Do engineers in your part of the world use Fahrenheit? Sounds exotic to a person living in the metric world.
Okay, there's been a lot of commentary on slashdot and other sites on why a REAL engineer would use FAKE / LAME units. This is the only response I'll give.
In my mind, a real engineer is capable of working with whatever is given to him. A good engineer might not do an exact sixteenth decimal place conversion, but a good engineer will know when a precise conversion is necessary and an imprecise one is acceptable. Most engineers are capable of working in whatever unit constraints are provided them and can think in US, metric, or SI. I have conversations with engineers from other countries routinely where we will both use inches, microns, degrees celcius, and pounds in the same conversation.
I happen to live (and cook) in the United States where we use a weird system involving seemlingly random and confusing units. So, I present my recipes with these units because I will be using these units when I cook.
Now scientists on the other hand are a different breed from engineers and will require SI units...
For the Yorkshire pudding, you have to ensure the fat is really hot before you add the pancake mix (which is all that yourshire pudding is) - hot as in at the point of smoking.
Also if you don't have dripping, use lard. Don't use butter.
I don't tie my roast, or sear it.
I use a 250F oven.
I slice under the layer of fat that is traditional on the outside of the roast and slip slices of garlic clove between the fat and the meat. I also do this with any 'center' fat - pierce between the fat and the meat with a knife and slide in garlic.
Then I make a mix of herbs, cracked pepper, and course grain 'kosher' salt. I roll the meat in this mixture, creating a crust. Then I place it bones down into a baking dish and bake until medium rare.
The above additions for a tasty crust sound yummy!
I have made Yorkshire pudding in individual portions using a 12-portion muffin pan with 1 teaspoon of pan drippings/muffin cup per the Good Housekeeping cookbook recipe.
Great site, Michael!
regarding the SI units topic...
My high school physics teacher would sometimes throw in problems using English units because he wanted the students to be able to solve problems using any kind of units, so he would probably agree with you here.
He did tell us a funny story of a one student who was against using English units. In protest, the student would convert any English units given to metric, solve the problem, then convert back to English units for the answer. =)
English, Metric, IS... all the same. Sure, depending on wich hemisphere or influence zone you're in, one gets used to one or another metric system.
As an engineer one is prepared to work in either system, but that also depends on tool graduation. I always use the KISS principle to work, trying to get good results in a short time. Converting units from a system to another is time consuming, so is better for me to work with raw units, be those celsius, fahrenheit, kelvin or rankine.
This recipee also looks tasty, I'll try to try it before year's end.
keep it up, mike.
KISS: Keep It Simple & Stupid
This is my family's traditional Christmas meal...hmmm I can smell it now!
(I have an enormous piece in my fridge right this minute, just waiting to be cooked and eaten!)
Mr. Cho, Merry Christmas to you and yours!
I think you should post the temperatures in Kelvin. Your stove DOES do Kelvin, right?
Just did a prime rib last night for Christmas Eve dinner - our roast was just a shade under 10 lbs. For the rub I used approximately 2 TB whole pepper and a scant 1 TB whole allspice; ground this in a mortar, added approximately 1 1/2 TB kosher salt, about a half-dozen garlic cloves, finely minced, 1/4 cup Dijon mustard, 1 TB dry mustard, and about 1 TB maple syrup. Mixed this together well, coated the roast with it and let is sit for about 1 1/2 hours before roasting. If I would have had more time, I would have let it marinate for a few hours more. Started it at 450F for 20 minutes, then lowered the heat to 250-275F until the internal temperature registerd 125F. Total cooking time was about 3 hours. Came out perfectly medium rare in the middle, with the end cuts at medium. The end cuts have a nice zing to them from the rub, while the middle slices had just enough seasoning without being too spicy.
Me again, stealing your recipes! They are excellent, that's why I keep coming back.
As an editor, I wish you would use the supercript o with F or C, with a space after the degrees number.
Also, what would help lots of us in uniformizing would be to use Tbsp for tablespoon and tsp for tsp. But this does not hurt one bit your excellent recipes.
I don't believe an editor would use a word such as "uniformizing".
The cooking time is 3-4hours for the standing rib roast. If I dared to make it the night before, how could I re-heat it without ruining the rare-ness of it (the microwave cooks too well done from the inside out)
Any tips are appreciated - I am a first time S.R.R. cooker!! thanks
Good morning, Michael. In re Cooking temperature: In his "American Cookery" copyright 1972, chef James Beard offers a <preheated 180 to 200 degree oven> slow-roast method for standing rib, BUT he specifies "...roast without basting for approximately 23 to 24 minutes per pound, until it achieves an internal temperature of 120 to 125 degrees for rare meat; ..."
Your method specifies a far longer time per pound. How say you to Beard's time/pound? [I have not tried ANY low-heat method, only sear and temp reduce, etc]
Best regards & Happy Solstice: Nick F.
My estimate of 45 minutes per pound comes from how long it takes my 200°F oven to bring an eight pound roast to an internal temperature of 130°F. I took the totla time and divided by eight pounds. This has held true for the last two roasts that I prepared. (Usually, I tell my guests to show up at a certain time and that dinner will be done when it's done. I start preparing the final touches of the other dishes when the roast is sitting at 125°F - the last few degrees always seem to take forever.)
The extra ten degrees may account of some of the time discrepancy, but I doubt that it would double the time. I don't know what to say except, in my experience it takes closer to 45 minutes per pound to bring the roast to medium rare. Of course, I've always suspected that the minutes per pound estimate is a really bad hack as it's unlikely that the time it takes to heat a volume of meat is linear and predictable (what if my roast has more surface area than your roast?)... but that means a series of experiments that I cannot afford (both from a time and a money stand point) at this time in my life...
My thanks for your prompt response, Michael. And, indeed, the WEIGHT makes quite a difference, I'm sure. When I get very wealthy <it is to laugh>, I shall try experiments with roasts of approximately same geometry <and loin end, of course>, and approximate weights of, say, four pounds (2rib...tricky), six pounds (3rib) and eight pounds (4rib).
Your site is a total pleasure. Nick F.
I have a 14 lb prime rib (boneless) that needs to be cooked dec 24. I would like to seare it first at 450 for approx 25 minutes then reduce the heat to 250. I would like it cooked to a rare or med rare. I have no clue on any time estimate, can someone give me advice or help for my meat . I don't want to waste a lot of money or have Christmas eve dinner a disaster.
I recommend you go to Bed Bath & Beyond or your local home kitchen supply store and buy a probe thermometer
like this Polder model
. Thrust the probe into the thickest part of the roast (parallel to the direction of how you will slice it in order to minimize the chance of having slices with holes in them later). Program the thermometer to go off before
your desired temperature (taking into account carryover temperature during the resting period). With a 250°F oven, I recommend setting the thermometer to 128°F. After the thermometer goes off, pull the roast out (leave the probe in) and tent with aluminum foil and let rest about 30 minutes (the final temperature should peak at just above 130°F - I expect about a three to four degree upswing in temperature when roasting at 250°F).
Now, timing is going to be a bit tricky with a roast that big... My semi-educated guess is that you'll need an additional 4-5 hours after your first roast at 450°F (less time if you left the roast in the oven during the cooling period when the oven temperature is dropping to 250°F.
You can also opt to finish the roast early, and then drop your oven to as low of a temperature as you can (mine goes down to 170°F) and keep the roast there to keep warm. When it comes time to serve, pull it out, let it rest for thirty, and serve.
I have only recently found this site, and have been much amused and informed by the bacon studies!
However the Rib Roast of 5KG looms for Boxing Day with some Claret and company. What I am fascinated by is the meat thermometer probe. Unfortunateley Polder can't be had in UK, but I shall have to seek an equivalent? What is the probe wire made of to resist the temperatures of the hot oven as it snakes out, presumably through the door seal?
Probably I won't find a thermometer in time for 26th Dec, but any help on sourcing similar in UK would be a help for next time.
Great fun site!
(I suggest Donald Russell Direct for UK beef)usual disclaimer
Hi I was reading your cooking method of a rib roast. I too cook it the way you do but I also rub the meat with a little Kitchen bouquet before I put in oven. I also use th eslices of garlic under the fat. Just thought you might want to try it.
Wow, I love this site! Very helpful, as I do not want to ruin an expensive cut of beef. I have never heard of slow roasting prime rib, only heating to sear, then turning the oven off. I'm thinking slow roasting is the way to go. Thanks for the info.
Any equivalent probe thermometer should work. I believe Kitchen Craft and Taylor both make products for sale in the UK.
is available from Amazon.co.uk but I'm not sure you'll be able to get it in time for Dec. 25. You may have to go to the old standby of opening the oven door and shoving a thermometer into the roast every half an hour after the first couple hours.
I'm not sure what the probe wires are made of exactly. It looks and feels like the actual wires that conduct electricity are protected by a metal mesh that wraps around an insulator around the wire. The insulating substance is unknown to me. The cable does lead from the probe through the oven door seal to the thermometer unit.
Excellent site. My own experiance w/ the standing rib is very consistant w/ your recipe recomendations. I prefer to pre-heat to 500 degrees F, turn down to 200 degrees F , then place roast in oven v. the pan sear method. Reading the comments on cook time, I think you need to build your own data based on experiance ( engineering judgement). The ratio of surface area to mass, surface to center distance, bone configuration are all variables. Starting temp of the roast is a significant variable as well, although this one is under your control. For a first time chef, for meal planning purposes, I recommend 30' per pound for roasts under 6 lbs. 40 min for 8 lb. and up. You MUST monitor temp w/ an internal probe to determine actual degree of "doneness".:)
I don't think anyone here would *recommend* pre-cooking your bad-a** standing rib roast, but sometimes one has to make concessions to the world.
I have found that your best bet is to probably cook it, let it rest until cool, and then slice it into the portion sizes you have in mind. Then the next day heat your oven to somewhere between 300oF and 400oF, place your slices between very large leaves of cabbage, then put the cabbage/cow packages into the oven on top of a rack placed within something to catch drippings.
How long? That's the tricky part. Until they are hot. For some reason, though, the cabbage keeps the slices from browning on the outside while they get nice and toasty.[/i]
Just came upon your website and although my roast is similar to some...I need help! Standing rib, 7 bones, 19 1/2 pounds!! I want to cook slow method at 250 degrees. How long do you think it will take?? Should I start today?? (: Would I be better off cutting it in half? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Help! I have a 14 lb Standing Rib Roast and have no clue how to roast it. I feel I have read too many recipes and am extremely confused. Could someone give me a good clear recipe/ instruction to follow? I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
Wow... as a former wannabe engineer turned to first love, music/singing/teaching (which really is engineering through and through)...
I was just innocently looking for research notes on the 'perfect' Prime Rib recipe (again) and I googled myself here and got sooo much more...
I am in total awe to witness such a marvelous site as this. I do have the analytical mind (to a fair extreme) surrounded by linear and 'anti-linear' thinking... along with a yearning for visuals, graphs, etc... love the photos and recipe cards.
And, I am LOL ('cuz I soo relate)... the 'engineerist' commentary, criticisms, and especially the temptations for further research and development... I am just baffled by those who forego the research for lack of proper funding? I was always led to believe that I would have had a far wealthier outcome as an engineer (compared to the 'starving' artist route I passed through). I'm wondering what happened... or what else is taking up all that funding that couldn't allow for a few to several prime ribs?
