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carbon steel knives
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csrullan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: carbon steel knives Reply with quote

I've seen some posts suggesting vintage carbon steel knives as an alternative to stainless steel. I thought it might be helpful to point out that carbon steel knives are still available new and at reasonable prices. See
http://www.ontarioknife.com/oldhickory.html
http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products/cleavers/index.html
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this:

http://thebestthings.com/knives/sabatiercarbon.htm

Buzz
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BchrisL



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Try this:

http://thebestthings.com/knives/sabatiercarbon.htm

Buzz


I bought a set of Sabatier Carbon Steel Knives back in the early 70's. I still have them and they are a prized member of my kitchen. They hold a keen edge and the handles have never aged. The tangs go all the way to the end of the handle. They do need to be kept away from long term wetness, as they will corrode. Mine are corroded slightly, as I abused them in my youth. They will be with me forever and will, most likely, be handed down to my heirs.

I can only say, buy a wooden stand or a magnetic wall strip to keep them, and make sure the tips are protected, as they will bend if they are gouged into somthing like a counter top. Keep them clean and wash off the acid when you are through chopping vegetables. They will last a lifetime.

Chris
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vchan



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Winnipeg, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you!!!


I have spent YEARS hunting for a good set of carbon steel cleavers. This just made my day.

Excuse me while I place an order...
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buzzard767



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vchan wrote:
Thank you!!!


I have spent YEARS hunting for a good set of carbon steel cleavers. This just made my day.

Excuse me while I place an order...


Years? Did you search using a bobsled? Most of us use google - takes about two seconds. LOL
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CookNewb
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the advantages of a carbon steel knife versus other types of steel?
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buzzard767



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CookNewb wrote:
What are the advantages of a carbon steel knife versus other types of steel?


Very generally, nearly all carbon blades sharpen more easily and take a better (sharper) edge than most stainless steels. There are several stainless steels that are fantastic but are seldom found on run of the mill knives. Carbon blades require loving care, needing to be washed and dried immediately after use to prevent rust, and they also develope patina (discolor) over time. There are also in between semi-stainless steels like D2 and SKD. It's a matter of taste. I have some of each but don't have a preference. My knives run from very soft SS to very hard SS and carbon. I like them all for different reasons.
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vchan



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Winnipeg, CA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, the first two years of searching was strictly local and whatever chinese groceries I could find on rare trips to other cities.

The online searches when I finally broke down and started them gave me tons of results... and not alot of information on them, combined with websites that made me leary of ordering anything through them

This one however has the info I want (weights included with dimensions) and good pictures (it DOES look like my Da's cleaver). Finally, the prices are very good, the shipping isn't ridiculous, AND they ship outside the continental US.
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SirShazar



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Word of caution vchan, these cleavers will most likely arrive at your door as dull as butterknives.

But don't threat, after sharpening they will become a lot nicer. If you need advice about sharpening feel free to ask, I have quite a wealth of information on the subject.
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ERdept



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 39
Location: LA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only like carbon steel, especially Takeda, and the other line of Japanese blacksmiths.

They do need care and feeding, as though they are alive and change over time.

They have held the best edges I've ever seen.

Many Japanese makers use Aogami Supersteel, Rockwell about 62.


Google "Japanese Chef's knives" and see what you get. I'll never go back to Henckles, Wusstoff, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vchan wrote:
well, the first two years of searching was strictly local and whatever chinese groceries I could find on rare trips to other cities.

The online searches when I finally broke down and started them gave me tons of results... and not alot of information on them, combined with websites that made me leary of ordering anything through them

This one however has the info I want (weights included with dimensions) and good pictures (it DOES look like my Da's cleaver). Finally, the prices are very good, the shipping isn't ridiculous, AND they ship outside the continental US.

The coolest Chinese cleavers are the CCK's and you really can't find an online source. Basically you find a little shop in Chinatown. There's one on Clement in SF.

Carbon Steel does not do well with acidic foods. Fruit,onions,peppers, are acidic and aside from cosmetic tarnish,they will rapidly spoil your fine edge by micro corrosion. Carbon knives can be your main Knives but I'd have a good Stainless for acidic food. No point getting a great edge then spoiling it cutting a couple of onions.
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Jim Cooley



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 324
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a Japanese "Sakai" chef's knife for (gasp) 16 years and love it. Only place I've ever found them was in Honolulu at Shirokiya at the Ala Moana mall.

Soko Hardware in San Fran has some other nice brands, though.

Good tip about acidic foods. I recently discovered carbon steel loses its edge if it rusts even the tiniest bit. Duh! So now I dry my knife even if I'll need it again in just a few minutes.
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msjayhawk



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Diamondhead, MS

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Great Info Reply with quote

This lists about all of the materials to make knives out of...


http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html#LM1
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safta



Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I found this forum searching for more info about Frank Richtig. I'm a knifemaker and am always very pleased to meet other people that enjoy quality tools. There is nothing wrong with carbon blades, they require care, but all knives do if you would like them to last, even stainless will rust and stain, its called stain"less" after all not stain proof. Knives should always be hand cleaned and put away dry in a way so as to protect the edge, never put them in a dishwasher. The link provided to a list of blade steels is nowhere near a "complete list" any steel with more than .6% carbon can be heat treated. For simple carbon steels in the 10xx family the last two numbers indicate the carbon content, for example 1095 is roughly .95% carbon with a little manganese for better hardenability since 1095 is a shallow hardening steel, and traces of phosphorous and sulfur. 1095 is an excellent choice for a smaller knife. The 521xx series the list mentions is a chromium bearing steel much better suited for large chopping blades, 1084 and 5160 would also be a great choice for large blades. The tool steels like A2,O1,D2, and L6 are all superb knife steels but also require a more exacting heat treat compared to simple carbon steels. The word stainless only implies that the steel has at least 12% chromium to resist corrosion there are many to choose from some are good for some blade types and some are good for others, the myths that stainless steels are not as good, hard to sharpen, don't hold edge, are mostly the fault of cheap knives made with inferior steel that isnt heat treated properly or some that aren't heat treated at all. The CPM stainless steels (Crucible Particle Metallurgy) are all excellent choices depending on the intended use. A properly made knife with good geometry and a proper heat treat will perform exactly as it should, there are steel choices in both categories that excel in their intended use, the choice between the two is exactly that, a choice, if you like carbon steel that produces a nice patina over time stick with carbon if you want a knife that stays shiny and is easy to clean stick with stainless. Sorry for the post being so long but as a knifemaker I hate seeing stainless get a bad rap because of cheap inferior KSO(knife shaped object) I like both carbon and stainless and the only advantage that either has over the other is stainless stains less. I would also like to note there are several custom knifemakers that make superb kitchen cutlery.
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dubie



Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking into a couple of less expensive Japanese carbon steel knives.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fujiwara2.html

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/misono4.html

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kielcagy24.html

Just wondering if you guys may know a certain brand better, or could give me some better history than that I have been finding online.

Another note, I am leaning more to the Kikuichi because i can get it from my local cutlery store.

Thanks very much.
Dubie
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