0" with dimplesForward stroke is same as MAC 8.5", but reverse stroke cut noticably deeper and easier.
3MAC 8.5"
Tojiro DP
E4Nenox S1Hard a smoother feel while cutting that other knives, but required more force than Tojiro DP.
Tojiro PHS
5Shun Classic
6ForschnerSlight sticky feeling as it sliced through the potato.
S7Wusthof Classic
8Henckels Pro-S
U9CutcoHard to make straight slices (cut line curves outward at bottom of stroke - a trait of a dull knife).

Tomato test
RankKnifeNotes
E1Global G-2Glides through tomato
MAC 8.0" with dimplesGlides through tomato
2MAC 8.5"Glides through tomato
Nenox S1Glides through tomato
Shun ClassicGlides through tomato
Tojiro DPGlides through tomato
Tojiro PHSGlides through tomato
3ForschnerGlides through tomato
S4Wusthof Classic
5CutcoThe cutting edge grips the tomato skin easily and as the knife is drawn through the tomato, it feels like a micro-serrated knife.
6Henckels Pro-SBlade slipped slightly before catching and cutting through the tomato.

Scallions test
RankKnifeNotes
O1MAC 8.0" with dimplesExtremely clean cuts.
MAC 8.5"Extremely clean cuts.
2Global G-2Extremely clean cuts.
E3Shun ClassicCuts scallions cleanly.
Tojiro DPCuts scallions cleanly.
Tojiro PHSCuts scallions cleanly.
4Nenox S1Cuts scallions cleanly.
S5ForschnerVery slight tearing.
6Henckels Pro-SSlight tearing during rapid chopping.
Wusthof ClassicSlight tearing during rapid chopping.
U7CutcoCompletely fails test. Scallions were crushed and torn.

Examining pure performance, the Global G-2 is the best of the bunch. However, the MAC places a very, very close second (with the 8-in. with dimples [MTH-80] coming out just a bit better than the 8.5-in. without dimples [MBK-85]). In fact, all three are exceptional performing knives.

Other factors
However, the purchase of a knife should not be based solely on its cutting performance. Other important factors to consider are up to the individual chef. Handle design may be the most important factor when buying a knife. If the handle doesn't feel comfortable, then chances are you won't be comfortable using the knife. A handle that feels comfortable in one grip may be uncomfortable when gripped another way. Unfortunately, this means I can't tell you which knife handle is best for you. I recommend going to a store where you can actually hold the knife. A store like Sur La Table, where you can practice a slicing motion on a cutting board, is your best bet for picking the right knife.

Another factor to consider is how the knife feels with your particular cutting motion. If the knife delivers a lot of shock to your hand as you chop or slice, you may want to seek out a slightly different design. For example, the two MAC knives have slightly different feels even though, visually, they seem to have identical curvatures. The general balance of the knife should feel nice to your particular style as well. Choosing a knife that is comfortable to you will help ensure that you won't wear yourself out when you have to do a lot of cutting.

I find that the Global G-2, although very light and an excellent performer, just doesn't fit my hand as comfortably as some of the other knives. The relatively thin handle and shallow taper to the blade makes holding the knife slightly awkward for me. I prefer a grip where my hand is choked up on the handle a bit allowing my thumb and forefinger to rest on opposite sides of the blade just in front of the bolster lip. The design of the Global knives just doesn't seem to let me grip that way and keep the knife from trying to twist out from under me. For that reason, my personal preference is the MAC MTH-80 MAC Mighty Chef 8" with dimples.

The styling and finished look of a knife is very important to many. For example, the Global G-2 has a very distinct look at many will find compliments the decor of their kitchens. The fit and finish of the Nenox S1 is one of the best I've ever seen. I find that the handle feels wonderful in my hand and also looks beautiful. In addition, the Nenox has some more detail work than the mass produced knives - for example, the spin of the knife has been carefully rounded and smoothed. (However, the bolster lip of the Nenox is a sharp right angle causing it to be a little more difficult to use.)