Thanks in metric and all other sorts of measurably huge amounts,
p.s. If the post is +/- 3:33pm Christmas Eve 'there'... it's 7:33am here... Curious to know where 'you' are... I'm an ex-wife/now better friend of a UK native (about 8 hours forward from us). In fact, he will be sharing the Rib Roast with me later today... and with far more laughs than when we were married.
I'm not an engineer and I don't play one on tv, but I'm married to the daughter of one and hopefully that counts for something.
My question is;
I've read a lot about cooking rib roasts at the traditional 350 method. Has anyone tried the approach of searing at a high temp, then slow cooking at 200-250? This is supposedly the best approach for cooking a roast that is consistently cooked all the way through.
My boneless rib eye is 14lbs.
Any comments/advice greatly appreciated until count-down time; noonish tomorrow.
[b:cb2777c9f4]Actually, my question should have read;
I've read a lot about cooking rib roasts at the traditional 350 method, and just read about the slow cooking 200-250 degree method. Given the two methods, what's the best approach for cooking a roast that is consistently cooked all the way through and tender??
My boneless rib eye is 14lbs.[/b:cb2777c9f4]
How long will it take a 12 lb standing rib roast (short end) to cook to rare to medium rare at 250 degreesin a convection oven?
Hi, I have a 4lb boneless prime rib roast. It came from the butcher tied together with a string "netting". What is the best way to cook it? I wanted to rub it with cracked black pepper & crushed garlic....Do I do this with the netting on it & then cut it off before serving? Or would it be better to remove the string netting, rub it & retie string around it in a few places?
Thanks in advance!
This reply is probably much too late to help anyone in their Christmas dinner in 2005 (sorry, I was out with my family on vacation - actually I still am on vacation...)
In answer to the last several questions (in random order):
The best recipe I know of for roasting a prime rib is the one detailed in this article - hands down, no competition.
How long do you need to cook a 12, 14, 19.5 lb. rib in a 200°F, 250°F, or X°F conventional or convection oven? I have no idea - sorry. Please see my earlier comment on the difficulty in assessing the exact time of doneness and the reliance on a probe thermometer. You can do what great prime rib restaurants do - cook it early and then keep it warm for in a really low temperature oven (170°F or lower if your oven can do it).
String nettings? If you want to add a spice rub, remove the netting, apply the rub, and then retie between the ribs.
I hope everyone is having a Merry Christmas regardless of how your standing rib roasts came out. :) It's all about being with family, friends, or your community, right? Speaking of which, mine is calling for me to return to them...
Oh, by the way, I'm in the U.S. Pacific Time Zone. I believe the forums default to GMT if you haven't set your time preferences in your profile.
In the interest of adding to your data on various sizes of roasts and cooking times: I cooked a 4.11 lb. Ribeye Roast at 200 degrees F for 3 hours. I removed it from the oven when my quick read thermometer registered 128 degrees because I like my meat just slightly under medium rare. The meat was exactly to my liking - though I did not see the 10 degree rise in temperature that was supposed to have occured while my meat was resting for 20 minutes. Thank you for your excellent web site. I love your logical approach to cooking.
Signed -- The wife of an engineer in Ohio.
I ran into the problem of redicting how long it would take to cook the roast. My instructions were to have the 7 lb standing rib roast ready and med-rare by 4pm on Xmas day. Different recipes and instructions all seemed to give inconsistent cooking times. So my scientist neice and I decided to collect some data so that we would have some info to go on next year. Here's our experience. We recorded all temperatures using a Williams-Sonoma temperature probe with remote readout. All measurements were taken with the probe inserted to the center of the roast. Our oven is a standard GE electric oven - no convection.
I pulled the roast out of the fridge one hour before cooking time. During this time the center temperature barely changed: started at 43 F and after one hour it was 45 F. No surprising, but clearly the phrase "getting it to room temperature" more of a saying that truth.
I first cooked the roast for 10 minutes at 450 F. The temperature increase picked up. After 10 minutes we were at 47F.
I then lowered the oven setting to 250 F and let it roast slowly. Now the center temperature really began heating up and at a relatively constant rate. From 47 F to about about 100 F the rate was about 1.5 min/deg F. After 100 F it begins to slow at bit, but not dramatically. I had an average rate of 1.9 min/F toward the end of the oven time. We pulled it out when the probe hit 125 F after an oven time of 2 hours 41 minutes (10 min at 450 F, 2 hr 30 min at 250 F).
Average cooking times were:
23.1 min/lb to get to a center temperature of 125 F
21.8 min/lb to get to a center temperature of 121 F
The surprising part of this was how much the center temperature increased after we removed the roast from the oven. I had read in one recipe that it would increase 5 F and in another recipe that it would increase 5 to 10 F. We saw an increase of 13F up to 138F. This occurred over a period of 43 minutes.
I was a bit concerned that the 138 F center temperature would push me past our goal of med-rare and squarely into med territory, but 138 F seemed perfect. The meat was evenly pink throughout and plenty tender.
For future reference, I plan to stick with the 450 F / 250 F method and to estimate times using the average cooking rates above plus an allowance of 45 minutes "set up time" after it comes out of the oven.
Following the recipe detailed above, you should not have much carryover temperature increase. It might increase 1-2 degrees. Carryover temperature increases are caused by having a temperature gradient within the roast causing the interior to continue to rise in temperature while the exterior just begins to cool. The 200°F roasting method has very little difference in temperature from the very center to the semi-center, so not much carryover cooking occurs.
I hoist my whiskey glass to you Mr. Chu,
Excellent recipe. We followed the instructions as posted.
8 lb'er and it turned out perfect. I had so many compliments.
Cooking time was about an hour less than calculated using a coventional natural gas oven.
Next time I do this I will grab the data logger from work and instrument the cooking process.
Any recommendations for how to reheat the leftovers from a standing rib roast??
Reheating without cooking the roast further is a difficulty. Slice off the amount of roast that you want to reheat, slip into a Ziploc bag, seal, and drop into hot tap water (about 120-140°F). The water will gently reheat the meat without pushing it into well done status (like a microwave oven would). The amount of time it takes to reheat to eating temperature varies depending on the thickeness of cut and how cold it was when you started to warm it up. Exchange the water even ten minutes or so to keep the water temperature up.
Man, engineers are a whiny bunch. Just cook! (I realize humor may have been intended but....) This is a good recipe.
I read your excellent detailed recipe, I am also an engineer..I am wondering how do you slice the meat piece after cooking it.Do you have to remove the bone first?..how do you do that?
Yes, remove the bones first by cutting along the inside of the ribs around the rib roast itself. If you have a small roast, you can cut off all the ribs at once, but if your roast is very large, then you may need to cut off thee or four at a time. After the ribs have been removed, you can separate the ribs by splitting them with a sharp knife (just run the knife between the ribs). These are seriously delicious pieces of meat for the more adventurous party members (meaning - guests who don't mind getting their hands dirty).
Once the ribs have been removed, take the roast and start at the cut end, use a long sharp knife and slice the roast. The slices can be thick or thin, but should be cut straight across the roast. (Two ends of your roast came already cut, just follow the same direction of cut and work your way across the roast.)
Lots of methods,times & temps abound. As an engineer, I was inspired by an old issue of Cooks Magazine. They did the complete matrix experimentally, buying 20+ rib roasts and cooking with all the permutations people seem to use. The hands-down winner (they compared to the best restaurant roast), was a few minutes to brown on the stove, then in to a 200-degree oven until 130 or so for medium rare. There will be little or no temp runup during resting. It comes out perfectly uniform from end-to-end and from outer to inner, no Medium spots. I've been using this for 8 years and never had anything less than rave reviews.
If you sear on top of the stove first, (I have a nice big cast iron skillet), then would you put the same cast iron skillet into the oven or switch to a nice shiny roasting pan? (If the latter, I would assume save the skillet, deglaze later and add to the other pan drippings for jus or gravy).
Also, if switching to a roasting pan, do you lightly oil the pan first or not?
Or do you brown on the stove in a roasting pan rather than cast iron?
You have a great site. The replies have been great in helping me evaluate the options and prepare a wonderful New Years day meal. Since really good engineers share data, here is some input for the file. I used a bone in roast that started out just below 6# and aged it for 6 days in the fridge covered with cheese cloth. At cooking time it weighed 5.5#. At 1 1/2 hrs out of the fridge it only rose to 47 F. I browned it on all sides in a pan, rubbed it with garlic and seasoned with salt and pepper. In a shallow, ceramic pan, on a rack and with a 225F oven the internal temp rose to 127 in 3 hours, about 26 degrees per hour. After 45 minutes of resting, temp was 132. The ribs were trimmed off for eaier slicing. The first cut revealed a perfect, juicy, medium pink center. One of the guests liked theirs more done than rare so I put an end slice under the broiler, cut side up for more doneness. The flavor and taste was everything hoped for and all of my guests could not believe how good it was. The two bottles of Shiraz may have helped. It served six people (about 1/2" to 3/4" slices) with a little left over. This recipe is a keeper and will become a New Years standard for us. Thanks to all the contributors who helped make this possible.
I usually sear on a different pan than the one I roast on. You can definitely use the same pan, but remember to elevate the roast on a grill so the drippings can fall into the pan (away from the roast).
I do not bother to oil the pan that I am searing on. When you sear the roast, just let it sit for a minute or two on each side. When that side has seared, it will release from the pan easily.
This was one of the first articles I wrote for Cooking For Engineers. Upon rereading it, I think I'm going to have to rewrite parts of it and add more information (and definitely a lot more pictures).
:huh: silly a question as it may be...what is the cooking time @ 200F if I have two 6.25lb standing ribs in the roater???
I've only done two roasts at the same time once. That time, the roasts took the same amount of time as when I roast one - about 45 minutes per pound - so about 4-1/2 to 5 hours.
I'd appreciate others who have tried this to comment on their experience.
I was very glad to find your site today while looking for a new Salmon receipe. I have been married to an engineer for 34 years and he has a million reasons why not to cook.
Your site has come to my rescue. It if perfect for the analytical mind.
Awesome site, being an Engineer, I was immediately drawn in, trying the pan seared red pepper recipe tonight. My problem is however prime rib, cook it once a year, Xmas, and the last two years I have had 12 lb roast go beyond the desired temp. Cooking 20 mins a pound (200F)(boneless in both cases) it was flagrantly overcooked to well done! This year bought a new poke in thermometer (will buy one you can leave in) and thinking I was being extra cautious, bought a oven monitoring gauge (hangs on the oven rack) to make sure my oven temp was correct. A desparity of 25- 30 degrees! I see no mention of matching temp setting , new oven this year (dacor) - any experince with that? Do you think it was all about being boneless? - jokes expected...... Thanks
I've done prime rib on a rotisserie 4 times now and agree with the theory that it's done when it's done. This weekend is an annual poker tournament I attend and feel that it will be easier said than done. I use a Weber grill and turn off the middle and back burners for a slow 225 degree roast. The hardest part is keeping early poker turnouts from opening up and looking.
We are planning on posting a bouncer (6'2" hockey player/ civil engineer) nearby, but fear his legendary appetite might create a conflict.
I will post our results.
This may seem a sacrilege to some, but our favorite part of our slow-cooked rib roasts is the sandwiches we make from the leftovers. We make two kinds -
HOT ROAST BEEF - Make a good gravy, get it bubbling hot, slice the meat thin, make a great slice of toast, use tongs to dunk the slices and load them onto the toast. The goal is to get them hot without further cooking.
