Cooking For Engineers

[Guest]

Minor correction with apologies to my beloved wife...she passed May 10, 2005, not on May 31 (our anniversary date). We didn't quite make it to being married for two years.

Flourine can a bad boy. ...google this:
pfc insecticide fluorine dupont
... you'll see what I mean....

you'll feel like Googling the word insecticide made you come full circle to discussing pots & pans non-stick coatings !

And you did...they're related.

[FOOD_AND_DRUG]

Thanks to all for your comments about Ameriware.

Before finding this thread, but after purchasing 4 Chicken Fryers at Costco, I did a little research about Vollrath. After listening to the huckster at the "event" at my local Costco store, that Monday I Googled Vollrath and called their headquarters in Wisconsin.

A representative answered my questions and assured me that Vollrath is the manufacturer of the pans, and that the pans I saw at Costco or may see at a home show are Vollrath's line for the consumer trade. The rep stated that if I had a problem with the pan, I can either return it to Coscto or Vollrath.

Not knowing how to divide up a set among 4 people, I decided to purchase 4 Chicken Fryers that would double as fry pans and also offer the same versatility as the casserole pan (it's the same pan, except the chicken fryer has a handle) and the fryer comes with a lid, unlike the individiual fry pans sold at the Costco event, the lids are extra cost.

So, for $399.96, plus tax, I was able to purchase 4 Chicken Fryers and give each person one, vs. having to decide who receives which piece from a set.

I'm not familiar with all the issues surrounding Teflon and am sorry for the gentelman's loss of his wife. I truly did not know that the pans are of cancer causing materials.

I purchased the pans because I am tired of members of my family using such high heat under the pans that small fires have broken out and they ruin the pans! Hopefully, the Chicken Fryers will solve that problem, even if they never make chicken in them.

What has impressed me most about the pan is the lack of moisture that is required to cook in the pan (oil, water, etc.) and the only clean up is warm soap and water. The instructions advise to use Bon Ami to restore the outside luster of the pan.

Again, thanks to all for your comments.

P.S. As a side note, when I went back to my local Costco, the event was over, but they made an appearance the week before Christmas, the timing was perfect.

FOOD_AND_DRUG
Canyon Lake, CA

[Kat]

I bought an Ameriware chicken fryer at Costco just 3 days ago after tossing my cheap Teflon fryer out. I was taken by the demonstration and found it tempting to buy the set. But I thought I'd give the fryer a shot first. All the posted info is very interesting in light of the media's Teflon denouncements. But I will not be buying any more Ameriware for a different reason. The long and heavy handle causes the pan to tip on the burner of my 10 year old Thermador gas cooktop. So consider design when purchasing cookware, too.

[analytic shopper]

Thank you Michael Lee for the informative research on Eclipse and Ameriware.

I independently stumbled across the Eclipse triple coating when I was trying to find the perfect nonstick cookware.
JCPenney has a line of cooks hard anodized Eclipse cookware as well, very inenxpensive and on sale now half price, $15-25 for skillets. Might be worth a try!
http://www.jcpenney.com/products/Cg11020.jsp

Another line of Eclipse is available in Canada.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/
The description of Artisan 7pc Cookset has 7mm thermal bottoms, silicon nonstick exterior and seems well made.

I also witnessed the Costco demo, and found the fry pans to be very easy to tip. The handle weight causes an imbalance. The thickness of the pans did not seem adequate to me. Just some information for those who might consider purchase.

I also found a very informative Australian site which rated nonstick pans.
http://www.choice.com.au/viewarticleasonepage.aspx?id=104488&catId=100285&tid=100008&p=1
While I was unable to find many of the brands listed there for availability in US, it provided excellent factual comparisons of construction, wear resistance, evenness of cooking and many other facts.

Based on their findings, I decided to further investigate Scanpan and Swiss Diamond(500F oven safe) product lines, both of which are available on Amazon.

From user feedback it seems that either line is preferred to Analon, Calphalon, and many other high priced brands, but very few have left feedback for the Swiss Diamond line.

I have used nonstick skillets since the early 70's when I first acquired a T-fal skillet. It is actually still useable! The coating was very different back then, but Tefal made a good product.
I had a more recent set from ChefMate which were quite good (very thick aluminum) until my idiot ex used metal tools in them.

So I would really like to know if anyone has had the chance to compare performance of Scanpan vs. Swiss Diamond, as they seem to be viable options. I think a thick base is essential for stability and performance.

The marketing for Swiss Diamond states that it browns and sears well, which is not generally the case with conventional nonstick. Is the hype worth the price? It would seem they also use some variant on PTFE although the information is not readily available. Silverstone is another brand name useage like Teflon.

Does anyone have any feedback on Maillard (browning) performance for nonstick pans?

Thanks

[Ty]

We purchased the Ameriware cookware from Costco in 2003. At the time, I only used Caphalon un-coated (the older stuff). My wife never learned how to cook with it, so we decided to go with something coated, but wanted Caphalon-like quality.

During the demonstration, I asked a number of questions. Ultimately, we decided to get the $399.00 deal. However, some of the questions we asked focused on cleaning. The sales rep showed us the "bread-bag" demo (where the bread bag was set up against the pan to scorch, then simply wiped away). He also mentioned that because of the "Ceramic NON-TEFLON" coating, deep cleaning the pans was as simple as taking off the silicone heat guards, throwing them into the oven, and setting it to CLEAN mode.