A final factor that I'm going to mention is the care of the knives. Although, many of the knives claim to be dishwasher safe, none of the knives should actually be washed in a dishwasher, except two - the Forschner Fibrox and the Cutco French Chef's will easily survive multiple cycles in a dish washing machine. You do need to make sure the blade will not bounce around or touch other objects in the dishwasher. The Cutco knife's handle may change color after several washes in the machine. My recommendation for all knives is to hand wash them and dry them immediately with a clean cloth.


Conclusions
Cooking For Engineers Recommended:
MAC MTH-80 MAC Mighty Chef 8" with dimples ($110)


Overall best performance regardless of price:
Global G-2 20cm Cook's Knife ($86)
MAC MTH-80 MAC Mighty Chef 8" with dimples ($110)
MAC MBK-85 MAC Mighty Chef 8.5" ($120)

Best Value (Price for Performance):
RH Forschner Victorinox 40521 Fibrox 10-in. Chef's Knife ($29)
Please note that this knife does not fit in a standard knife block because the blade height is 2-1/8 inches (5.4 cm) and most knife block have slots for 2 inch (5.1 cm) knives. Victorinox does manufacture the equivalent knife with a 2-inch heel in an 8-in. length.

Best Value for Almost Outstanding Performance:
Tojiro DP F-808 21cm Gyoto Chef's Knife ($50)
When purchased from JapaneseChefsKnife.com, this Tojiro knife becomes an amazing bargain. When purchased from other vendors at higher cost, you might as well get a Global or MAC. This knife is also available from Korin Japanese Trading Corp. for $59.

Final notes of interest
Most salespeople working at the cutlery counter of your local stores will tell you that a forged knife is a sign of a strong sturdy knife and any forged knife is superior to a stamped knife. This may have been true in the past, but this is definitely no longer a universal truth. The two MAC knives tested in this article are stamped knives with bolsters that are welded on, ground, and polished. MAC Knife claims that using the stamped steel gives them a level of control over the tempering, the bevels, and the thinness of the blade. I don't know if all that's true, but I do know that the two chef's knives we tested out performed all of the forged knives. Ah, but, you argue, the MAC knives tied or were slightly beaten by the Global G-2? The Global G-2 is also a stamped knife.

Also, as a sanity check, I had several people come over and try out the MAC 8-in. with dimples along with several of the other knives shown in this article. Every single tester agreed that the MAC was the best knife that they had ever used.


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Written by Michael Chu
Published on November 19, 2005 at 02:43 AM
163 comments on Chef's Knives Rated:(Post a comment)

On November 19, 2005 at 11:11 AM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: A few words...
This article was actually started early August when I started to round up the knives for the testing. I was hoping to have testing done by the end of September, but because of delays in communication with Yoshikin (the manufacturer of Global knives) and Kyocera (who's ceramic knives public relation e-mail doesn't work), I didn't get the final knife until the middle of October (I just went and bought it).

The tests were performed over two days (two Saturdays) and meticulous notes were kept. After the first day of testing, I really didn't want to continue with the article because I didn't want to deal with continuously washing and drying eleven knives and performing all the comparisons over and over (mainly due to limited counter space). By the end of the first two tests, I already knew which knives were probably going to come out on top - but I needed to finish the testing and documenting to prove it. Tina helped considerably the second day of testing by taking notes for me as I dictated while slicing and chopping. (I also cleared off the dining room table so I would only have to wash all the knives between tests instead of everytime I ran out of space.)

The write up took a lot longer than I expected, and technically I don't think I'm really done. The article took about five days to write, and I still remember more stuff that I want to add - so don't be surprised if the article changes to become a bit more detailed or clearer as time goes on.

Anyway, I hope my readers will find this article informative and interesting.


On November 19, 2005 at 07:19 PM, jagstyle said...
Excellent article!