ROAST BEEF DIP - Make a good au jus, get it bubbling hot, slice the meat thin, slice open a hearty sanwich roll, dunk it and then dress it as desired (we add nothing), use tongs to dunk the roast slices and load them onto the sandwich. As always, the goal is to get the sliced meat hot without further cooking.
Contract designers would be cooking and eating a fillet.
Though I'm merely a lowly technician, I gravitate toward the scientific perspective on most of the answers needed to respond to the questions here. I wonder why some simple physics isn't appied here. The same science which is appied to baking pastries and custards is also appropiate to roasting, braising, broiling, broasting, frying, boiling, steaming, sauteeing, and anything else I might have forgotten. This would consist of the variables BTU output of the appliance, density, volume, and water content of the item being cooked. There are minor considerations such as the temperature coefficient of the medium conducting the heat and the rate of the heat transfer, but in order to hypothosize a universal formula for cooking a piece of meat to the desired state would require the careful collection of data under controlled conditions. Cooking is an art that is not immune from the laws of physics and physics underlie_ the principles of everything. Ya think?
This roast will never be done. You Engineers will debate conversion and physics until the roast is well done and no one will eat it.
Time to take it out of the oven. (ha ha)
Chuck, Manufacturing guy.
ps: I really like the garlic idea. Niuce touch!
That's why I recommend the use of a probe thermometer. That way, I can set it and forget it as I argue / discuss with my friends about the merits of using low heat vs. high heat roasting and start a pool going with the various estimates of when it will be done. If we get carried away, the BEEP BEEP BEEP from the Polder will tell me to come back to reality and pull the roast out of the oven. :)
My convection oven at 200°F took 4 hours to roast a 9.5 pound rib roast from 37°F to 130°F, as measured by both a thermocouple (accurate to +/- 0.1°F) and a remote sensor digital oven thermometer (Pyrex professional brand +/- 1°F). Another thermocouple with a 'gas' (open grid) sensor confirms that the thermostat on the convection oven is accurate.
So, I have to go with James Beard (and the New Joy of Cooking) for these times, at least in my convection oven.
Delicious! Thanks for the article and the comments!
:) That was the best prime rib I have ever cooked. The recipe is simple and delicious. Thank for the great meal. Also, I would agree that the thermometer made the difference, although the 45 minutes per hour was right on.
The sirloin tip roast (AKA round tip roast, AKA beef knuckle) is cut from the front of the leg, the area from the hip to the knee. It is not associated with the rib.
Very Good recipie for any cut, try it with "Chuck" or any other cut that has good "Marbeling" works the same, shorter cooking times. Be sure to increase the "Done" temp with smaller pieces. as they don't retain as much heat. Never over 138 before removing it if you like rare.
For everyone talking about the time to cook, I think only one person got it right, buy an independant thermometer. You oven can be off by as much as 30 degrees. This can make a huge difference in cooking time. Also I do mine a little backwards 200 until roast is @110 then crank it up to 500 to put a nice crust on it (about 10 minutes & use your eyes if it looks cruty enough it is) then pull out and let stand at least 30 minutes. This will make a rare roast, with a very crusty outside.
I'm an engineer and always looking for the "right" way to do things...so this site is very helpful. Last night I did a 3-rib (6-lb) roast on a VT Castings BBQ grill - my first cooking on it! It was for a guests 60th birthday, so I was a bit nervous, but went for it anyway. After letting the roast come to room temp and tying it up, I rubbed-on some olive oil and seared the roast over direct flame for 3-minutes on each side. Then I rubbed it with coarse sea salt, fresh ground pepper and a little paprika. I placed the roast on a rack in a pan over the center of the grill (no cover on the roasting pan of course), shut off the two center burners and left the two outer burners on their lowest settings. An oven thermometer placed on the "floor" of the rack inside the roasting pan measured 200F, and the thermometer on the exterior of the grill hood measured 350F. Now, mind you, the grill thermometer is up high near the end of the hood so it was measuring directly over a burner. At any rate, the meat was done to 130F in exaclty 2.5 hours. At that point I opened the grill lid, placed the cover on the roast pan and let it sit for 30-minutes.
I carved the roast by slicing the ribs off the back, and then sliced nice "typical" rib cuts to serve. OUTSTANDING! I was a little worried because the roast cooked faster than this site suggests, but except for the outer 1/8-inch around, EVERY BIT of the roast was perfectly medium rare. The guests went nuts. My wife loved it, and my two young children couldn't get enough.
Tonight I basted the ribs up with BBQ sauce and grilled them for about 7-minutes on each side. They were super-yummy, although next time 'round I'll cook them a little longer - I like my ribs done more than I do my prime rib.
Hi. Recently ate at Sanfords Pub and Grub in Spearfish S.D.They make the best prime rib that I've had in a restaurant. I ordered the prime rib rare. I happened to have a view of the kitchen, over a counter,and watched as the chef took what appeared to be an already cooked cold roast,cut off a thick piece and that was all I could see. My meal came and the prime rib was as I had ordered it. Any ideas as to how it was heated back up?
Most restaurants that serve prime rib keep the cooked rib roast under heat lamps or in a special "oven" that maintains the temperature at around 120°F so it stays hot but doesn't rise in temperature.
Some restaurants will prepare several roasts of varying doneness while other restuarants will cook the roast at higher temperatures to get a larger area of medium vs. medium-rare vs. rare and will cut the roast at different points to serve depending on your request. This usually means the rare or medium-rare roasts are not as good as they could have been where a restuarant specifically prepared an entire roast for that target temperature.
Thanks for the reply Michael. After reading your original post on how to cook prime rib, I can't wait to try it.Thinking of maybe giving it a try this weekend. Wondering if you have ever tried to barbecue prime rib and if so. how would you do it. I have heard of using a drip pan with some water or cooking wine,etc in it ,and placing the pan on top of the coals. Then the roast is placed on top of the grid and slowly cooked.Ken
We go out for a delicious prime rib. I think it is boiled. Is that possible? Is there a recipe available for boiled prime rib. I visited your site today for the first time looking for such a recipe. Would love to try it at home.
I happened in to this great website while searching for a coherent clam chowder recipe. I love it. I cook prime rib very often and use a modification of the sear and slow roast technique that seems to greatly enhance the natural juice retention of the meat. I place the roast on a roasting rack so the bone side is above the roasting pan surface. I preheat the oven to 450 F and then place the pan in the middle. When I first hear a sizzling sound, about 6-10 minutes I reduce the heat to 200 F. I personally use a convection oven but this is not necessary. Here is where I vary from what has been suggested. Using an instant read thermometer rather than one placed in the roast, I start monitoring the center temp of the roast after it has been in the oven about 18-20 minutes per pound. When the central temperature reaches 118-120 F I remove the roast and wrap it in aluminum foil and place it on a plate in a non energized microwave (serves only as a wll insulated space), or a good cooler that is obviously without ice. In about 30 minutes, the roast will be uniformly on the rare side of medium rare. With a good quality true prime rib this is perfect for many but you can wait to remove the roast until the central temp is 122-124 F for a slightly less rare result. Removing the roast from heat early and letting the cooking process continue virtually eliminates the loss of juices (get some good stock for your gravy) and yields an incredibly uniform result.
Give it a try
There are a lot of comments here from folks that just don't seem to understand engineers. Without further noise:
Source: Whole Foods
Size: 7lbs (3 ribs, cut from the loin end, which the butcher was happy to do)
Preparation: wrap in towel, place in fridge for 3 days
Day of consumption:
09:21 - 34° - removed from fridge
11:00 - 38°
11:30 - 41°
12:00 - 44° - browned 3 minutes per side, 5 sides on med-high heat
12:30 - 49° - into a 200° oven
13:30 - 78° -
14:00 - 93° -
15:00 - 114° -
16:00 - 130° - removed from oven
16:15 - 134° -
16:30 - 134° - undercooked - returned to 200° oven
17:00 - 138° - removed from oven and carved
Browning and cooking were done in a 10" Cast Iron Dutch Oven in which the roast barely fit. After browning, I inserted a heavy foil pie pan, inverted and cut to fit, with hole punched in it so the juices could drain. Browning rendered a fair bit of fat.
Temperatures were measured using the oven thermometer (+10/-1°), a calibrated over thermometer (+/- 1°), and a Maverick remote probe thermometer (+/- 2°, tested with ice & boiling water) inserted between two of the ribs, with the end of the probe centered in the roast.
After going back in the oven for 1/2 hour and raising the temp to 138°, we had perfect deep pink prime rib, all the way through. I just finished warming up a piece in a ziplock, in hot water, like Michael recommends. Excellent.
I just now happened upon your Cooking For Engineers site. I am so glad you created this for us analytical minded people. I am about to prepare a standing rib roast for Thanksgiving for some friends. I have a handwritten (by me) recipe from my father who was a cook in the army in WWII. He loved to cook and continued in that industry all his career after the war. He died several years ago and this is the first time I am attempting this recipe without him here to call on the phone for walk-through advise.
My notes on how to cook the standing prime rib are jumbled - out of character for an analytical mind. But it is because I had to take notes as he talked. He spoke like an artist but he had analytical spurts. I am also a map (visual) person, so you can see why the notes are a mish mash of analytical-visual-artistic learning/communicating styles. Because of this I had to check out the web for help to interpret my own notes. And miraculously there's your website - waiting just for me. I love it! Your link is now saved to my desktop! I am now able to rearrange my notes and answer my question marks (200 degrees or not) (Kosher salt before or after searing) etc. Thank you for this website!
your reponse is perfect. Lazy engineers complain about conversion when dealing w/ international "algorithms or recipes". Lucky for me, i'm a lazy engineer, that happens to use the same units as you do. (SWEET). Great recipe. I agree whole heartidly, all ya need for a good cut of meat is salt, pepper and and a low temperature.
I'd like to try this method and was wondering if i use a cut of meat that does not have bones attached will my cooking time still be 40-45 minutes per pound? (I hope to find an 8lb roast)
For the last few years I have been attempting to recapture the flavor of the standing rib roast my grandmother cooked in the late 1950s and early 1960s. She grew up on a farm in Wyoming and raised three kids on a farm in Nebraska through the Depression. A stroke ended her speech when I was too young to have extracted her recipes from her head, because she never wrote anything down. I have solved the corn pudding recipe (just Google "Memphis Corn Pudding") but have yet to have cracked the rib roast or the dinner rolls.
Anyway, in addition to Michael's searing-and-200 method (with the searing coming either through a skillet or a 500-degree oven), I have found two other methods that have produced interesting results (still not Grandma's though):
Wannabe food scientist Alton Brown reverses the searing-and-200 method with a long, slow cook, a rest and then a quick 500-degree flash at the end: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_17372,00.html
Without the terracota pot I tried this to OK results; maybe you really need the pot.
Ina Gartner (Barefoot Contessa) is a 350-degree gal, though she varies that a bit as well: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_25276,00.html
. I found the meat less tender than in the sear-and-slow method.
The aforementioned James Beard also proposes that a three- or four-rib roast can be cooked thusly: For a 7:30 p.m. dinner, do the normal seasoning and place the roast in a 375-degree oven at 11:30 a.m.; shut off the oven (but leave the roast inside) at 12:30 p.m. At 6 p.m., turn the oven again at 375 for another hour, pull the roast out and let it rest for 30 minutes. I've never tried this one.
