Cooking For Engineers

district2k5 · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Washington, DC

I've been browsing various "premium" home appliance websites, and I noticed that so far, all of them have neglected to mention how the max temp for their ovens. I think this is a fairly crucial detail. My Kitchen Aid oven tops out at 500 F (although it has a convection feature, too). I want to make pizzas and broil steaks at a much higher temp, without resorting to breaking the locking mechanism to make use of the cleaning cycle. Any info? Thanks!

SirShazar · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 89

All home ovens that I know of only go up to 500'f, my guess is that it's a mandatory safety feature. It probably correlates to the amount of insulation most ovens have. Even at 500 degrees, you can touch the outside of most home ovens, but given enough time at 700 degrees, you could cause some serious damage to yourself or your house.

Most gas and charcoal grills with a lid can reach temperatures higher than 700, especially the insulated ceramic ones (like the Big Green Egg).

district2k5 · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Washington, DC

I'm starting to think it's some sort of standard, as well, but as others online have correctly pointed out, the oven is not exceedingly dangerous on the outside when it's on the self-cleaning cycle.

The high temps just probably exceed normal cooking applications, and so many people only use their ovens to heat up commercially prepared food anyway, so 500 is more than enough for their (lame) purposes. Also, the energy usage would be through the roof.

Still...what about those of us willing to pay more for the higher temps???

Dilbert · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: central PA

>>the oven is not exceedingly dangerous on the outside

when you open a hole in a multi-thousand degree furnace, the rug rat's face gets toasted.

same rationale for the door lock when self-cleaning.

district2k5 · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Washington, DC

I've never been injured by an oven on a cleaning cycle, nor does the temp in the self-cleaning cycle usually exceed 900 F (so, "multi thousand" is a bit of an exaggeration).

I don't have kids in my house...if I want to buy a hotter oven, why can't I?

district2k5 · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Washington, DC

Sigh...I suppose the high risk of cooked consumers makes the ultra-hot oven an unappealing choice for home appliance manufacturers. Still, I do seem to recall reading about Viking ovens boasting a 1500 F broiling feature. Thoughts, anyone?

Also, has anyone personally tried a backyard brick oven? I see that Williams-Sonoma sells the Beehive Brick Oven for $2000. Expensive, yes, but so is $6000+ for a Viking oven.

Dilbert · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: central PA

I dug around a bit, uncovered a rather dated citation on the cspc site where the cspc declined to develop federal standards for oven as they considered the voluntary standards set by aham and aga to be adequate.

the aham standard can be purchased:
http://webstore.ansi.org/FindStandards.aspx?Action=displaydept&DeptID=3115&Acro=AHAM&DpName=AHAM:%20Association%20of%20Home%20Appliance%20Manufacturers&source=google&adgroup=AHAM&keyword=aham&gclid=CIPui8fauJcCFQNfFQodsw5aRA

there are multiple recalls on the cspc site where ovens could get too hot thence expelling gases which could burn people or damage cabinetry.

apparently there is some temperature in the 500'F neighborhood where getting fried is a reality. but I did not find a publicly available / free reference.

a google on commercial ovens show most non-special purpose ovens thermostatically controlled to a max of 550'F.

also be aware you may not be able to simply plug&play a commercial oven / range into the typical residential kitchen. they often have clearance requirements and non-combustible surrounds needs.

an engineer from the Eagle Group posted a while back - regrets as a guest so not sure if there's any contact info
see: http://www.cookingforengineers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13108&highlight=real+engineer#13108

district2k5 · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Washington, DC

Well, the super hot home oven dream is just that. If I actually had a yard, I would be saving up for the Beehive from Williams-Sonoma.

What about Viking's 1500 F broiling claim?

Dilbert · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: central PA

>>What about Viking's 1500 F broiling claim?

dunno. went to the site and poked around a bit - infrared, 10 pass (!?!)
didn't trip over the 1500'F mark. if you've got an electric, point a ir thermometer at the red hot element. mebets you've got most of 1500 already.

IndyRob · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 77

We have a Kenmore Elite from Sears that goes to 550. It was rather pricey at about $1,800 several years ago. It's also a 'dual fuel' range; Gas burners with an electric oven.

Another cool feature is a digital display that shows the progress of preheating (although, stupidly, the temperature displayed will never go down even if you open the oven door and leave it there).

I love it except for one thing: It has a membrane keypad which has a tendency to get stuck over time. After we paid for a professional repair the first time, I learned that you can take off the front panel and abuse the membrane into working again (which it what the 'pro' did).

IndyRob · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 77

I'd like to add that at 550 degrees, I can make great pizzas with the right pans. Pizza on a stone would be right on too, except that I suffer from 'slide it onto the stone' performance anxiety.

In terms of going higher in the temp department, I've done some experiments on charcoal and gas grills.

A pizza stone on the charcoal grill produced a promising, yet burnt result. Managing the top and bottom temps proved extremely difficult. The stone cracked before the correct technique could be dialed in.

For steak, a much more successful test was the cast iron pan on gas grill approach. Fairly traditional in concept: Start the gas grill on the highest setting and put a cast iron pan on it (say goodbye to the careful seasoning you've been cultivating). I acheived a surface temp of about 765 degrees. Sear a seasoned filet for about one minute on each side and then transfer to a 425 oven for 5-7 min. I think it's like the best steak houses.

1800 degrees seems a bit extreme to me. Ruth's Chris advertises broiler temps of 1100 for their steaks. But if someone wants to post a video on youtube of dipping a filet into molten aluminum, then I want to be the first to see it (I think, if it doesn't involve grevious injury).

cbread · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 7

Pizza and bread work fine in my recent vintage Bosch electric wall oven. It gets to somewhere in the vicinity of 550 F. I use the biggest pizza stone I could find.

C

tryditmyself · Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 7 Location: Orange County, CA

Do you mind sharing why you want an oven that will exceed 500? Perhaps we can rescue you with another cooking method.

tryditmyself · Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 7 Location: Orange County, CA

Scratch my previous reply. First rule of engagement, read all posts before typing. I ditto the cast iron skillet on the BBQ if you want a serious sear on a steak. If you don't have a BBQ or weather prohibits using year round, since you're planning to buy a new oven (I assume range too) most all newer stoves have power burners. Put a iron skillet on one of those babies and I'm here to tell ya, you can duplicate the performance of a BBQ. As for Pizza's, the Pizza stone idea is the best I've heard for the home oven. But if you want commercial quality and have a patio to call your own, installing a brick oven would rock it.

Islander · Guest

On the same topic another thing to look for (which I realized after I bought my stove) is how low they can go. Mine only goes 170 my old oven could go 120 dosnt sound like much but we all know 50 degees is alot.