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Professional Knives
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SgtNickFury



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have yet to purchase from him because he's the worst kind of ebay seller....i.e. someone who actually knows what his stuff is worth (grin) (He's probably a great seller)

....I may cave though he finds the best stuff, and a few items I've seen I know I won't find anywhere else. I been lurking watching his auctions for awhile....I just am big into finding the bargains and for that you're better checking out fleamarkets, estate sales and garage sales.
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SirSpice



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SgtNickFury wrote:
For the semi frozen meats, I'd also consider a nice Granton Scimitar style knife .....I suppsoe it depends on the size of cuts you're working with I'm imagining full boston butts....you may mean like precut frozen steaks.......if you're actually doing butcher work, look for a good scimitar.


It's really just been a couple of instances where I wished I had a longer knife with a straight edge that can cut through in one stoke...

-I cut alot of half-thawed flank steak for stirfrys, and I want to be able to make a single cut to go through the meat (It usually takes me a stroke forward than pull backward unless I press down hard)
-Cutting a roast into thin slices, the 3-4 strokes it took made some of some of the slices a bit uneven
-Cutting hard hungarian salami
-Cutting through a watermelon thats wider than my 8" knife
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SgtNickFury



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirSpice wrote:
SgtNickFury wrote:
For the semi frozen meats, I'd also consider a nice Granton Scimitar style knife .....I suppsoe it depends on the size of cuts you're working with I'm imagining full boston butts....you may mean like precut frozen steaks.......if you're actually doing butcher work, look for a good scimitar.


It's really just been a couple of instances where I wished I had a longer knife with a straight edge that can cut through in one stoke...

-I cut alot of half-thawed flank steak for stirfrys, and I want to be able to make a single cut to go through the meat (It usually takes me a stroke forward than pull backward unless I press down hard)
-Cutting a roast into thin slices, the 3-4 strokes it took made some of some of the slices a bit uneven
-Cutting hard hungarian salami
-Cutting through a watermelon thats wider than my 8" knife


For your uses I think you'd be best sevred by a good basic long serrated blade, it doesn't need to be too fancy for this.....Serrated blades are a pain to sharpen so I usually do nto want them to be too costly, because it's really easier to just replace them every few years......(i'm lazy on this point I HATE sharpening serrated blades) It can be done but it is a pain, and you'll need some special files made for that......and don't get me wrong if I have a nice serrated edge as I do for some pocket, and hunting knives, I will take the time and sharpen them......but in general in teh kitchen I just don't think it's worth it, and a cheapo serated infomercial knife like I showed above works suprisingly well.

If it' semi frozen and can be bent at all then just a really sharp long chef knife, or butcher knife will make a nice clean slize no problem. Also for steaks, I have my cleaver, I can always do a pretty nice slice on semi frozen with just a good old fashioned cave man chop, just make sure there are no bones in there to mess up the edge.

Frozen meat is not far from sawing wood, some teeth mean you can slice through it quickly......I could cut wood strips I use when woodworking with both one of my swords, or an axe, but for the sake of both those instruments I treasure it makes much more sense to use a hand saw. Same goes for frozen meat.

Don't rule out Electric carving knives either, they're very useful, especially when there is bone.
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SgtNickFury wrote:
I have yet to purchase from him because he's the worst kind of ebay seller....i.e. someone who actually knows what his stuff is worth (grin) (He's probably a great seller)

....I may cave though he finds the best stuff, and a few items I've seen I know I won't find anywhere else. I been lurking watching his auctions for awhile....I just am big into finding the bargains and for that you're better checking out fleamarkets, estate sales and garage sales.


I've always had great luck with Ralph and love chatting with him via email. We've been exchanging cooking ideas and the love of meat since probably 1999 or so. His stories of traveling through Europe finding knives an junk were always welcome. He was the one that talked me in to using my 13" cooks knives for everything, no matter what. And he was, slowly but surely my control has gotten a little keener over time. Kinda funny to watch items on my cutting block flying off from time to time too.

Biggles
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SirSpice



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm planning on buying myself a new knife for my birthday, and have been browsing around looking for good Japanese knives. Which of the following do would you recommend most?

Kiyosuna Josaku Gyuto



Mac MTH80



Kikuichi Elite Carbon Steel Gyuto



Or if you have some other recommendations.
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Howard



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HiromotoHighCarbonSteelSeries.html
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Vintage Sab
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow,
A lot of contentious back and forth here. Seems like the original question had to do with a slicing knife, but I'm not sure after reading most of that head-swirling tete a tete on Rockwell scales, etc. At the risk of generating a two page screed on metalurgy from some posters, I'd recommend keeping an eye out, as someone mentioned, for old carbon steel knives. My favorites are my old Sabatiers, but I have a very nice old Wester Bros chef's knife made from carbon steel that is great to use. A word on nomencalture. Several posters use the term "high carbon steel", for what might be more correctly termed "carbon steel". I was thinking this might confuse some on this site who might not know any better, as the term high carbon steel is commonly used these days in association with stainless. Sure, carbon steel blades require more care, but I hardly seem to notice anymore. A quick rinse with hot water and a wipe on the cloth hanging at my apron, and I'm back in business. The old carbon steel Sabatiers are scarce, but a joy to use and sharpen.
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SirSpice



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up getting a 12" Tojiro DP. It's huge, but it's really fun to use and the price is a bargain.
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SgtNickFury



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirSpice wrote:
I ended up getting a 12" Tojiro DP. It's huge, but it's really fun to use and the price is a bargain.