I've given up on both analog and digital quick-read thermometers and am ordering a Poulder today, with the understanding that the Poulter probe wires eventually burn out. A new wire and probe costs $15, while the whole shebang costs $10. You've got to love American consumer society.
Help. I am picking up a full standing (ribs in) prime rib that my butchers says will weigh in at about 22lbs. Based on everything I have read through this great forum, are my calculations correct in assuming it will take almost 10 hours at 200 degrees F? Could I achieve the same slow cook effect by turning my heat up to-say 225 degrees to shave off a few minutes (hours) of cooking time? Thanks in advance, Michael
Wow michael, 22lbs? I seriously doubt your roast will take 10 hours. The largest one I roasted was 12lbs. That one took 5 hours @150*F. My experience is that as rib roasts get larger they get longer but not much thicker. The largest rib roast I've seen had a diameter of about 8".
Your oven heat has to penetrate a thickness of 3 to 4 inches of protein (the radius of the cross section of the joint), regardless of weight.
This year I have an oven that allows me to roast as low as 125*F. I plan on searing the roast in the oven at 525*F for 15 minutes then turn the temperature to 125*F (my target internal temp) for the remainder of the cooking time.
I'll start it earlier than usual. If internal temperature reaches 125* early, no big deal, I'll just leave it in the oven until we serve it. Internal temperature is not going to rise any higher. At that temp. the roast won't need to rest.
Michael, my 12 pound roast was about 16" in length. I'm really interested in knowing the dimensions of your roast when you get it (length/diameter).
Expecting to feed 18 adults for Christmas dinner. What size Rib roast should I buy?
Provided that you're serving side dishes and trimmings, 0.75lb servings should be adequate. That translates to 13 to 14lb roast.
If Prime Rib is your only entree - expect to feed 2 people per rib. Usually, my dinner guests end up consuming only about 1/4 to 1/3 rub per person with a mixed group and a variety of food available (some take 1-in. cuts while others split a 1/4-in. cut). If all your guests are hearty eaters - you'll basically need two roasts going at the same time.
Hi - We have an 18.72 lb rib roast to cook for christmas eve. My plan is to roast at 200 starting at midnight and expect the roast to be medium rare and remove from oven approx 2 pm., let stand 1 hour and carve at 3 pm. Do I have it right? :huh:
Crash, thanks for your reply. 17 inches by 8.5 inches in diameter. Weighing in at 20.5 lbs. I like your idea of cooking at 125 degrees. Unfortunately I just checked my over and it only goes down to 175 degrees. But I am going to try your system. Here is my big dilemma folks. I am serving dinner for friends at 7:00PM. I’m trying to calculate my cooking time at 20.5 lbs at 175 degrees to get an internal temp of 130 degrees. Any suggestions on the approximate cooking time per pound? Thanks to all, and to all a good night. Happy Holidays. Michael
I am glad I found this site - many great ideas. I have a couple of questions if anyone can help. I ordered a 16lb prime rib for Christmas Eve dinner and picked it up today. It is off the bone and not what I expected. It is roughly 18" long by 10" and about 2.5" to 3" thick. It is it best to roll it up and tie it or just cook it as is? Will this affect the cooking times discussed above?
Following your recipe or directions, it was the best prime rib I ever cooked!
I have some leftovers and would like to serve it again, but I have always had trouble with the meat getting too tough and/or too dry. What is your suggestions in reheating the perfect medium rare meat????
The very best method that I've used is bagging the meat in a zip top bag and weighting ti down so it's submerged in very hot (but not boiling) water. The time it takes to reheat varies according tot he thickenss of the cut and the temperature it was when it went into the water, but, generally, after 30 minutes or so, the meat is nicely warmed up without continuing to cook it.
Microwaving also works fairly well if the meat has relatively warm to begin with (or has warmed up froma bagged soak in hot water). If it takes longer than 1 minute to heat up with the microwave, it's not a good solution - but if the meat is room temperature and you want to quickly bring it up to eating temperature, about 30 seconds in the microwave works without over cooking parts of the beef.
I am an engineer with a degree in Bio-Medical Engineering from Duke. This approach permeates almost everything I do.
I cooked 2 such roasts lately: one on Christmas day and one night before last for a party. I used the recipe in the December 2006 Gourmet which cooked in 2½ hours at 350º F. The experiment I did was to use a 4 rib piece of real prime beef for Christmas and choice beef for the party. The choice beef was half as expensive at $9/lb and it tasted better. I know that the pleural of anecdote is not data, but I will not feel like I am missing anything by using choice beef again.
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binaries and those who do not.
Used this recipe last night for the first time, and wanted to thank you for such simple advice. My rib roast came out beautifully and my husband, who loves prime rib, was greatly satisfied.
Keep up the good work! :)
I'm going with a 19.5 lbs. Searing 20 mins at 450 F, then bringing it down to 250 F. Cooking it to an internal Temp of 130 F. A little confused as to the approximate cooking time. How long will this take to cook?
Did the cooking time of 14 hours at 200 F work out?
Hi. Have you tried covering roast with layer of rock salt,kosher salt,or sea salt. Just wondering what the salt does , what temp to cook at and how does the roast turn out using this method. Thanx.
To everyone who posted data on this site I feel as though a thank you is in order. My eveneing is winding down after an all day battle that I feel you are the heroes of. I somewhat unexpectedly found myself with a 20# standing rib that needed cooking. I am no stranger to cooking beef but I have always had my home-grown beef butchered and cut the prime into rib steaks.
Last night I found this site and imediately felt at ease. I printed the entire chat log and decided to get up early on the morning of my maiden prime voyage and decide a plan of attack for my 5:30 dinner for 15. After reading the entire chat log I decided to use a little of everyones input. With only 6 hours until crunch time a 200 temp was out, even so I read one entry championing a 250-275 temp and from what I learned on this site it seemed the lowest temp possibility at my disposal.
Used a minced garlic, prepared mustard, powdered mustard, worschestershire, red pepper, chile pepper, onion salt, "If it sounds good it probably is rub".
Set my propane grill up to high used extra virgin olive oil in an aerosol can to coat the roast and generously sprinkled the roast with course salt and fresh ground pepper, then seared it over the flames on all sides.
Preheated indoor oven to 265, rubbed seared roast with afore-mentioned rub and placed on a "rack" of onion slices one-half to three-quarters an inch thick. I made a rack of onion because I didn't have a metal rack and thought the au jus would benefit anyway. "side note, temp of 265 will not burn onions".
Roasted in convection oven at 265 for 5 hours until internal thermo read 125. Served with a 1cup mayo, 1half cup horseradish, 1 tbsp fresh lemon juice and salt to taste sauce to be slathered, au jus also.
Knocked everyones socks of including mine. Thank you everyone who shared their experience it truly made ours.
I love the site (and I'm an engineer!) Incidentally, if you have a Kitchenaid Mixer you might really like the KitchenAid Cookbook they sell. I love it. The bread recipes say things like "turn it on speed 2 for 2 minutes" instead of "process it until it looks doughy and elastic" ;-) I do much better with the objective data instead of just subjective descriptions...they frustrate me.
Anyway, I tried my very first prime rib last night. Thanks to all who have contributed to this site. The truth is that my cooking of it didn't match my plan...the evening got all crazy...but despite this, the roast turned out fabulous and I figured I'd add to the data.
It was a 4.34 lb choice standing rib roast...4 bones I think. A little roast.
I preheated the oven to 450 degrees F (conventional). As soon as I put the roast in, I turned it down to 200 degrees F. I skipped the searing on the stove...running late..and didn't use a rack...just put in a baking pan and that seemed to work fine. There wasn't that much grease.
It cooked at 200 degrees for 2 hours 27 mins. Then I panicked and turned the oven up to 350 degrees because it was getting really late. It cooked at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. At that point, my cheap thermometer said it was 120 degrees in the center but I took it out anyway. I didn't let it rest, and just served it. It came out nicely pink nearly throughout, with good browning on the outside. About 1/2" around the outside edge was well done. It was somewhere between rare and medium-rare...perfect for me. When I went to slice the remainder of the roast after supper I noticed it was much more done...medium-rare or maybe a bit more...light pink throughout but no red...so clearly the center had heated up a bit more while sitting on the serving plate (if it had rested, I think the whole thing would have gone to that).
So...don't be overly intimidated by your first attempt, and know that all is not lost if your plan goes awry.
I just ordered a probe thermometer (they had it at Bed Bath & Beyond and Target) that includes a wireless remote unit you can take with you to monitor the temp of the roast and hear the alarm sound (I would have trouble hearing a timer go off in the kitchen). You can even clip this device to your belt so you don't wander away from it. (I'm still pretty easily flustered in my attempts to entertain people in my home).
I just thought I'd add to the data (even if the whole thing was a bit haphazard!)
I'll do this again!
It should be noted that this process is relatively difficult to get wrong. As I see it you can only mess it up if you do one of the following three things:
1. Burn the meat. i.e. Letting the internal temp get above 140F.
2. Not letting the meat rest after cooking.
3. Burn the meat. i.e. Turning the outside to charcoal.
The first one is easy. Use a probe thermometer and count on carry-over heating: I usually count on about 3% of the difference of the temperature. e.g. 200F oven for a 125F roast results in 75F x 3% = 2.25F carry-over. 300F oven for a 125F roast results in 175F x 3% = 5.25F carry-over. This is most valid for large roasts which are longer than they are thick. Your mileage may vary.
The second one is a little more tricky. When do you know you've let it rest enough? I wait until the inner temperature finishes rising and drops back to the temperature at which I pulled it out of the oven. e.g. I pull the roast at 125F. It rises to 128F. So I have to wait until the temperature drops back to 125F. Note: This could easily take an hour or more on a large piece of meat.
The third one is simple in execution but complex scientifically. It has to do with the complex chemical reactions of the Maillard and caramelization reactions. The process turns the proteins and sugars in the meat into more complex compounds which are generally brown in color. Cook too hot for too long and the outside will turn black and burn.
These reactions start at temperatures as low as 230-250F and occur at a faster rate as the temperature goes up.
So generally it is a good idea to not roast at a temperature above 250F. Also, remember that a lower temperature is better because cooking a roast is not all that different from cooking a custard:
The faster you cook, the more protein coagulation you're going to get and as a result you will wring out more water from the meat. This usually means that even with a proper resting period, more of the juice of the meat will run out onto the plate when the roast is served.
So if you have the time, cook slower. Even slower than 200F if your oven can manage it. Just make sure that you set the temperature at or above the final doneness temperature of the meat (i.e. above 127F for medium-rare).
Also, use an oven thermometer. Ovens suck, especially at low temperatures. At least borrow one from a friend to prove to yourself that you actually need one. I'm betting you do.
1. Have the meat pre sliced into portions.
2. Let it get at room temp.
3. Place the portions in an aju on a low simmer until heated through
That would be how we did it at the restaraunt I worked at.
I a not an "engineer" by education, but I am an "engineer" by motherhood. LOL...Great site. I do this Prime Rib Roast. I leave mine frozen, crust it in course salt and fresh course ground pepper. Wrap it in tinfoil and I cook it @ 250 degrees for 6 hours. It is GREAT!!!! Crusted with flavor and juice. It turns out med rare. Just wanted you to know.