I'd love to read another test when you've had a chance to sharpen them on the Nortons. I rarely have a knife come from the factory/maker with a satisfactory edge, especially Tojiros. If you were to use your stones and put the same 8000grit edge on each knife I think you would be able to do a test that exposed the differences in the quality of the steel. Just a thought...


On November 20, 2005 at 04:05 AM, an anonymous reader said...
that guy's right, factory sharpening is rarely up to snuff.
The tomato skin test, for example, is based entirely on the sharpness of the knife.
I'm a big Henckels/Wustoff fan, I have a few that I give regular love and maintenance and they could split a hair.

The only knife that is exempt from my criticism is Cutco which is supposed to never need sharpening. (overpriced garbage)


On November 20, 2005 at 05:04 PM, guest (guest) said...
I'm really curious to see how well your knives hold up over time. For instance, the Forschner Victorinox knife (from what I can tell) is not full-tang, and I have had experience with such things coming apart at the handle. I'm also curious if you're going to have to resharpen some of your top-of-the-list knives more often. Can you do some kind of repetetive motion testing?


On November 21, 2005 at 05:31 AM, Howard said...
The cutting tests mostly depend on sharpness and edge geometry, which is why the Japanese[-style] knives tended to perform better than the Western knives. I think if they all had their edge profiles reshaped and edges sharpened so that the edges were exactly the same, they would perform identically.

Then comes the matter of the steel. Japanese knives have harder steel than Western knives do, which increases wear resistance at the expense of brittleness (proportional to the hardness). This means that Japanese knives tend to hold their edges longer than Western knives do, and because the blades are thinner, they cut more easily.

Personally, I would have loved to see a Chinese cleaver (Chan Chi Kee, Suien, Nenox, etc.) included in the mix.

Misono UX-10, stamped blade

http://knifeoutlet.com/revolution.htm


On November 21, 2005 at 08:09 AM, Michael Chu said...
Fuji Cutlery, the manufacturer of Tojiro, sent me an e-mail recommending U.S. buyers to use Korin Japanese Trading Corp. for best convenience.


On November 21, 2005 at 03:34 PM, seanmpuckett (guest) said...
Subject: Factory Sharp
I was disappointed (to the point of shaking my head in disbelief) that you tested the knives as supplied by the factory. Any knife in regular service is going to lose its factory edge very quickly and wind up with an edge corresponding to the sharpening technique -- so the relevance of testing the factory edge is marginal.

The review would have been much stronger if you had used a well regarded local sharpening service or a consitent, repeatable system (such as the Australian Furi hones) to bring all of the knives to the same edge.

Consistent sharpening does not lead to consistent performance. Blade hardness, composition, bevel geometry, weight, and thickness all play a part in how well a knife cuts.

I highly recommend you re-release this review (which is of marginal utility at this point) after re-conducting it with consistently sharpened blades.

Great <i>idea</i> though. I was really looking forward to reading it.


On November 21, 2005 at 09:36 PM, an anonymous reader said...
:huh: I appreciate all the information on kitchen knives. I would like to ask if anyone has experience with the knives offered by A.G. Russell at www.agrussell.com?
They are offering Damascus kitchen knives w/VG-10 core, A.G. Russell kitchen knives w/wood Rucarta handles and KAI kitchen knives.
How do these compare with Henckels, Wusthof or the MAC MTH-80 you recommend?


On November 22, 2005 at 02:23 AM, Howard said...
Anonymous wrote:
:huh: I appreciate all the information on kitchen knives. I would like to ask if anyone has experience with the knives offered by A.G. Russell at www.agrussell.com?
They are offering Damascus kitchen knives w/VG-10 core, A.G. Russell kitchen knives w/wood Rucarta handles and KAI kitchen knives.
How do these compare with Henckels, Wusthof or the MAC MTH-80 you recommend?

I'm not a fan of full bolsters, but I've heard good things about A.G. Russell and VG-10 steel.


On November 22, 2005 at 03:12 AM, an anonymous reader said...
I have put my set of Forschner Victorinox knives through many years of hard daily use, and they hold up remarkably well. No problems with the handles. They take and keep an edge.

