Microwave Safe Containers

I work for a company that is a plastics compounder - which means they getplastic directly from the nuclear power plants that cook it out of petroleum, mix it into different forms, and then ship it out to other companies that make products. The chemists that design the melts (plastic recipe runs) refuse to use 'microwave safe' or any other plastic containers in a food settling where the container gets hot.

The plastics that are labeled 'safe' for such conditions are the same plastics that would normally be unsafe, mixed with a strengthening additive. When, over the course of time and exposure to heat & other radiation, the plastic itself does not break down rapidly, but instead the additive 'takes the hit' and comes out of the container (with small quantities of plsatic).

The problem is that the strengthening additives are highly toxic - with various kinds having known connection with organ failures and nervous system problems. The safety tests done on the plastic compounds I've been able to research don't have any awareness of whether the small quantities of an additive that comes off from the plsatic container are stored in our body or pass through it. No sense of whether there is a internal system threshold for our body, even though it's known that people can reach thresholds through job exposure to some of them. ('Threshold' meaning once you're exposed to a certain amount of it you experience dramatic physiological reactions (vomiting, loss of consciousness, etc) when exposed further.

To wrap up the rest of this disclosure; I am highly sensititive to many chemicals - what is safe and/or unnoticable to other people can make me sick. For the month or two that I worked in the plastics plant (before I began telecommuting) there would be days that I would become nauseous, couldn't stay awake, sharp headaches, etc. My arguement is that the notion of a "food grade" plastic is probably best taken with a small footnote of caution (probably provided by me via this post ;)

-Zak

I thought nuclear power plants don't use petroleum - radioactive uranium or plutonium, steam, turbines, sure, but petroleum? Why did you even start witht hat "tidbit" of (mis?)information?

It makes me suspect your whole story...

Interesting article, this is exactly a topic I am interested in at the moment.


I have a large (25 kg) bag of whole wheat, that I mill at home. Any suggestions on how to store this? Food grade containers that I can find are way too expensive. Large ones do not even seem to exist in my country, and multiple small ones would cost hundreds of dollars. I now keep them in the original paper bag, and cover that with a plastic trash bag. So the grains do not actually touch the plastic. I wonder if the mill where I bought the grains stored them in food grade containers, by the way.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. The solution I now have is not ideal because mice will still eat through the trash bag, of course.

Nuclear power plants have a "waste heat" cycle, where the system is producing heat that they can't use for turbines, etc. Rather than let that heat be wasted (dissipated into the atmosphere) they use it to heat giant vats of petroluem. The heat causes the petroleum to separate into layers of material; gasoline, ployethene, other plastics, sludge, etc.

I never said the nuclear reactors use petroluem for their fuel source. I shared it because it is a fun tidbit that reveals part of the way our system works. Thanks for being polite enough to make it a question, though...


Zak

lena, had you considered finding a wooden barrel? You could inquire into a local winery as to their source of barrels, as you can then be sure the barrel is not being treated with any dangerous chemicals (and barrel-makers are hard to find outside of the wine industry these days)

Otherwise look for a large food-safe plastic bag to use as a liner in and otherwise inappropriate container.



Zak

I have a large (25 kg) bag of whole wheat, that I mill at home. Any suggestions on how to store this? Food grade containers that I can find are way too expensive. Large ones do not even seem to exist in my country, and multiple small ones would cost hundreds of dollars. I now keep them in the original paper bag, and cover that with a plastic trash bag. So the grains do not actually touch the plastic. I wonder if the mill where I bought the grains stored them in food grade containers, by the way.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. The solution I now have is not ideal because mice will still eat through the trash bag, of course.[/quote:590e0e7632]
I think I remember that in Alton Brown's book: I'm Just Here For More Food (http://snipurl.com/exjv)
He uses a metal trash can (The fancy ones you put your foot on to open the top) to store flour. Of course this goes against the advice that you use food grade containers. :?

lena wrote:
Interesting article, this is exactly a topic I am interested in at the moment.
Quote:
Also, don't brine (or store) foods in containers that are not intended for food preparation - such as a "clean/brand new" mop bucket, plastic trash bag, or trash can.


I have a large (25 kg) bag of whole wheat, that I mill at home. Any suggestions on how to store this? Food grade containers that I can find are way too expensive. Large ones do not even seem to exist in my country, and multiple small ones would cost hundreds of dollars. I now keep them in the original paper bag, and cover that with a plastic trash bag. So the grains do not actually touch the plastic. I wonder if the mill where I bought the grains stored them in food grade containers, by the way.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. The solution I now have is not ideal because mice will still eat through the trash bag, of course.


You might try going to the pet store and looking at the containers they sell to store dog/cat food. They generally hold about 40lb of kibble and cost around $35-50. :) [/quote]

Lena,
The Baker's Catalogue has a 22 quart container. Here is the page:
http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/items/item6069.html

What about using a galvanized steel can? I might be way off here, but it may be possible to store the grain in the bag inside of the steel can. Just a suggestion....good luck!

I stumbled on your fine forum searching for inexpensive containers for long term water storage (disaster preparedness). Since I like to cook I like the concept of Cooking for Engineers.

I have been using galvanized steel cans for storing bird seed and dog food on the back porch. I do use the food every day. Am I killing the wildlife and my dog?

Thanks for any feedback... :unsure:
Dianne

You can find used food grade barrel suppliers at www.pharmacal.com/recond.htm

One largish (20 qt) container that I use is a 5-gallon bucket. In particular, a 5 gallon bucket originally used to ship pickles to a fast food establishment, which they were happy to give me for free.