I let roast rise to room temp on the counter. Slightly dampen the outside then roll in rock salt. Pat it on like a shell. Add coarse ground black pepper to shell. Place in oven at 450 degrees for 15 or so minutes. Turn oven down to 200 and roast til meat thermometer is at desired temp. Quicker and easier than browning in the pan. It browns in hot oven and salt seals in juices. To serve, break away salt shell.
Has anyone used the prime rib cooking specs on a steak? The prime rib turned out excellent. I was just wondering how a steak, say, 2 lb, would turn out.
This is actually an excellent way to prepare a steak if you're not doing it on a grill. Just sear both sides of the steak in some butter or oil - about 3 to 4 minutes each side. Slip it into a 200°F oven until done to degree you desire. Because it's not easy to get a probe thermometer to sit in the steak and produce accurate temperatures, I recommend using a fast thermometer, like the Thermapen, and measuring every few minutes (depending on how close you are to your target temperature). There will be minimal amount of carry over cooking, so you can take it out when it hits your mark. If the steak it too thin, then the high temperature sear might put you over your intended doneness, so watch out for that.
Thanks for your prompt reply on cooking steaks. GC
Just wanted to let you know that I tried your slow cooking method on a 3.75 lb Prime Rib Roast and it was incredible. I actually cooked it in a roasting pan on the BBQ. It was very easy and kept the oven free for the rest of the dinner. I am looking forward to trying this out with a much larger roast for company now.
Thanks for the great website.
I've done this recipe, and it's great. But, being particular about temperature, I do all my cooking using old William John Macquorn Rankine's scale. Just because I can.
I flipped to this thread because I am making a standing rib roast on the grill using a rotisserie this afternoon and needed to check on a couple of details. My post here is completely off topic, but being a metric-o-phile, is there is such a word, I had to respond. I've said before I detest the system of weights and measures we use in the US, and can't wait for a change, but I know we are going to be stuck with it for a long time. BUT, with regard to accuracy and precision in engineering and architecture, everyone should be reminded that the Empire State Building, the Golden Gate Bridge (among many other structures in the modern world) and going to the moon, were all done with a slide rule (what's that? say the kids), and three significant figure accuracy, not to mention a lot of know-how. Cooking is one of those things where know how (or knowing where to get the information) is what makes the difference between a cook that knocks out mediocre meals, and a cook, trained or not, that seeks out information that they need to know to produce a delicious meal that everyone will enjoy.
Thanks to everyone for this great thread!
I can't wait to try this method of cooking rib!
I was of course being facetious, tongue in cheek so to speak, about using the Rankine scale to cook with. I actually prefer to use the Romer or even the Reaumer scales, but my glass thermometers calibrated in those obscure units are to valuable to use for cooking. Even for a Standing Rib Roast! :P
Now the Reaumur scale is just as detestable to me as the Fahrenheit/Rankine scales. Where do these guys get their motivation to make these ridiculous scales? Lets here it for Celsius and Kelvin. Go metric!
I have to say I am VERY impressed that you have Reaumur scale thermometers. They are probably extremely valuable, at leasts to nuts like us.
I would like to ask, is it ok to age a defrost prime rib before cooking.
I wouldn't age a defrosted prime rib before cooking it. I don't anyone who has the facility to truly age a piece of beef at home. Besides, if I was going to take the time and go to the significant expense of preparing a prime rib/standing rib roast, and then take the credit or blame for its outcome, I would just purchase exactly what I wanted when I was ready to prepare and serve it.
Since I am not living in US, it is very hard to find unfrozen USDA Prime beef. The roast selling here is un-aged, frozen one, so I just want to find out is that any way I can improve it favour. Anyway, thanks for your comment.
[i:8fec73f8db]On August 14, 2006 at 09:26 PM, Michael Chu said...
I happened to have a view of the kitchen, over a counter,and watched as the chef took what appeared to be an already cooked cold roast,cut off a thick piece and that was all I could see. My meal came and the prime rib was as I had ordered it. Any ideas as to how it was heated back up?
Most restaurants that serve prime rib keep the cooked rib roast under heat lamps or in a special "oven" that maintains the temperature at around 120°F so it stays hot but doesn't rise in temperature.
Some restaurants will prepare several roasts of varying doneness while other restuarants will cook the roast at higher temperatures to get a larger area of medium vs. medium-rare vs. rare and will cut the roast at different points to serve depending on your request. This usually means the rare or medium-rare roasts are not as good as they could have been where a restuarant specifically prepared an entire roast for that target temperature.[/i:8fec73f8db]
[b:8fec73f8db]I've probably cooked a thousand standing rib roasts for restaurants across the country and I have always used very similar methods as this recipe. Lots of different rubs, but always prefer the low temp method. I've also added wine, different vegetables, and stocks.. but mostly to setup for the jus I make later. I've also managed to alter the natural flavor of the meat but don't think thats a good thing. To the point of why I am even posting... there is many techniques restaurants use to serve prime rib, but the most common from my experience is cooking the roast to rare and maintaining that temperature during service. Once the customer orders their desired temperature, its usually brought up to the desired temperature in a jus thats usually then served along side it.
This is the first forum I've read so far on this site, but I am very impressed and find it very informational.
Interesting reading all the comments about the various cooking times and methods. I do prefer the high heat at first then low heat, but may reverse that this year.
Anyways how far in advance can I buy a roast and not worry abut it spoiling or whatever?
That's hard to say. A lot depends on how it was stored before you got it.
Real Engineer's dont cook, they have their Conductors buy them food! Lol! Im a Locomotive Engineer and happened upon this website while attempting to cook a prime rib. If all works out, free rides for all on the Long Island Railroad. Keep it on the rails!
ref buying the roast in advance -
from my butcher I always see them bring it out in the vacuumed sealed "big cut" -
I typically specific amount by number of ribs - I would not recommend less than three ribs for this method.
then I do the home method of dry aging.
place on smallest platter/low rimmed pan I can fit, on a rack, covered with a cloth towel, bottom back of refrigerator.
rotate 180 degrees every 24 hrs; change towel as / if it becomes bloody/soiled.
allow to stand for five days. because the home fridge is not as well controlled (temp & humidity) as 'professional' dry aging,
max five days is recommended for safety.
the meat can lose up to 20% of it's weight - water evaporating.
trim any hard crusty spots, season with rub of choice, low temp (275'F) roasting.
results are fantastic - tender and very flavorful.
On the 18th on November Lowes had Oregon Scientific (Model AW131) wireless temperatute probes for ~$14.00 each. This is around $30.00 less than I found on-line. I am going to use it for our standing rib roast Thanksgiving dinner. Thanks for the recipe.
Please use a large muffin tin (holds 6) The flat style of doing yorkshire does not do it justice at all!!!
Let me add another data point here. I started with a 9.5 lbs standing rib roast, chuck end, 3 bones, and dry aged for 5 days at which point I had a 9 lb roast. I took it out of the refrigerator 1½ hours before I inserted the probe thermometer and put it in a 200F oven on convection roast cycle (I don’t know the difference, but I have convection bake one rack, convection bake multi-racks, convection roast, and convection dehydrate cycles, convection roast creates a very nice crust).
0:00 – removed from refrigerator
1:30 – insert probe thermometer (36F) and put in 200 F convection roast oven
2:00 – 38F
4:00 – 86F (at this point, my roast was going to be done too early so I reduced temp to 190F convection roast)
4:30 – 99F (I reduced again to 175 convection roast)
4:45 – 107F
5:30 – 121F
6:00 – 128F
6:15 – 130F
6:25 – 132F, removed from oven and allowed to rest
7:00 – 135F
7:25 – 136F, this is the highest temperature achieved, back in oven at 500F convection for crust development
7:40 – 136F, removed from oven for rest
8:10 – 136F, cut and served. A bit too done for my taste of medium rare.
Some notes of interest:
1) Taking the roast out of the refrigerator early to warm to room temperature achieved absolutely nothing. To get “near room temperature” would take far longer than a couple of hours.
2) At 200 F, my cook time is less than 30 minutes/lb to achieve desired doneness.
3) At 175F, my temperature carry-over was 4F.
4) The doneness was very uniform.
5) Before putting it in the oven, I rubbed with oil, 2 tsp. kosher salt, and 2 tsp. fresh ground black pepper, the crust was amazing.
6) Next time I get a loin end roast, cook at 175F, remove from oven at no higher internal temperature than 128F for rest prior to cooking at 500F to make the crust.
200'F is a bit more on the meat smoking scale than roasting - I'd suggest upping the oven temp to 275'F.
that low temp long heat soak also resulted in the "done thru and thru, and too much done, at that" result.
when you think about it, if you want outer layer crisp&crusty, to some depth of brown done, but inside medium rare - you can't let the whole chunk of meat come to a stable / steady state temperature. at that point, it's all done "the same"
convection vs. conventional: convection circulates the air more vigorously; with long roast time, not recommended. the whole purpose of convection is "make it happen faster" which is not what you set out to do.
Dilbert, it looks like Ken did a pretty good job at following the directions - In fact, I'd still recommend 200°F for the oven temp, but since he's using a conventional oven, you'll have to either disable the circulation or reduce the cooking time. Now that Ken's got a set of data points, his next attempt will probably be timed differently.
Evenly cooked is the point of this recipe. Pulling out at 130°F would give Ken as much meat as possible at medium-rare. I like forming the crust earlier with a sear in the pan or on a grill over high heat and then performing a slow roast to get as much of the interior at the desired temperature.
When I smoke, I use 175-200F. But there is not much use in smoking unless you are using wood fuel. I am not sure I would risk a standing rib roast to smoking, mostly because that is a pretty hefty investment to not turn out good. If someone esle smokes one, I would be happy to taste a sample...
Actually I was trying to achieve the maximum amount of medium rare, basically medium rare through and through with a crust on the outside - any other way than the lowest possible temperature wouldn't achieve this same result. Once you got past the depth of the crust, which was just on the ouside, you got some slightly more done in the next 1/4", and the remainder of the roast was very uniform - exactly as I had hoped. However very uniform 136F (132F removal temperature with 4F carry-over) was still more done than I like, apparently I prefer rarer than this (this was my first time cooking standing rib roast, although certainly not my first time eating prime rib). The results as to uniform doneness were as I had hoped and my process is not likely to change next time except that I will try with convection disabled and will remove the roast at a lower temperature.
I had never convection roasted this low before. In the past on smaller roasts and more conventional temperatures, I have found that convection roast cycle doesn't appreciably reduce cooking time so much as it really forms a nice outside crust. Perhaps my cooking times are reduced, but at relatively small amounts that fall into the point of being negligible? However with a much longer and lower temperature roast time the convection factor is perhaps no longer negligible (I could only verify this by cooking another standing rib roast without it - yum). I can certainly disable the convection fan, however there is something clearly more to convection than simply a fan as my oven has four different convection cycles.
This is a great site.
"ye olde kitchen oven" is subject to temperature striations - you've certainly heard the ye olde standard line "rotate the xxxx to ensure even cooking / browning / whatever"
[[something clearly more to convection]]
yes and no; and of course the ever popular "mebbe"
convection is simply forced air circulation attempting to put the entire oven volume "more closer to the set point"
there's slow air fan, fast air fan, separate heating element 'boosters' to heat the air while it's circulating, low booster heat, high booster heat, and of where from it sucks and whereto it blasts.
for 'exposed' items, drying - ala the crust formation - is more pronounced. convection cooking a roast in a covered pot will not dry it out. . . .
if you have a heat booster in the convection air stream, that can affect 'crust' as the air exiting the convection ports is higher than the set point.
the low temp is indeed suited to your aim for medium rare (xCrust) throughout. I misread your initial post - I actually prefer Crust+Medium+Rare outer to bone - and have found the high temps help create that gradient.