I think it bears noting that the reviewer bought these at a restaurant supply store. Knives used in industry are different from those used by amateur chefs. They are meant to be abused, run through the sterilizing dishwasher, and so on. These knives conspicuously display the NSF logo for the health inspector to see.

I have had fancier and more expensive knives, and I may try some of those reviewed here. But, I can absolutely say that the Forschner Victorinox are great knives at a bargain price.


On November 22, 2005 at 04:34 AM, john@knives.itemblogs.com said...
Subject: Impressive review
I disagree with the commenter who thought this rating was somehow faulty because you evaluated the knives using the factory edge. First of all, if he's really that anal to demand your review included custom sharpening of each knife then perhaps he should just spend the time to do his own review.

Second, thanks for the tip on the Mac knife, a brand I have never used but have now added to my Amazon wishlist.


On November 22, 2005 at 02:20 PM, fgf60 (guest) said...
Subject: my $.02
As I was a chef for 18 years, then a computer network design, I feel that I can speak on this topic.
1) The most important part of a knife is the hand that holds it
2) A knife is a very personal ,every one has there likes and dislikes
3) A factory edge should be sufficient for any home user, We only had our knifes sharpened 1 a week, honing is important
4) All knifes tested here are GOOD knifes, this falls into personal taste, grip, hand size, weight and a mired of other factors.


On November 22, 2005 at 04:58 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Interesting write up Michael. This should be an ongoing test. I would also review the Cooks Illustrated knife tests to see how they worked testing as well. I would also highly recommend that all the knives be sent off to a reputable sharpener who can put a quality edge on all the knives - at least then all the makers are on the same playing field as far as edge goes. After that, they can all be steeled before use which should last the duration of any further testing. I do think the testing is a bit biased because knives are very personal - the more people you can include the better. Different hand sizes, male/female. I think continued testing and updates are definitely warranted.


On November 22, 2005 at 07:38 PM, Martin (guest) said...
Subject: anyone with ceramic knife experience?
Great article, my eyes lit up when I heard you were going to review the Kyocera ceramic knife.
I have "heard" great things but wanted some objective opinions. Anyone care to comment or would Mike be willing to test some cereamics down the road?

Sounds like for now, the MAC will top my wish list.


On November 23, 2005 at 03:00 AM, Ruth (guest) said...
Subject: MAC Knives
I have had a set of the original Mac knive since the Mid 70's. They are the best knives I have ever found and they require minimal sharpening on the special ceramic stones they have. I just purchases some new "better" Mac Knives and my husband promptly cut off the fat pad portion of his finger requiring a trip to the emergency room. REALLY Sharp knives - right out of the box.


On November 23, 2005 at 08:02 AM, Jim (guest) said...
Subject: Ergonomics
Excellent review, Michael. I am wondering if you can add more comments about the feel of the different knives. For example, how they balanced (tip-heavy, neutral, handle-heavy), the ergonomics of the handles (size, feel of material, shape), and the curvature and width of the blades as it affect use (for example, the wider more pronounced belly of the German/Swiss brands versus the narrower straighter profile on most of the Japanese blades). While it's true that preference on each of these is a personal matter, some description and comparison here between the different knives will nevertheless be very valuable.

Also, I didn't follow your comment about the "shallow taper" to the Global's blade. Are you referring to the curvature of its blade? However, the MAC's don't look any more curved; in fact, the MTH-80 seems to an almost flat cutting edge (like a santoku).


On November 23, 2005 at 10:16 PM, CUTCO Owner (guest) said...
Subject: French Chef Knife
Though I am a very satisfied owner of CUTCO knives, I am not surprised by the results of your testing. The French Chef knife is the one CUTCO knife in my set that I do not particularly care to use. Unlike most other CUTCO knives, the French Chef does not have a Double-D edge. As a result, it requires regular sharpening.