Considering the many plastic issues, even still I only use it for short-term cold temperature applications to reduce leaching. A wine barrel is an awesome idea. I have no idea how voluminous 25kg of wheat is.


Regarding your bird feed: I think your galvanized can is _probably_ fine, for several reasons:
1. Metals tend to be relatively nonporous and metals finishes (like galvanization) tend to be relatively robust and strong. I wouldn't necessarily sandpaper the finish and eat the dust, though.

2. You're not heating it, heating encourages everything (but especially plastics) to release all sorts of chemicals.

3. You're not soaking it. Filling something with a liquid vastly increases leeching from the container compared to storing solids, because it's easier to leech into the liquid and because the liquid will touch every last bit of the sides of the container. (A seed, for instance, will only touch a tiny piece of container but "block" a bunch more from being touched by other pieces; there are lots of tiny air pockets.)

First all plastics regardless of name brand or what have you give of chemical products that they were made from as like all chemical formulations they break down over time. What disturbs me is the lengths that the industry goes to silence any leak of facts that show microwaves are not healthy. just look at what happened to the two swiss researchers who were prosecuted for exposing the dangers of microwaved food. it was claimed they were interfering with commercial trade. fortunately the european court lifted the prosecution on appeal.
From my point of view after indepth research is never to eat anything out of a microwave oven. Im able to readily do this as im in control of my free will to decide what i eat and how its cooked, its that simple. Remember you are what you eat (what you do is what you get back, second natural law).

Let’s get a grip. Microwaving food is a good thing. Microwaves are non-ionizing, and do not leave any residual radiation of any sort. It’s good because it kills the micro organisms in the food that you are cooking or defrosting. You know the ones that can make you sick (like salmonella). Don’t use plastic, use Pyrex.

Larry

Is there any symbol used to understamp the container to show it is microwave safe?

Wine barrels are also often burned or smoked inside, to impart special flavours to wines or spirits, so barrel should be new and non-treated. And better to soak it with clean water, as barrels tend to be not airtight when newly done. Most woods also leach into the content if it's liquid. That's why oak barrels are so sought after in brandymaking.

About 25 kg -- just remember one simple estimate: 1 kilo ~ 2 pounds. So 25 kg of wheat is about 50 or 55 pounds, a size of rather largish paper bag.


If the container in question is steel, that I suspect, than it itself is rather safe, especially if laquered/enameled. But galvanization leaver the question of what coating is use. Often is is galvanized with some nonferrous metal that might be unhealthy itself, such as copper. Tin and zinc is usually best solution, but I still prefer enameled steel, as most enamels are in fact rather dense and nonporous glass compounds, are really durable an are generally food-grade from the start -- I never met non-food-grade enameled containers, in fact.

Larry, Microwaves can be used to kill microorganisms but the food would have to be kept at boiling temperature for at least ten minutes to do so. Any food that had been microwaved for ten minutes after it had reached 210 F would be pretty uneddible.

When you cook food, aside from making the flavors, textures and consistency more palatable, you kill microbes that would be found in normally healthy meat, poultry, fish and vegetables. We don't knowlingly eat contaminated or tainted food. The purpose of cooking is not to sterilize food. Sterilzed food (with the exception of soups that simmer a long time) would probably be overcooked, burned, dried out or just generally not very appetizing.

I often see this term "Microwave Safe" used on containers, plates, etc. How is this determined? Is there some sort of standard test that products must follow in order to be labeled as "Safe"? Or is there no real maning to this term?

Thanks,

Bryan Lagos
blagos@tycoint.com

In the U.S. that label can only be placed on containers that are constructed of materials that have been determined by the FDA to be safe for use in a microwave oven.

I have been unable to find any source which explains the use of petroleum as a coolant in nuclear power plants.

Could you cite one or two for me?

He didn't say that nuclear plants cool with petroleum -- most use evaporative (water) cooling, which is the purpose of the familiar concave tower. The extra heat is used to power the distillation of petroleum into components. This method of using the waste products of whatever generation technique is called "cogeneration".

Put another way, power plants (coal, natural gas, nuclear) produce electricity and heat. The heat is usually just exhausted into the atmosphere. But if there is some process that requires heat to work -- petroleum distillation for example -- it makes sense to take that "waste" heat and put it to use. This way you get more out of your fuel, you can usually increase your power plant efficiency (this is important since they typically have an efficiency of about 30% or less).

The FDA is bought and paid for by the producers of the products it is supposed to regulate, namely the pharmaceutical and plastics industries. The fact that FDA endorses food grade plastics as safe means absolutely nothing to me.

An acquantance uses ice cream containers for reheating large amounts of food - some times a gallon at a time. He is not convinced there is any harm in this. I can't believe there isn't. My ``gooleing' efforts brought me here - is there documentation someplace I can show this fellow?
Thank you

Seems pyrex manufacturers are missing opportunity to make spoons etc. that can be left in larger containers of materials while being microwaved.

Obviously, using plastic or metal stirrers is awkward and time consuming.

Stirring, using pyrex (that remains in the food) would be very simply done!

You can use a 44 qt cooler to store your wheat, I believe the cooler material must be FDA listed.

Another option is to find a local supplier of bulk goods such as your local cooperative food store. . They often receive products in 5 gallon, food grade buckets. It is what I use to store flour.

[color=violet:8a0b9f3b86]Pyrex doesnt make spoons? OUTRAGEOUS!!! thats so gooleing!
im going to throw metal bird seed at Pyrex for that![/color:8a0b9f3b86]