If you have guests that prefer their meat more well-done than others, I'd recommend the following tip that my sister-in-law told me (it's what they do in her restaurant):
1. Cook roast to medium rare (or rare if that's what you like)
2. Heat-up some au-jus in a large pot, keeping it at low heat ( you'll need enough to completely cover a carved piece of your roast)
3. Dip any piece you want cooked more into the au-jus and wait
I don't have cooking times, but it will only take a couple of minutes to change the done-ness "level".
It's also a good way to give everyone a nice warm piece since you can do a quick dip right before serving.
I just saw an Alton Brown special that recommends searing /after/ slow cooking... his claim is that doing it in that order will keep more juice in the meat. Sure enough, not much au jus was visible in his roasting pan...
Anyone try that method?
I am getting a 9-rib roast for christmas, and i am going to cut it at 5 ribs and have a 4 rib left over. I am cutting it like this to fit it in the oven. My question is, do i cook both of the rib roasts the same amount of time as if it were a whole 9 rib roast or do i cook them as if i were cooking a 5 rib roast? Thank you
YES I HAVE COOKED THE ROAST LIKE ALTON BROWN, ACTUALLY ITS THE ONLY WAY I EVER COOKED IT. I COOK IT @ 225 AND THEN THE LAST 30 MINS I TURN THE HEAT UP TO 350-400 DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE ROAST. IT HAS BEEN SOOOOOOO DELICIOUS ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It'll end up closer to the time it takes for a 4-5 rib roast than for a 9-rib roast due to the extra surface area on the two extra end pieces you are exposing. However, I've found that the total time for a 4-5 rib roast doesn't differ drastically from that of a 9-rib (which is what I've got in the oven right now).
thanks for the quick response and happy roasting!!!! Hopefully you are eating it as i speak, thats a wonderful thing!
"... USDA grade it recieved." REC-E-I-VED, not REC-I-E-VED...
Fixed. Messages like this can be e-mailed instead of going into comments.
Just wanted to post and let the world know that this is the way to do it. I will be making dinner this year for Christmas. This will be the third time using this page for guidance. Every time I make this roast it has come out perfect and my guests continue to rave about how tasty it is. Cheers for providing a valuable service. Thank you very much.
I am having 10 people for dinner on Christmas. First time preparing a prime rib... Question. We'd like to use our rotisseri, how to I calculate time. Biggest problem... half of my quests like well done... the other half med rare. Any suggestions on pleasing both. Should I do 2 separate small roasts.. and adjust cooking time for both or????
DEFINITELY do two smaller roasts. Start them both at the same time, take the medium rare out when it is done, and let the well done continue to cook. When the medium rare is half done, just rotate the roasts in the oven so they both get even heating. Each group will think you did a good job.
There is no way you will get roughly equal amounts of meat that are half medium rare and half well done.
I have a 15 pound boneless rib roast. It's close 22 inches long with a diameter of 8 inches or so. Does the 45 minute guideline still apply if I follow the recipe as outlined at the beginning of this blog? That calculates to 11.25 hours in the oven after browning? is that right? just seems like a long time for anything to be in the oven. Also, does the fact that there are no bones in it affect the cooking time? Thank you!
I've got a 13.8lb standing rib roast dry aging in the oven, ala Alton Brown.
I was planning on doing his recipe of cooking at 200 degrees, (he said about 4 hours for a 10lb roast to get to an internal temp of 118deg, expecting 10-12 degrees of carry over heat), then firing up the oven to 500 to form a crust.
(BTW Im a finance guy so I did this in spreadsheets...)
Used Alton's plan to extrapolate my own:
The show is also available on YouTube:
118 Degrees Internal Temp Reached
10 lb roast
24 Minutes Per lb
10-12 Deg Carry Over to get to 130deg medium rare
Therefore, to get a 10lb roast to an internal temp of 126, I need
[1+((126-118)/118)] x 240 Minutes = 256 Minutes, therefore I expect to need (25.6 min x 14 lbs) =358 minutes (6 Hrs) Roasting to reach 126 Degrees, which I want to carry over into the low range of medium (138deg) as follows:
Final Temps: Midpoint:
Rare 120 to 127 123.5
Medium Rare 128 to 135 131.5
Medium 136 to 146 140.5
So the big variables here, that conflict with the recipe on Cooking for Engineers, are -
1) Should I expect 10degrees of carry over heat?
2) What do you think this medium will look like? I want pink throughout, but not bloody.
3)45 Minutes per pound at 200??? My math gets me close to 26.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on my approach- it basically assumes linear relationships, since I know nothing about thermodynamics, it is all I had to work with.
If you look back a few posts I had a ? similar to yours, it was about the 9 rib roast which is going to be about 20lbs, anyway from hearing from others I hear that the cooking time beetween a 4-5 rib roast and a nine rib roast isnt all that different. I recently cooked a 4 ribber and it took about 4 hours if i remember correctly. I can positively tell you from my experience that 11 hours is way way to long. It should take around 4-6. do yourself a large favor go to walmart and get yourself a digital oven thermometer that runs into the oven and into the meat, you can leave the display out on the counter and it will beep at your temperature. If you are cooking it and people start getting antsy because its taking a while just crank the heat up for the last hour or so and it will still come out delicious. and I also would rather make people wait a little longer to have it hot and fresh than have it done to early!!!!! hope i ahve helped you out!
I dont agree with those temperatures. i get my steak to about 135 then take it out of the oven and it is still mighty red, not pink at all, I dont like raw meat, I guess its all preference.
Ps make sure your oven is clean before cooking!!!!!!!
Ha, this is true - I would hate to think of it getting soggy waiting for people to sit down to eat. Knowing my type of crowd though, if we have to wait an extra hour or two, we'll be too drunk to eat.
I'm going to split the difference and go for 5 hours- I'll start roasting around 12.
I have the digital thermometer, I'm just concerned that if I pull it kind of early, I won't get enough carry heat increase to let it keep cooking.
Alton says there was 10deg of carryover on his roast - but the other posters here saw much less - even at the same 200 degree roasting temperature.
5 hours is probably a decent estimate - my last roast was a 15 pound boneless and at 225F it was going to finish in 4 hours. I had to drop the temperature to 170F to slow down the cooking (and then picked it up to 250 about an hour before I needed it done) so it would finish at the right time.
I had about 3 degrees carryover during the 50 minute rest. I carved prime rib for the next 45 minutes and there was still enough warmth in the last piece that I served.
listen to the others in here! When i take it out of the oven i never get that carryover either. I eat the meat medium rare, and i pull it out around 140-145 and the meat is still very red. I think 135 would be way too early. who wants purple meat?!! ps i cook at 225,
So when you pull the roast with an internal temp of 140-145, it is still very red? Can you describe the redness a bit better? all of the charts Ive seen would put a 145 degree roast firmly in the medium zone.
I am pretty put off by the discrepencies in the amount of carry over heat people say to expect. I don't want to overcook this thing.
keep in mind:
not all thermometers are accurate
not all cooks use accurate technique
I have an old metal dial type from my aunt. it reads 12F' different than these newfangled 'lectronic thingies. perfectly good thermometer, tho, eh?
bone in / boneless makes a big difference in the amount of carry over I have seen. bones seem to be a heat sink . . .
sticking the thermometer so far as to hit the bone will produce a false reading. to be safe, I stick it in to where I _think_ is right, then I move in an inch both ways to make sure I'm not off by 50 degrees.
the higher the roasting temperature, the more carry over you get because (a) the overall time is shorter - some advice is roasting at 350'F
(b) there is less time for the higher temp to penetrate all the way through
if you pull the roast, allow it to cool, then stick in back in at 500'F to crust it, you'll get little to no "carry over" from the crusting bit.
Michael brought in "the voice of experience" - start your roast, check the temp and the time, raise/lower the temp based on how much time is left and the temp reached.
I start 4-5 ribs, bone in, at 235'F - I find the fat renders off a bit better with more than 200'F.
using the low temp long roast time approach I've never seen 10F' carryover. I wouldn't count on anything more than 4 or 5 F'
did you see the trick posted: keep a shallow pan of simmering broth handy - if you run out of "not done enough" slice it and put the slice in for a few laps in the broth pool . . .
oh, do NOT use the microwave to nuke it more done; this stuff is much too expensive for use on shoes.
I do hope your comment about dry aging the roast in the oven was a typo - the fridge is a better spot . . . .
For absolute accuracy and precision, I like my Thermapen. They come with a serial number and the name of the inspector/calibration person when you buy it. You can use it to calibrate your other thermometers by placing them in a pot of water and seeing how they all register. I calibrated my Polder oven probe thermometer with it, and it was within a degree or two. DON'T use a thermapen to repeatedly check your prime rib. The holes you poke in it will drain out all the juice. You can also use a fever thermometer and calibrate your cooking thermometer--at least to the 100F/body temperature range, which should be close enough for cooking beef in the rare/medium range. At least you'll eliminate those thermometers that are way off.
Only problem I have with "the voice of experience" is that if the roast is done an hour or more later, won't it keep cooking if I stick it back in the oven? I have a brand new probe thermometer and oven thermometer, I'm counting on them. I'm thinking I may do 235 deg though, because I like the idea of rendering the fat. I'm used to cooking ribeye steaks by searing and throwing in them into a hot oven (500deg) for 2 minutes on each side.
Yep, aging in the fridge, not the oven, ha, I didnt notice that before.
so I guess I'll take the roast out of the oven when I wake up in the morning, let it sit in it's plastic aging box til it gets closer to room temp, and start at 235deg for 5 hours around Noon.
I'll adjust my calcs for 5 degrees of carry over cooking, and still try to land on the low range of medium. (135-138).
>> if the roast is done an hour or more later, won't it keep cooking if I stick it back in the oven?
I'm not following the thought here . . .
starting at room temp I suspect 5 hours is going to be a bit on the long side - but that's better than the short side because if you graph out time vs temp, assuming it is reasonably linear (works at low temp roasting) you can see at mid-time-point how it's doing and adjust.
forward thinking / planning is required - you can't wait until 45 minutes before sitting down to discover the roast internal temp is 100'F and jack up the temp to 500'
if the roast finishes early - take it out to stand, cover with foil & "insulation" i.e. towel/etc - it will stay warm for a good 30 minutes.
first time I did one I read some cookbook and started roasting at 350' -
checked the temp and the roast was _way_ ahead of schedule - I simply turned off the oven, left the roast in the oven - started again after 90 minutes.
I find the cooking times based on weight to be unreliable with a long piece of meat like a rib roast. Whether you are cooking a 3-rib roast or a 7-rib roast, the thickness is the same. Sure, you have cooking from the ends, but most of the heat has to penetrate through the sides. So, I don't see much difference in cooking time related to "length" of the prime rib.
I am doing a 12 lb. boneless rib roast on Christmas, using the Alton Brown slow roast method (start low, pull out at 120 degrees, rest for 30 minutes, heat oven to 500 degrees, put meat back in to sear for about 10 minutes). I'm figuring on about four hours to get to 120, a half-hour to rest, ten minutes to sear, 10 minutes to rest and 10 minutes to cut, totaling five hours.