In a previous comment, someone stated that the CUTCO knife
Quote:
is supposed to never need sharpening.
That is not true. CUTCO's forever sharpness guarantee only states that
Quote:
CUTCO knives with the Double-D edge will remain sharp for many years, but after extended use they may need resharpening. For resharpening of Double-D or straight-edged knives, send them along with a return shipping and handling fee of $5.00 (1-3 items) or $8.00 (4 or more items) to... CUTCO...
(http://www.cutco.com/jsp/customer/guarantee.jsp)

As an owner of CUTCO knives, I know that my straight-edged knives need regular sharpening. I did not purchase my set because I need a top performing Chef's knife. I purchased my set because the CUTCO steak and carving knives (with Double-D edges) cut well and are a pleasure for me to use.


On November 24, 2005 at 10:40 AM, Torq (guest) said...
Subject: Hang on a bit ...
Good test, one thing though. You said that you'd steeled them all prior to testing, to realign the edge. I hope that doesn't mean you steeled the japanese knives as well? That's rarely a good idea. If you did, I sure hope you used a ceramic steel ...
/Torq


On November 30, 2005 at 02:06 AM, an anonymous reader said...
why should one not steel a mac knife? just bout two chef knives from mac, a diamond steel and a japanese water stone for sharpening it. all from a very reputable chef store in NYC. Please tell me what to do if you have correct information please.


On November 30, 2005 at 06:02 AM, jagstyle said...
Subject: Steels
Anonymous wrote:
why should one not steel a mac knife? just bout two chef knives from mac, a diamond steel and a japanese water stone for sharpening it. all from a very reputable chef store in NYC. Please tell me what to do if you have correct information please.


On hard Japanese blades I would only use glass smooth or very fine ceramic steels like the ones found here:

http://www.handamerican.com/steel3.html

With coarsely textured steels one has a very high risk of damaging a hard Japanese blade...

Personally I have avoided steels and use my highest grit polishing stone (8000) or flatbed leather hone to bring an edge back to life.

If the diamond steel you bought is very fine and is not harsh on the edge then I think you will be in good shape. I would advise using as little pressure as possible when using the steel. The weight of the knife is more than enough...


On November 30, 2005 at 02:53 PM, an anonymous reader said...
I was a big Forschner Victorinox fan for many years. However, I grew tired of sharpening them after every major usage. Several years ago, I found a deal on Wusthof Grand Prix knives overseas and purchased a set. Believe me, the factory edge on these knives was not up to par. Sharpening them made a major difference in their performance immediately. However, I had to get use to the heft of the Grand Prix's verses the Victorinox's light weight. About a year ago, I purchased a Henckels Four Star Multi-edge 8" chef's knife. The blade has a 3" wavy edge section about a third of the way back from the tip. This knife was razor sharp right out of the box and the larger handle was more to my liking. I still have yet to sharpen this knife, I just steel it before each use. The wavy edge really is a great feature in that I can cut with the tip, slice easily with the wavy edge portion and chop with the rear portion. So I would suggest, as others already have, that you have all these knives sharpened and test again. You might also test utilizing others in order to analize handle shape and weight preferences. I am very happy to have found your article.


On December 01, 2005 at 03:57 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Could someone comment on ways to find a good knife sharpener? I don't have any friends in around me that have sent anything to a knife sharpener before.


On December 01, 2005 at 07:45 PM, Howard said...
Anonymous wrote:
Could someone comment on ways to find a good knife sharpener? I don't have any friends in around me that have sent anything to a knife sharpener before.

Get some good stones and learn how to do it yourself. It's a very rewarding skill.

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/ward.htm

That should get you started. Of course, if you don't want to do it freehand, or if you want to start off with a guide, there are several good sharpening systems available, the premier being the EdgePro Apex or Pro model.


On December 02, 2005 at 12:50 AM, an anonymous reader said...
I find this site has a couple of options for sharpeners and blade care. http://www.eknives.com/knife-sharpeners.html
Solid products and prices, and a few options depending on your need and skill


On December 02, 2005 at 06:59 PM, Sandra Mostacci (guest) said...
I very much appreciate this article, it is one of the better knife comparisons that I have come across.

