Cooking For Engineers

[GC]

Found this article by mistake and now love the website! I'm an engineer and this is exactly the way I like information delivered.

That being said, is there any chance you will do an update to this article? I tried to find some of the japanese knives on this test and apparently most are discontinued or at least not sold anymore form the websites suggested.

[Dilbert]

Amazon vendors come and go . . .

MAC knives are a available from several sources.
try www.macknife.com for starters.
an internet search on brand + model will give you all the info you need.

the Amazon links for Globals still works - do some surfing for best pricing.

the Forschner / Victorinox line is basically the folks of "Swiss Army knives" - www.chefknivestogo.com is one source; there's many others.

[DetailsBaby]

I'm a chemical engineer embarking on a second career (passion) - now in Chef School. Somehow my searches frequently lead me to cookingforengineers... I need to buy some knives and would love to see a current study/review before I make the leap. Is anything in the works? I would love to do...but not qualified on the knife handling skills yet. But maybe could interest our Cooking School? Any interest???

[Dilbert]

Details -

frankly, as you have limited experience, any - new or old - detailed "analysis / comparison" is likely to be meaningless. and the reasons are quite simple:

first, the knife has to fit and feel comfortable in your hand. this is largely a handle shape/size question as applied to your personal attachments - not every human has the same hand.

every company makes them different - and many companies make different handle styles - and then there's the "custom" world. you need to go forth and try some.
this is the #1 "issue" with being comfortable - or in Asian terms "being one" with your knife.

alternately, cut off your hand, equip it with "good / bad" sensors, and send it in for testing.

next - blade geometry. various makers - and the lines are not clearly drawn by Asian / European names - shape the blades differently. rounder tip, flatter overall, "belly" etc. etc. etc. - this affects how "chopping / slicing / dicing " works for you; your height, forearm length, torso ratios, etc.

with no experience, no description of how a $5000 custom chef knife cuts carrots vs a $20 supermarket chef knife cuts carrots is going to give you any real information.

bottom line: you have to start somewhere. your typical tasks and use will then determine which knife/shape/size/type may work better / worse. extreme example: a sushi chef has different needs than the average home cook hacker....

there are differences Asian vs European in the shapes. Asian knives tend to be "flatter" over their entire length. this may or may not suit you.

other widely touted / from-the-roof-top news is steel, hardness, edge holding ability, etc.
the theory that one can buy a high end super hard super thin Japanese knife which holds its edge so well it never needs sharpening . . . not true. _any_ knife you use regularly will eventually need sharpening. softer steels are easier to home sharpen. hard steels more difficult - send out a hard steel high end knife to a clown pro-sharpener - you've got junk; non-performing expensive junk.

so the next decision: do you want to learn to sharpen / maintain your own knives?
if you choose not to maintain your own knives, don't buy any knife that costs more than $50.

>>in Chef school
pssst: really expensive high end knives are not present in the average food service kitchens. they uhmmm, errr, disappear. if you paid for that one, you're out.

so before you go investing $1-$3k in knives based on some internet "expert" review - sally forth down to your local supermarket / household store and buy a couple $20-30 knives of different styles/shapes/handles - take them home, chop up yourself a storm, see what works for you.

[Jim Cooley]

Dilbert, fusk that carp, go to a thrift store and find old rusty knives. They will be the ones made of carbon steel and can take an edge easey-peasey.

Problem is that you have to keep them that way....

[Dilbert]

>>thrift store knives

at the basic level, no issues with that idea!

the caveat is some of the flea market specials are seriously outdated in their form - a 14 inch blade with a two inch tip radius . . .
they are not representative of what can get 'currently' in the market place.

I see "old butcher knife" advertised / pictured, whatever - it is not anything remotely resembling any knife geometry on the current market - so that's a bit of a toss up.

>>carbon
rusty knives I suppose have their fans. but just not me among them.

[Thestuntdummy]

I have a Cutco trimmer. It is a good knife. We thought it was amazing compared to our other knives (cuisinart set), and it was. We began to research knife a new knife purchase and discovered the world of German and Japanese knives. We tested some at Sur La Table. We tried some at a cutlery shop. We had no idea that our knives were so awful!

Our cutco knife now doesn't seem that great. If you notice there is a common thread among the CUTCO fans contributing to this discussion. [/i] CUTCO knives or rarely directly compared to other quality knives. The comments are based solely in a CUTCO experience removed from any comparisons. CUTCO's are wonderful for the average home cook then they should be priced accordingly. For the price of a cutco there are so many options of fine knives.

Now that we have experienced true cutlery performance, our CUTCO knife is no longer so special. I am not a professional chef, but I do love to grill and cook. You do not need to be a professional or a rocket scientist or even an engineer to use common sense about the CUTCO product.

Cutco fans, have you ever wondered why professional chefs, restaurant workers, or cooks never buy cutco?

Or if they are so amazing -why cutco has never chosen the retail path? Because they would never make a profit, and can only succeed with their overpriced product by preying on the naive, the uninitiated, and the uninformed. We were there once, and are thankful we only bought one knife, and not wasted $1000 on a set!

BTW, 440a steel is a common cheap steel. Quit trying to pass it off as the best.[/quote]

[Knife collector]

This review contains an odd mix of Japanese gyuto and German chefs knives. The Gyuto is really a thick slicer. It's best use is for a push or pull cut due to long flat blade. Because it has a significant belly, it's easy to use your left knuckle to guide the cut whereas a true slicer is so thin that your left knuckle cannot control the blade. For more of a chopping motion, the Santoku with the more significant belly is the way to go. A chefs knife is designed for more of a rocking motion. Of course you can use any cutting motion with any knife but may use it in way it was not optimized for. It would have been better to rate gyutos and chefs knives separately.

By the way, your recommendation of the Mac knife is problematic. It tries to be both a gyuto and chefs knife at the same time. To do this, the spline of the blade has bend to it, to give a little more roundness to blade like a chefs knife while trying to maintain a thinner belly like a gyuto. Unfortunately, the slicing motion feels incomplete due to the bend and it doesn't rock well because the blade needs more sweep. While I do agree that this knife is very sharp, I do not use this knife much because of the spine and I really would not recommend it also because the handle length is short. I prefer a traditional gyuto or a chefs knife.

[Rainey]

What is the difference between the Mac MTH 80 and the MAC TH 80? I want o make sure I don't end up with the wrong knife.

[Dilbert]

the macknife.com site is a major pita to use - it lacks a search function so it's basically paging through the whole site to find something specific.


http://www.macknife.com/kitchen/products-by-series/chef-series/44-th-80-chef-series-8q-chefs-knife-with-dimples.html

Product: TH-80 - Chef Series 8" Chef's Knife with dimples

This 8" chef's knife is similar to our best-selling MTH-80 from the Professional series but without the bolster and without the sub-zero tempered steel. The gradual taper from heel to tip is in the style of the Gyuto (Japanese chef's knife). It can be used for slicing most fruits, vegetables, and proteins on the cutting board.

[Jim Cooley]

Just to keep the forum open again, I'll reiterate my love of rusty old carbon steel knives.

You put a good edge on them, and then steel them before very use. No troubles, no worries, and they cut like a charm.

Yeah, they get stained and aged even with the best of care.
Which in my case means washing and drying after every single damned use. But that's not so hard once you get the hang of it.

But don't we all develop a bit of tarnish over the years?

Jim

[LarryAt27n]

In December of 2013, I decided I had enough with the constant maintenance required to keep sharp edges on our many knives. So I culled out about nine knives, which my wife dropped off at the Salvation Army store, and acquired five new ones after doing much research here and elsewhere on line.

We're down to
- a Messermeister Santoku chef's knife (about 7")
- an older Chicago slicer
- three MAC professional blades: utility, parer, and vegetable cleaver
- a Mighty MAC 8-1/2" chef's knife (a gift)
- a small Shun meat cleaver found on sale $40 under Amazon
- a scary Cutco butcher knife
- a long Double-D Cutco slicer that sharpens up perfectly with a Chef's Choice double-wheel device. This is perfect for roasts and crusty bread.
- a short Cutco utility knife, Double-D, when all else fails.

plus a few odds and ends, of course, such as a sharp spreading knife. The steak knives (including Cutco and Sabatier) are all serrated-type models because we serve steaks and chops on China plates -- bad news for smooth blades.

I am perfectly satisfied with this diverse collection. I've been cooking about 50 years now, and do not intend to buy another kitchen knife, ever. Related note: I bought a pair of cut-resistant gloves following the arrival of the Asian knives -- highly recommended!

Unrelated note: a few years ago, we did the same with cookware, dumping several brands -- including All-Clad -- in favor of Swiss Diamond. We never looked back.

[coco2]

I can't believe Cutco got such horrid reviews. I love Cutco! Mostly because they fit in my hand perfectly. I have had them 20 years, and they are still sharp! I don't have the one they tested with, but I have 3 different paring knives, a carving knife, and a couple of others I can't remember the names. They are the BEST paring knives I have ever had, and I have had a lot of different paring knives. Once again, it is sharp and it fits in my hand ( I can't use a knife that isn't comfortable in my hand!) They are too expensive, I agree, but they are the ones I look for when I am working in the kitchen.

[elaine]

first off, you do not list what kind of cutco knife you used. there are all kinds of knives for specific jobs. if you use the correct knife you would have been able to cut carrots cleanly, thinner or thick and straight. if you use the double dd it will angle the cut because a straight edge is used for chopping. double dd is used for cutting/slicing. carrots are chopped. so you should have used the petite chef. I can't believe any knife would crush a scallop. then you have not rated warranties. nobody replaces knives like cutco. If you damage a knife most of the time it is replaced for free. unless you tried to use in for auto repairs! also if they do need sharpening and they will eventually, cutco will sharpen it to like new edges. service calls are also made to your home at your request. what company other than cutco will come to your home and diagnose a problem. we will also sell you a block so you can build your sets as you want. Every company has their selling features. I do believe cutco knives are the sharpest around and they will still be sharp 50 years later. Ask cutco owners who have inherited their knives and other accessories. I wish I had these years ago.

[sharpie]

Before giving too much credence to the "regular folks" promoting cutco knives, search the web for this article: The Cult of Cutco: How Vector Marketing Mass-Hires Students into Dubious Contract Labor
Like the many of the shill/fake Amazon 5-star reviewers, there is a profit motive driving much if not all of this talk about these mediocre and overpriced knives. There are (as these comparisons show) many, many better knives available for a lot less money. Please, no more cutco promotion comments!