I am thinking about starting an hour earlier and leave time to turn the heat off and let it oven rest, but the lowest my oven goes is 170 degrees. I can't turn it down to 120-130 degrees. Any thoughts?
Your oven, previously at 500 for the sear won't go down to 120-130 for quite a while anyway, so I wouldn't use that. You could place it on a pan and keep the roast in a picnic type cooler which will keep the heat of the roast in.
:lol: Do I need to cover this with a lid or foil?
I have a 10.5 lb bone in roast. I am dry aging it using the towel fridge method. I will be cooking it in a weber grill with rotiserie at about 200. How long do I need to plan on cooking it. I am going to use Alton Browns method of finishing at high temp for the crust. I am going to use a probe thermometer, but cannot monitor on the outside of the grill because fo the rotiserie. Please help!
Hi Terry, I dont know what the situation looks like but i would get a plain meat thermometer and stick it in the meat and tie it to the meat with some butchers twine,then it should be able to spin and get the temperature at the same time, I dont know how but improvise!!
I have a dilemma - 18lbs prime rib, will pan sear, season, set oven to 200.
Will stick 2 thermometers - analog and digital oven - want to get roast to medium 145 internal temp.
At 45 minutes per pound for an 18lbs roast to get to 145 - looking at 14 hours -- many have commented that this is TOO long.
Can others who have roasted large roast in and around the 18lbs please comment on time? Is 14 hours TOO long or should I be looking in and around half that time to get to a MEDIUM roast???
That is my plan, but my problem is I need a ballpark done time to start opening the lid to check the temp. Don't want to have to open a lot because of heat loss. Does 4 hours sound about right??
here are several ROT's:
large roast + 10-11 lbs cut in half, distance to oven walls makes a difference.
use low/slow method, 200 F, until thermo reads 10 F, under target.
let rest foil covered until internal temp stops rising, no matter how long it takes.
remove thermo, plug thermo hole with clean golf tee.
set oven at max temp. brown to desired crustiness.
rest covered loosely with foil 10-15 minutes minimum.
Would like to see discussion based on total energy expended, BTU's per hour
I am most certainly not an engineer. My Dad was, however, an Electrical Engineer at KSC for many years on the Shuttle Support Team. Though we often laughed at his inability to program the VCR (my son did it for him) we always respected him for his unquestioned brilliance. I love the way you put together the recipes and know that he would be proud.
We will dedicate this Christmas Standing Rib Roast to him and all those other slide rule engineers of the past and present.
what is the difference between a beef rib club roast and a standard rib roast - how do I cook it?? time and temp?
Any one know about cooking a pork shoulder roast?? time? temp?
HELP!!! I have a 12-bone standing rib roast that will barely fit into my oven. What do I do now? I know to bring it to room temperature and cook to approx 130F but, approximately how long will it take for this monster??? Thanks for any help.
<< 12-bone standing rib roast
cut it in half and figure on 4-5 hrs at 200 - 235'F
marketing names are always fascinating
for the club rib roast
:P I have made several prime ribs using the slow roasting method described in this recipe and the 45 minutes per lb, always renders a perfect roast. My oven tends to run cool so I cook it at 215 degrees. I also make a crust of diced onion, garlic, salt and coarse ground black pepper. I season the roast with this and try to let it sit on the counter and come to close to room temperature with the seasoning coating on it, this can take up to a few hours depending on the size of the cut of beef. Another better seasoning crust is made with Regas seasoning for those of you in the Knoxville, Tn Area. Just coat sit and cook for a mouth watering dinner. I also like to add whole mushrooms to the baking dish when it has about an hour left to cook.
I've read every post and here's what I've decided:
I'm about to start my 10 pounder
2 hours at room temperature then
225 degress until 130 for med with 5 degree carryover
I'm expecting 25 min per pound.
I just can't decide, sear first or last?
sear at end.
you'll get some crusting during "whatever" roasting method you choose -
searing at end allows for adjustments to potentially non-anticipated results. . . .
Just cooked a 16 lb roast this morning. Left roast at room temperature for five hours. Scheduled to cook from 4AM til 930 AM @ 200 Degrees F....Checked roast @ 8AM and found it was 125 Degrees F. I removed roast from the oven and "finished" from 8AM til 11AM. @ about 9AM it was 136 Degrees F. We dined at noon and the roast was a perfect 122 Degrees F. Everyone absolutely LOVED the roast!!!!Thanks for all the suggestions. ;)
I just cooked a 6 Rib - 11lb Prime Rib w/Dry Rub Herbs.
After looking at all the great post above I finally did the following.
(NOTE:) Having gotten up late, I put the roast in the oven w/o allowing any time to set on the counter. The roast was 40 deg F when I placed it in the oven.
I preheated the oven to 450 deg F, but the second I place the roast in I dropped the temp to 200 def F, this seared the rub on very nicely. After 2 hours time, I raised the temp to 225 deg F (An above poster said they had better luck removing the fat at this temp). At 4 hours time, I had a core Temp of 115 deg F, and by the end of the 5th hour it was at 125 deg F.
I removed it from the oven, seperated the Roast from the Ribs and placed it on a platter to allow it to finish and collect some juices, (Be sure to cover roast in Foil). I only saw about a 4 deg rise in the core temp. The Meat was a perfect Medium Rare, even the endcaps were no more than Medium
For the Au Jus I took a 14oz can of Beef Broth, and and boiled off reminants from pan, added Salt, Black Pepper, and Red Pepper (optional) to taste.
I thank all the above Poster's for your great suggestion, Information, and Ideas.
Okay, folks. I'm not an engineer - yet. I'm a senior on a PhD path. Anyway, my Texas Smoker credentials are more relevant here than my formal education. That being said I'd like to add my two cents to the discussion, especially since it looks like some folks have inquired as to the efficacy of barbecueing a rib roast.
For Christmas Eve this year (yesterday) I cooked a 16 lb boneless rib roast. I bought it cryovac'd at Costco a week early and left it to wet age in it's own juices in the meat drawer of my fridge at 39 degrees Farenheit. I find that's a much safer way to age and it doesn't stink up your fridge.
At 9:30 AM I removed the roast from the fridge and washed it thoroughly, then left it uncovered in a cold oven to drip and warm. At 10:30AM I removed the roast from the oven, drained the juices and water, and proceeded to dress it. I rubbed a light coating of yellow mustard on the oustide, then canola oil, and finally a coating of kosher salt, lots of freshly cracked black pepper, and a tiny bit of onion powder. Then I placed it back in the oven to further warm (oven still OFF).
At 11:00 AM I started the fire in the smoker (custom smoker with offset firebox). I used approximately 10lb of Kingsford charcoal (NOT the mesquite kind) for early even high heat, and added large chunks of Hickory wood for smoke and flavor. After cleaning the grill surface and allowing the pit to heat evenly, I place the rib roast on the pit at 11:30 AM. I added more hickory chunks and allowed the roast to sit for 30 minutes - fat side down - while the temperature slowly varied from an initial temp of 400 down to 220 F. At that point I simply rotated the roast every 30-35 minutes and tried to keep a temp of 220-250. I know my pit fairly well so the temp stayed a fairly consistent 235 (1 inch above grill surface). You can also place a thermometer in the smoke stream of the pit being careful to not let it touch anything and verify the exit temp that way, though it will be a bit cooler than the internal temp of the pit. Anyway, I cooked the roast this way until 4:30PM, rotating it 180 degrees verically, but never horizontally. I then raised the temp of the pit by placing mesquite logs over the coals to bring the temp back up to roughly 450 degrees for 20 minutes (internal temp of 128 on the end furthest from the heat, 132 on the end furthest from the heat). At 4:50 I removed the roast to a disposable roasting pan, tented it, and left it to rest on my stovetop.
It lost less than a cup of juice in the pan over the next 30 minutes and final temps were 135 on one end and 140 on the other. The outer crust was phenomenal and the meat was extremely tender and beautifully pink on one end and slightly less so on the other. I did this because some of my guests prefer their meat slightly more "done" than others. If I wanted a more uniformly cooked roast I would simply rotate the meat vertically AND horizontally when smoking it.
To be fair, this is more barbecueing than smoking due to the temps, but it turns out so great that none of my guests complained.
Well, here's hoping some of you try smoking a rib roast. It's a flavor you simply cannot achieve in an oven - conventional OR convection. Oh, and don't fret over rib roasts so much, folks. It's pretty darn hard to mess it up as long as you don't overcook it! If you pull it out too early and it's still a bloody mess just fire up the grill, slap some butter on and make the most delicious ribeye steaks your guests have ever had!
I had a 9 lb roast from Safeway. I miscalcuated the time - I kept thinking it would take 4.5 hours at 200 deg. I was planning on getting it the oven at 12:30, which would be ready for dinner at 6pm.
I took the roast out of the fridge at about 10:30am. At 11am I realized I miscalculated the time, that 45min per pound is 6.75hrs, not 4.5. Dumb.
I preheated the oven to 450 deg. Put the roast in at 11:15, immediately turned it down to 250 deg. At 1:40pm, the temp was 90 deg. At 3:15pm, the roast was done - 130 deg.
I tented the roast and we ended up eating at 5pm. It was near perfect, and I got rave reviews from family.
For Christmas we only had 4 people, so I did a 4-lb roast. I undid the strings, cut off the bone, and seared it for a few minutes directly over the coals in my little Weber. Then I put it in my smoker, over a pan of water, and set the smoker on the Weber right over the coals, using a Taylor meat thermometer with a cable probe to keep track of the temp. I took it off in 1 hr 15 minutes at 115° F, let it rise to 125°, and it was just perfect: medium rare toward the edges and blood rare in the middle. We all thought it was yummy!
yup - I had a four rib ca. ten pounder
put it in at 235'F
at +2 hours center was about 95'F - increased oven temp to 250'F
at +3 hours center was about 110'F - increased oven temp to 265'F
removed at +4 hours; 125'F center temp
rested 20 minutes.
medium outer muscle group.
clear juice, red, hot rare at the bone.
all gone at +4.4 hours.
the spaetzle should last so long . . .
How many people did your 10 lbs roast feed, and were the rib bones left on it? Sounds great.
that from cynicalb_repost was 2005 - might not hear anything . . .
but anyway, I did a ten pounder off the small end, bone in, four ribs.
the butcher left a bit more fat than I would have preferred (weight wise) - however it went for six with a extra thick slice leftover. no one went for a second slice - so depending on the appetite sizes involved you could get less.
Since I benefited from others experiences, thought I would add my own:
10 lb prime rib
1 hr at room temp
preheat to 450 deg
lower to 200 when roast is inserted.
4.5hr 120, temp increase to 220.
5.5hr 135, removed, start resting.
(33 minutes per pound)
30 minute rest.
I would call it ... med-well side of medium. More than I hoped, but edible at least, which is good for me :)
quite a bit of juice (~1 cup) "leaked" out during slicing. Hard to quantify, but easily a cup. I suspect a long rest would have helped there.
Thanks Eddie for the feedback on your using a smoker for your standing rib roast. I can control my smoker pretty well, but as you know this only comes from experience and using wood isn't quite as forgiving as using natural gas or electricity. Based on your comments, I will definitely try smoking a standing rib roast next time.