Having said that, I do have a criticsm. It is not a fair comparison to compare knives with a factory edge. Some manufactuorers intentionally leave the knive a little blunt for safety in transportation. You cannot get a like-for-like comparison with a factory edge because you can't know that they all have comparably sharp (or blunt) edges out of the factory.

I own a couple of Whustof knives and the difference between factory edge and newly sharpened is night and day. They are one company that has a policy of keeping the knives rather blunt and I did have cutting issues with them out of the factory.

I don't agree with the authors assertion that people reading this article and buying knives at this price are the sort of people who use the knives with a factory edge. I think most people reading this article are likely to be rather geeky about their knives.

To me, a good knife is also about how it performs over time and how well it does re-sharpen over and over again. Though I do appreciate the difficulty of defining and measuring this attribute. At a minimum I would love to see what would happen if all these knives where taken to a reputable knife sharper and the tests re-done.

The favourite knife was also the only knife to be bevelled. I wonder if that was the difference? Anyone got any thoughts on that?


On December 03, 2005 at 04:21 PM, Keith Chisholm (guest) said...
Subject: Knife Review Comments
:unsure: I just visited this site for the first and loved it. However, I was really surprised at how low you rated the Henckel Pro-S. I have been using Henckel Four Star knives for going on seven years now and as a previous comment mentioned I can split hairs with them and I have never done anything other than steel the knives and I do not do that very often. I'll keep my mind open though and check out some of those knives you rated high including the MAC MTH-80.


On December 03, 2005 at 05:10 PM, Gregory (guest) said...
Subject: Knife Review
What most people want to do is complain. They didn't bother to take the time and spend the money to conduct this exhaustive test.

That said, however, the best advice one can give for knife selection is: choose one that feels best in your hand. It is 100% subjective. It does you no benefit to buy a top rated knife that causes blisters.

All knives will get the job done. Over time how you treat the knife is up to you.


On December 04, 2005 at 04:27 PM, an anonymous reader said...
If you are testing knives for engineers, you should add the Furi brand to you tests: http://furitechnics.com.au/

The company is run by engineers and the knives are designed by engineers, they consistently rate highly in reviews, I have two and they are the most comfortable and best performing knives I have ever used.


On December 09, 2005 at 09:26 PM, A Kitchen Enthusiast (guest) said...
Subject: A woman's perspective
I enjoyed your article, and was amused that the Global came out on top, because that is the brand I am a fan of. It is DEFINITELY an individual thing to choose a knife, because as a left-handed woman, I find some knives waaaay too heavy, or difficult to grip (Shun's handle is made for right-handed people).

As an aside for the Anonymous Reader who bought a diamond steel, go easy on that blade. Diamond steels do more than just realign the blade. They will sharpen/take away matter when you rub the blade against them. Some knives can't be sharpened by a regular steel, so I'm not saying they steered you wrong, it's just a little trickier with a diamond/ceramic steel to accomplish what you need. And you will only ruin any blade if you don't know how to hold it at a proper angle to sharpen/hone it. So get some education, because it definitely is a worthwhile skill to acquire. Happy sharpening!


On December 09, 2005 at 10:01 PM, Michael Chu said...
Subject: Re: A woman's perspective
A Kitchen Enthusiast wrote:
It is DEFINITELY an individual thing to choose a knife, because as a left-handed woman, I find some knives waaaay too heavy, or difficult to grip (Shun's handle is made for right-handed people).


It should be worth noting that Shun Classic knives are available in left-handed models as well:
Chef's Resource's Left Handed Shun Catalog
Cutlery & More: Shun 8-in. Chef's for Left Handers

Not all stores carry them.


On December 10, 2005 at 01:38 AM, McDee said...
Subject: Re: A woman's perspective
A Kitchen Enthusiast wrote:
It is DEFINITELY an individual thing to choose a knife, because as a left-handed woman, I find some knives waaaay too heavy, or difficult to grip (Shun's handle is made for right-handed people).