Well after three years of use, we had built up enough scorched sides (and rims, which are not coated) to warrant the deep cleaning. We threw in our chicken fryer, and two largest skillets. Mid-point through the cleaning the smell was so bad that we nearly left the house. After completion, we were shocked to see that the pans were baked down to the aluminum, and all coatings were in ashes (Ceramic indeed!). To make matters worse, we found that the oven was impregnated with a chalky white coating unlike anything we had seen from previous oven-cleans.

In summary, we are out our best pans due to this sales rep's lie. I am considering returning the whole set to get a Costco refund, but embarrassed that I took for face value what the rep said. Most likely, I will ebay the lids and throw the ruined pans away.

I must mention that the non-stick performance of the pans has degraded over three years (for the highly used ones). While it is still good, I cannot slide a fried egg on to a plate without some coaxing and jarring. We definitely don’t make grilled cheese sandwiches by frying the cheese on the pan as they showed in the demo (leaves residue). That said, the construction and weight of the equipment as compared with the Caphalon is stellar. The non-stick surfaces holds up moderately better than others we have tried. After reading this thread, I may opt to order replacement pieces from the parent company; VollRath. If prices are comparable with the local Cash-and-carry restaurant supply store, then I see no reason to purchase from Ameriware.

...now where is that dang Costco Receipt?

/Ty

[ctc]

Thank you, TY, for your comment.

Yesterday, at Costco, I saw an Ameriware saleman doing his sales pitch. He told me there is no coating on the cookware. He also said the cookware is made of titanium ceramic "alloy". I asked him how high a temperature can the cookware take. He told me since there is no coating the cookware can go as high as 1600 degree at which temperature the metal melts. No organic material can resist such a high temperature. Only inorganics can. Since the sign said "titanium ceramic", I though this cookware had an inorganic coating.

Your tragic experience proves that the Ameriware does indeed has an organic coating, most likely some sort of perfluoropolymer, which has low surface tension, thus, non-sticking property. CTC

[GaryProtein]

[Ron Burris]

I have over a dozen brands of cookware, with 1/3 being non-stick (Bourget, Le Cruset, Henckels, Berndes, Swiss Diamond, Analon, Scan Pan, Premier). The Swisss Diamond is definitely the sturdiest, and has the best non-stick qualities over time - I have 3 pans - I always use wood or plastic utensils. I'm very careful to only use low-medium heat to cook stews/soups etc. For high heat cooking, its definitely bad to use anything with Teflon or its PTE cousins. Rather than plain stainless steel or aluminum, I have been using Cybernox cookware by Sitram (A respected French company). It is a real shiny metal alloy that can go to 1800 degrees, lining and fused to a stainless steel body, with a 5mm or 6mm thick base. It is NOT non-stick, more 'stick resistant', but whatever sticks and burns cleans up easily - much more so than plain stainless steel. Usually, just soaking for a while lets burnt on gunk come up easily with a sponge. If its really burnt in, a touch of Bar Keepers Friend, and the pan is as shiny and reflective as a mirror! Cybernox is the only brand I use for skillets and saute pans. Having worked in a restaurant for 9 years, I've seen more than my share of burnt & crusty skillets - nothing else has come as clean so easily. Only negative to Cybernox is price. (This has not been a paid advertisement!)

[Guest]

I purchased a set of these pots and pans almost 2 years ago. I've been pretty happy with them, but the pans have begun to stick. I don't any pan will ever stay non-stick. I liked the idea of buying them because I was told they did not have aluminum in them, which I am trying to avoid becuase of aluminum's potentail hastening of Altzeimers. Now, I find out they may not have told me the truth, which does not make me happy. I went ot Costco today and the Ameriware people were there and I got a phone number to call, but instead I went to customer service and they were able to find my purchase in their computer records and even print out a receipt for me (My wife doesn't keep any kind of receipt that long). Now I can bring back the entire set and get a full refund. As was stated earlier, Costco really stands behind their products. So this week that's what I'm going to do. I haven't decided if I will re-purchase a new set I think I will research it a little more, but I would like to buy them from Costco because of their return policy.

[real person/real world]

Just an observation... it seems that the majority of people who have actually bought and used this product really like it and are very satisfied. It would come as no surprise to find that the rest of the comments come from people who are constantly looking at the glass half empty, while it is good to research a product or a service provider - some of the folks here have gone above (or should I say below) and beyond what is necessary. A negative picture can be painted about anyone or anything - just check out a court room!
and yes I have this cookware and love it, and in response to the person who was concerned about cooking their stir fry at high heat...
the pans don't need anything higher than medium heat
they heat well and even, I was amazed how quickly water came to a boil.

[redrose]

I just bought this set from Costco coz I wanted a good set. I was bidding on Amway on ebay but never succeed.
Just wondering if I should keep this Ameriware set. After read after these NON-stick things, I am very worried. I like to cook on non-stick but don't want to get un-healthy things for my kids.

Another question, how can people return things to Costco after using for 2 years? I thought you may only return things used in 90 days.

Anyway, very confused now.

[GaryProtein]

[redrose]

I have read this thread from 1st page to the last again and still confused if I should keep this Ameriware set or not. I like non-stick very much. I use a non-stick wok every day. But I am worried with this Teflon thing too. Maybe I should just do as a lady stated earlier that we should use stainless steel as much as possible. So where may I get a good priced stailess steel set? I wonder why Costco doesn't have one.

[GaryProtein]

My brother has a set of Ameriware from Costco and he likes it very much. Don't abuse/burn them, and you should be free of any health risks. I, personally like the Swiss Diamond.

[Mari]

It's had a question about the safety of my new Ameriware and really hit the jackpot with this site! Your research is awesome and the comments are much appreciated. Regarding the warranty- if the non-stick isn't warrantied, what's the point? I purchased the pan in large part for its nonstick quality!