I would very much like to hear about your sharpening experiences with this knife......when I think about lamanating steels I usually think about doing it for shock absorption, and sharpness......putting a layer of stainless on a non stainless center for a kitchen knife is a very novel idea, and those prices look nice.......My only concern would be the stainless portion how close to the edge does it get, did it come with care directions? I.e. would it interfere with sharpening the blade. Just curious.....about function and upkeep. I may end up getting the santoku just to see for myself.
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SirShazar



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had it for a while now and I think I can give a closer perspective. Let me start by saying this knife is huge. I doubt if it can fit in any knifeblock so storing it can be a hassle. I keep it in the plastic cover it came with and I put it in my knife bag. It also means that it doesn't get as much of a workout like my other knives.

That said, there a lot tasks this knife works especially well for:
-slicing soft bread, it can cut a slice of bread with one stroke and with zero crumbs
-slicing fish and meat (raw or cooked), not having to go back and fourth makes the cuts much more accurate
-peeling and cutting any kind of large fruit or vegetable with a hard exterior

Now to answer your questions. In this case I think the laminating was mostly a way of attaching a high quality steel edge to a mediocre steel blade, only the 1/4 inch right behind the blade is the Swedish Steel. You can see where the Swedish Steel edge meets the regular stainless steel (theres a gray line where they meet), which actually looks really nice. I doubt that I'll ever sharpen past the good steel because by that time the knife would be too thick. On the description they say that it's a carbon steel laminated it stainless, but the edge has never discolored or rusted so I think it has some chromium in it too. It comes with the same care directions as any other Japanese knife (don't put in dishwasher, don't cut on marble, don't crack coconuts with it, etc...). My only complaint would be that the handle is a little big (which in some ways is important for such a big knife, but all their knives have similar handles)

As for how sharp it is, it has a great factory edge, and it's a razor if you know how to sharpen it. When I started sharpening I had bad form so I scratched the sides of it pretty bad, so I went ahead and mirror polished the whole blade (it took hours, I can see my reflection in it, but it's not perfect).

Overall, I think that for <$100 it can't be beat, but JCK stopped selling them (Tojiro cut them off for selling it cheap) and it's hard to find as good of a bargain as JCK's.
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vintage Sab wrote:
The old carbon steel Sabatiers are scarce, but a joy to use and sharpen.


The old carbon steel Sabs are in the here and now. eBay search Sabatier Nogent and see for yourself.

Buzz
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Vintage Sab wrote:
The old carbon steel Sabatiers are scarce, but a joy to use and sharpen.


The old carbon steel Sabs are in the here and now. eBay search Sabatier Nogent and see for yourself.

Buzz


Yeah and no. That's recycled (weak) steel, it bends and snaps quite easily. I bought a 10 or 12 inch rig a few years ago. It was poorly made and bent the last few inches of the tip when smooshing garlic. The fit and finish of the finished product really shouldn't be compared to its earlier counterpart. At all.

Biggles
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Howard



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK the Tojiro laminated blades are actually laminated, meaning that the core steel extends most/all the way to the spine.
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SirShazar



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard wrote:
AFAIK the Tojiro laminated blades are actually laminated, meaning that the core steel extends most/all the way to the spine.


After looking at a video about knife production, and examining the choil on mine, I really do believe that it isn't laminated all the way. But again, it makes no difference because you will never get to the point of reaching stainless.
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrBiggles wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Vintage Sab wrote:
The old carbon steel Sabatiers are scarce, but a joy to use and sharpen.


The old carbon steel Sabs are in the here and now. eBay search Sabatier Nogent and see for yourself.

Buzz


Yeah and no. That's recycled (weak) steel, it bends and snaps quite easily. I bought a 10 or 12 inch rig a few years ago. It was poorly made and bent the last few inches of the tip when smooshing garlic. The fit and finish of the finished product really shouldn't be compared to its earlier counterpart. At all.

Biggles


Biggles - These particular Sabs are made of virgin carbon steel forged prior to WWII. Like I said, search Satabier Nogent.

Anyway, if SirSpice is still aboard, check out Ray Rantanen's site: http://raysknives.netfirms.com/ The last you said I believe was a desire for a slicer. For (my guess) $100-$125 Ray will make you a 8" slicer in L6 carbon. That's the stuff band saw blades are made of and its outstanding quality is that it is extremely "tough". That is the ability to take a pounding and still maintain its edge. I own some and will swear by the steel. I can sharpen a steak knife to 10 degrees per side (razor blades are 7) and not worry when my dinner guests mash the edge into a ceramic plate. The edge will still be there, or, if they roll it, I can bring it right back with a SMOOTH steel. By smooth I mean just that. Never ever use one of the grooved steels if you want to maintain a serious edge. They will rip a great edge to mediocre shreds.

Buzz
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