I agree with the individuality issue you mention. I recently picked up a left-handed Shun and love it. ;)


On December 11, 2005 at 10:30 PM, drb said...
Subject: food service knives
Interesting article.

I've found that food service knives are the best balance between cost and function- the steel is decent and you can get a chef's knife for $40. I've used my Dexter-Russell set for ~5 years now- even though periodically someone has thrown them in the dishwasher or left them in a pan of water overnight. They're a bit hard to find- I go to a resturant supply store.

http://www.dexter-russell.com/Search_details.asp?id=639&group_name=sofgrip.asp

R/


On December 12, 2005 at 07:38 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Knife Sharpening
Sharpening knives is an art that can be learned, just as cooking can be learned.

Go to Razor Edge for tools and techniques to learn how to sharpen your knives yourself the correct and safe way.

The guys on here can make an ax sharp enough to shave with. You can make your knives sharp enough to be safe and efficient.


On December 13, 2005 at 12:11 AM, DanO (guest) said...
Subject: Chef's Choice
I have used many chefs knives over the years and like the Chef's Choice 6" chefs knife the best. It is very heavy, and takes and keeps an edge very nicely when sharpened with the Chef's Choice sharpener. Just my 2 cents...


On December 13, 2005 at 02:51 AM, NUKIE (guest) said...
Subject: Knives, some sharp, some not
Regarding sharpening--I have the sharpening system that is a MUST for all engineers: its from Razor Edge, Box 150, Ely Minnesota, 55731. The originator (presumed owner) barn-stormed with an act of shaving with a double-bitted ax after sharpening with this system. In its simplest form, a hardened jig is clamped (with SET SCREWS!) to the back of the blade at very prescribed locations--this requires a good deal of patience and an engineer's scale (measuring down to 1/64th of an inch) to get right. The clamped jig and blade ride on the stones of your choice--mine are Japanese water in progressing grits from 120 to 8,000. The process is time-consuming, and painstaking--it can take a full football half to sharpen a single knife. I have worked for over three hours on my prize 8" Henckels Zwilling (twins)--reminds me of a commercial--to restore the edge. However, once restored it will last for a year with minor, infrequent steelings. Note Henchels welds a softer metal bolster (hosel) (spelling) to the main blade, so you often get a divot at the back of the blade--this could require serious grinder work to get the blade to hit the sharpening stone correctly. All for now! RAB


On December 13, 2005 at 03:05 PM, guest (guest) said...
Subject: Knives prices
:(
Why doesn't anyone here say it as it is? These knives are too bloody expensive!!! How many people would buy a knife that's more than $100?
or even $60? I think $50 is a good limit.


On December 13, 2005 at 04:44 PM, an anonymous reader said...
Subject: Re: Knives prices
guest wrote:
:(
Why doesn't anyone here say it as it is? These knives are too bloody expensive!!! How many people would buy a knife that's more than $100?
or even $60? I think $50 is a good limit.

Isn't that why Michael recommended the Forschner as the best value for performance at $29?


On December 13, 2005 at 08:30 PM, jagstyle said...
Subject: Re: Knives prices
guest wrote:
How many people would buy a knife that's more than $100?


lol

all the crazy knifenuts here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/ where $100 for a good knife is considered a bargain and $50 is a steal...

A beautiful knife with a "super steel" core doesn't come cheap...
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/pics/cached/copper6uy.jpg
"SANETU" Cowry X Santoku 165mm http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html

"Cowry X is the tough powdered metal alloy specially developed by Daido Steel Company for high performance cutting tools. It contains high carbon (3%) and high Chromium (20%) with 1% Molybdenum and 0.3% Vanadium, and can be heat treated to HRC63 to 67 without brittleness." - JCK

If you think the western style chef's knives reviewed on this site are expensive you probably won't believe these prices:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KDSeries.html

Traditional honyaki knives are even worse... :shock: