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Equipment & Gear: Common Materials of Cookware
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okapizoo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Demeyere cookware Reply with quote

I have just purchased a Demeyere granite-coated frying pan called Controlinduc ($240.00 for an 8") as I read on the internet that it can be used on induction, gas or electric but, on reading the cardboard cover that was wrapped around it, it reads as follows: "The Controlinduc function only works on an induction hob. We strongly advise against using this product on any other heat source, as the pan would heat as a normal pan but the Controlinduc function will not work, with the risk of overheating and burning the food in the pan". I wonder if you could give some explanation of whether or not I can use the pan on a regular electric stovetop?
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Demeyere cookware Reply with quote

okapizoo wrote:
I have just purchased a Demeyere granite-coated frying pan called Controlinduc ($240.00 for an 8") as I read on the internet that it can be used on induction, gas or electric but, on reading the cardboard cover that was wrapped around it, it reads as follows: "The Controlinduc function only works on an induction hob. We strongly advise against using this product on any other heat source, as the pan would heat as a normal pan but the Controlinduc function will not work, with the risk of overheating and burning the food in the pan". I wonder if you could give some explanation of whether or not I can use the pan on a regular electric stovetop?

You can definitely use these pans over electric or gas ranges. They will function like a normal high-quality pan.

These pans supposedly contain a magnetic layer that loses its magnetism once it reaches a mid to high temperature (around 485F). If it does do that, then the induction cooktop will stop working and the pan will begin to cool eventually regaining its magnetic properties which will allow the induction cooktop to heat the pan again (causing the pan to maintain temperature around 485F). Demeyere recommends using the pan on induction because they think this feature makes the pan superior to a standard pan and using the pan on any cooking surface except for induction makes it perform like a standard pan. There should be no safety/structural concern to using the pan on an electric cooktop aside for the inherent problems that would be present with any other pan.
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Patchouli
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, just read the excellent article. I have a question: Is there any difference in the thermal conductivity of aluminum once it has been anodized?
Thanks.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anodizing is a surface treatment - so technically perhaps a few tenths of a thousandth of a percent . . . essentially no.

anodizing does change the color and light/dark color absorb radiant heat differently - you would notice that effect.
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Patchouli
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, yes and no ?

I was thinking along the lines of the fact that anodizing makes the metal harder, and being harder it is perhaps more dense, and being more dense it would perhaps affect the time taken for thermal diffusion.

But like you say, maybe it wouldn't be noticeable.

e.g. the difference between say, all-clad MC2 and all-clad LTD2. (mind you, with all-clad I believe there's an actual thickness difference between these two lines as well).

I'm just trying to think like an engineer. Smile
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in theory every alloy and every different combination of "clad" will have a different coefficient.

I haven't see manufacturers publish actual data for their pans. but the difference in the "pure" metals is so great that a little bit one way or the other is not going to make a lot of difference.

the "numbers" vary depending on units, but for:
Aluminum 136
304 stainless 8

with aluminum 17 times "more conductive" than stainless - the overriding effect is due to the basic metal - coatings & cladding aside.
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Patchouli
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I'm currently looking into replacing my current s/s clad 11" casserole/rondeau pot that I use to boil things in (e.g. potatoes, pasta, corn, asparagus, etc) with something that heats up faster.

I'm trying to decide what would be the most conductive and fastest material for the purpose of bringing water to a boil. Even if I can just shave off a minute or two in the boiling time, I would be interested in getting whatever is the fastest pot. I'm guessing copper would be the fastest, followed by straight gauge alumnum, followed by a disk bottom pot?

is there a way to make an educated guess beforehand? Or iare there so many variables involved that it's a matter of trial and error.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silver conducts heat better than any other known element (to date)

if you can afford a solid silver pots and pans, I'd like to introduce you to my daughter . . . .

>>I'm trying to decide what would be the most conductive and fastest material for the purpose of bringing water to a boil. Even if I can just shave off a minute or two in the boiling time, I would be interested in getting whatever is the fastest pot.
<<

after silver copper is the "fastest" material.

I'm not sure I can understand how shaving 60-120 seconds off the time to boil a specific volume of water on a 'same' burner could justify the cost difference of Walmat cheepie stainless to $multihundred copper - but heh, it's your kitchen.

copper has other 'features' - got a bunch of it, love it.

with 14 copper pots/pans at my disposal, if I'm heating water to cook/steam corn, beans, asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli, summer squash - well gosh most anything . . . I don't reach for the copper, I get out the old cheap thin 'worthless' stainless steel.

if I'm fixin' a roux, yeah you bet the copper pans are nbr 1 on the grab list.
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dilbert wrote:
silver conducts heat better than any other known element (to date)

Here's my completely unhelpful comment on thermal conductivity - diamond beats silver. Maybe in the future we'll have the technology to produce a diamond bottom cooking vessel.

Anyway, a more constructive comment would be that I find that using a thin stainless steel pot is the fastest way to transfer energy from a standard burner for the purposes of boiling water. We don't care about hot spots, just about transmitting heat into the pot as rapidly as possible. A thin, highly conductive metal would be better, but, in general, these highly conductive materials are made thicker because they need to hold more heat energy due to how rapidly they heat up/cool down.

If you are flexible with what burner you want to use (and not necessarily the one on your range), then getting a countertop induction cooktop and an induction ready pot will usually yield the fastest possible water boiling time because the electrical energy is converted to heat energy extremely efficiently. My $100 1800W induction cooktop generally boils water about 20% faster than my 17,000 btu gas burner. (My notes show an average time of 12.5 minutes to bring 3-qt of 40°F water in a 6 qt stock pot with lid on to a rolling boil with the induction cooktop while the gas burner in the same scenario took 15.67 minutes. Boiling times should be shorter in practice because most people don't start with refrigerated water, but I did for my tests because then I could keep the starting temperature constant through the testing.)
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Jim Cooley



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 346
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll follow up on what Michael said about an induction cooktop.

A friend in India has a 2500 Watt induction cooktop (They run 220 V) and that damn thing is so fast it's amazing!

I WANT ONE!

She can boils two cups of water at room temp (30 C) in about 80 seconds, using a nothing more than a dented old stainless steel (well, it can't be all THAT stainless) pot.
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gmt1155
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Cookware Materials Reply with quote

Do you have any knowledge of 316Ti ?

I use this cookware especially because it does not have corrosion leaking into my food.
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AuntieMame58
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Cookware Post Reply with quote

I so wish the very thoughtful and informative post on cookware comparison had included the finest of cookware. That being 2.5mm copper lined with silver. Would you kindly post regarding this because it is astonishing and unrivaled in its excellence.

Thank you. Smile
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auntie -

who makes a copper pan that is lined with silver?
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IronRinger



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And who can afford it? Premium stainless steel is out of my price range....
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone asked about Titanium pots. What exactly does your manufacturer mean by that?

Backpacking shops sell pots made from titanium metal. These are very light weight, because the metal has a low density, and is strong enough to be kept thin. They also tend to have a conventional nonstick coating. These are good for boiling water when ounces count in your backpacking gear, but that's about it.

There is something else that is labeled as titanium, but is really just a nonstick coating that includes a titanium ceramic. It's a sales pitch just like the diamonds of Swiss Diamond.

I looked up 316Ti. This is a stainless steel (like the common 18/10) with some added molybdenum to improve corrosion resistance in chloride environments (less salt pitting?), and a bit of titanium, which improves stability above 800C. So the Ti part adds nothing in home cooking applications.
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