Okay, okay - I already found out I blew it by purchasing a 2.05# prime rib (don't laugh - it's for my husband and ME, and we're not big eaters!). I'm sure the butcher got his laugh for the day when he sold it to me. But...the deed is done and I need to cook it -- medium rare. I've read comments to treat it like a big steak - how so? Is there any way I can cook this and end up with a lovely juicy red piece of meat. Help - this is our New Year's dinner.
Hi Moo -
I suspect not all is lost. the key is to roast it at a low temperature so the outside doesn't go crispy critter before the inside gets warm.
rub down with your favorite spices/seasonings - coarse salt & fresh coarsely cracked pepper at a minimum.
roast at 225'F - probably will not take more than 90 minutes if the oven if preheated and the roast is short of frozen.
do you have a thermometer to follow the interior temp? go for 135'F then pull it, cover and rest for 10-15 minutes.
thanks, dilbert. i'll try it - i really appreciate the advice and yes, i do have a thermometer.
Don't worry, you can still save face. I'm sure the butcher thought you were having it as a large juicy steak. :)
On a ribeye (steak) rib roast that size, probably one good sized rib width, I would pull it at 130 absolute tops and let it rest or else it will be medium by the time you eat it. Temperature is going to be critical because it is a small roast. Don't overshoot your temp.
Happy New Year!
Its time for us on the east coast to get ready to party!
I cooked a 16.25 lb standing rib roast last night, starting at 500 degrees, which I immediately reduced to 200 after depositing the Main Guest, which had been coated in olive oil and Montreal Steak Seasoning.
The roast had been out of the refrigerator for two hours before hitting the oven. Internal temperature 15 minutes after going in the oven was 44 degrees. It took 6 hours and 10 minutes to get to 128 at which time I pulled it. It continued to cook, reaching 133 after 35 minutes. I couldn't wait any longer so I sliced it then. It was a perfect medium-rare throughout, right out to the edges, and gave up practically no juice or fat in the cooking or at slicing, and was extremely tender and juicy.
The best roast I ever cooked, and my guests were amazed at how good it tasted. Several said it surpassed the best restaurant prime rib they had ever eaten. Ten of them went through more than half of it, less the bones, for which I have plans today.
Thanks very much to all the people who advised of their experiences here. All were very helpful, and I hope this is helpful to someone, too.
Here's the breakdown on my cook time.
Started my 9# roast after preheating at 200*F and continue cooking at 200*F.
At 6:45pm the roast looked a bit pale @ 125*F (internal temp) so I ramped it up to 450*F for 15 minutes.
Backed down temp to 200*F (internal temp was about 127*F)
Removed from oven at 130*F.
After sitting for about ~15 minutes internal temp was at 134*F.
End cuts were about med
Rest of the cuts were about med rare. :) Very tasty & juicy prime rib! Thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Just wanted to share my results.
My roast was just over 5lbs and I used a 200' oven but I would not recommend basing your cooking time on 45mins/pound. I put mine in the oven based on that figure and it hit the target temp of 118' about an hour early. It took 2hrs and 20mins to hit 118' at which point I removed the roast from the oven, covered it with foil and let it rest a bit while I let the oven come up to 500'. Put the roast back in to brown for only about 10mins (this made me kind of nervous as the temp had already climbed perilously close to 128' for medium rare). I wanted my roast to be just below medium rare as I knew I'd be reheating the leftovers and would much rather it be slighly undercooked than over. Anyway, after browning it for about 10mins in the 500' oven I took it out and let it rest for about 30mins. Perfect (aside from being done about an hour early). Yum!
As seen in the Neiman Marcus catalog.
I am thinking ...
beef broth made from roasting drippings,
canned beef broth + canned chicken broth or water to create soup volume,
Add 4 T flour combined with 2-3 T butter to thicken,
Cook on Med heat until thickened
Add lots of sauteed mushrooms
Add carmelized onions
heavy cream or sour cream at end of cooking chowder
Add cubed leftover prime rib, just to warm meat up
What do YOU think Mr. Chu ?
Smoothies suck. Steaks rock.
Im making a 15# roast, boneless, for easter. tried your method with a standing rib roast and had to up the time to 51 min per pound. any other ideas as this way would take close to 13 hours to cook, me thinks. Help! thanks in advance!
Why would this take 13 hours to cook? You can't estimate time by weight since surface area increases as well when you roast gets bigger and roasts basically only get longer, not uniformly bigger. My guess is it won't take longer than 6-7 hours.
Has anyone tried any rotisserie rib? I have a four rib (8 lb) that I am doing tomorrow in the rotisserie. I am just curious on the comparison between the classic oven variations and the rotisserie?
Real engineer here. (Eagle Group, food service equipment manufacturer)
I have engineered a Cook And Hold cabinet (CH6000) and the owner of our company wanted me to show some out of town sales reps how good it will cook prime rib. As we wanted to be sure it was done in plenty of time, and wanted to cook it overnight, we looked on the net for slow cooking instructions. I read enough of the postings to see that some people said it would take less and others said it would take all 45 minutes. It was a 14lb 7.4oz roast,200˚F at 45 minutes a pound would put it done 10 hours and 51 minutes. We put it in at 10:00pm (yep, made a special trip back to work to get the roast in the cabinet) figuring that it would be done around 9:00.
This may be a good time to fill in everyone about the cabinet. It is a convection "oven" that is plumbed directly into a water source to keep the humidity level up (moist meat). Digital controls, temperature probe, indefinite holding at another specified temperature...
Well, when we got here at 6:30am, it was already in hold mode. The clock indicated that it was done cooking around 3:00am. I stuck in a regular meat thermometer and the core temperature was 128˚F. When I finally cut the roast at 11:50 IT WAS BEAUTIFUL!!! From the first slice, it was as pink as a rare meat eater would want it to be cooked. Every slice was the same way. The roast was just as tender as it could be... So, my cooking time was about 21 minutes a pound, but the temperature probe did its job and put it into a hold temperature of 130˚F (instead of a Polder beeping at me)
Slow cooking is the way to cook prime rib!!! Thank you very much!!!
I've written a few articles on prime rib cooking since I posted this one to Cooking For Engineers, so I can't remember if I've mentioned it before on CFE (because I know I've discussed it elsewhere):
Cooking time for prime rib cannot be calculated by X minutes per pound.
I'll try to put together a newer, more up-to-date prime rib article.
hi michael, great website you have here. i love the recipes and so does my family. my mother's bringing home a 2 kilo rib roast today, and i'd just like to clarify: when tying the roast, i tie it around, once at each end, between the ribs? um, sort of like a wrapped candy that's tied at the ends?
once again, compliments on this site. so far i've made the chocolate truffles, mushroom soup, chicken pot pie, pancakes, lamb chops, all to great success. and my mother loves your tiramisu recipe.
by the way, on the recipe card, you convert 200 F to 90 F; i'm sure you mean 90 deg C.
You only need to tie this roast if you've cut off the bones already (some butchers do it to make it easier to serve later - but if they do, they usually tie them back on for you). If that's the case, you just tie the roast between the ribs - no need for the other direction. If the ribs are intact, no need to tie this roast at all.
And this is why I love the web - I can fix typos discovered years later! I've actually updated it to 95 degrees C. Thanks for catching that!
I've never cooked a prime rib before. I'm doing an 11 lb. roast for Thanksgiving. There's no mention of whether to cover the roast or not--what is your preference? Also, at 200 degrees x 11 lbs. I will be cooking the roast for 8 hrs???? Can that be right? Thanks for the help!
slow cooking time varies a bit -
items that cause this:
slight/moderate/wild oven actual temps for the indicated setting
amount of moisture in the roast (ie fresh vs dry aged)
bone to meat mass ratio
to answer your question, can it really take 8 hours? at 200'F, yes.
convection oven add more variability - convection is not assumed in this slow cook method.
it is absolutely essential to use a thermometer and check the internal temps as you go along. if it's going too fast you have adequate notice to turn the oven down/off in getting the guests and the food ready at the same time.
if you have the option to get a dry aged roast from a good butcher, go for it. stuff in the supermarkets is not dry aged; you can do this at home - 3 days makes a difference, 5 days is max. in the home refrig.
On January 02, 2008 I made a 9# roast and for Thanksgiving I we made a slightly smaller one at 7#. This one came out perfect again. YUM!
Here's the break down for 7# roast.
Rub- fresh garlic/rosemary and course sea salt/black pepper and garlic salt
Standing temp 46*F
Preheat 200*F and continue cooking at 200*F
9:30am Enters oven at 200*F
12:00pm (internal temp - 107*F)
12:45pm (internal temp - 125*F Set temp to 450*F)
1:10pm Exit oven (internal temp - 130*F)
Wrap in foil
1:20PM Removed foil when internal temp was 135*F and let sit to 140*F before carving.
1:30pm Late lunch! :) Perfect medium-medium rare cuts. Delicious!
Thanks to everyone for all these great tips ... After reading, I made my first ever prime roast (for Thanksgiving) and it was fork tender ... Perhaps the best I've eaten anywhere! I use a Big Green Egg, which helps make me look much more talented than I actually am :-) But the tips posted here undoubtedly saved my bacon! Thanks to all!
I am preparing for the first time Christmas eve dinner for my family at my house a delicious or I hope boneless prime rib dinner. It's approximately 6 pounds and I was wondering if because it's boneless the cooking method needs to be modified from the instructions listed above. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Happy Holidays
being boneless it will cook a bit quicker - use a thermometer - essential to judge how fast it's cooking.
enjoy! prime rib is a seriously simple thing to do - season, roast. the entire key is use of the thermometer. you can adjust the oven temp as you go along to ensure it's ready when you want.
I have a nice 7 pounder going into the oven today... I know searing at the beginning will lock in the juices, however, what if I seared it at the end also to get that perfect crust?
So what if I Sear at 450 at the beginning for 10 mins
then again at the end of the cook (when it reaches 128) for another 10 mins at 450?
Then let stand till roast hits 135.. What does everyone think?
Is it better to sear the roast at 500 first and then lower to ~200 or roast until almost ready to pull and then go to high heat
just to add to Tim's confusion,,,,
"searing to retain juices" - okay, #1, the whole theory is debatable, but past that #2 the implied theory applies to high heat grilling & roasting.
a prime rib roast will contract and not bleed all over the floor/pan - even at relatively low temps - without an initial "searing"
my approach is to cook it low and slow. when I hit 128'F (rare) then I decide whether it needs a high heat blast for a pretty crunchy crust, and judge the carry over cooking from that point.
Ok Thanks Dilbert,
i think I will take the approach of "wait and see" when it hits 128..
I DO however like my Prime Rib with a nice crust, I'll just blast it at the end if it is not to my liking...
I cant see it forming a crust at 200 F
I want to sear at 500 before cooking at 200. How long should I sear at 500.
It will be a 5 rib roast.
>>>cant see it forming a crust at 200 F
absolutely correct. it does not. but the low temps will bring lots of sugar and proteins to the surface that will make a nice crust.
I use the same low slow / then make pretty approach for chicken & turkey as well. it's way more easier to "apply" prettiness at the end than to correctly judge exactly the time and exactly the temp needed to create a chronologically simultaneous "meat done" and "meat pretty" event.
you can bake a chicken at 275 without a three minute situation of "it's done" to "it's burnt" - at that temp it stays nice and juicy even if you go get yerself lost for 20 minutes.
what's it take... 10-20 minutes at 500'F to make the skin crisp crunchy brown & purdy? much more fail safe approach, imho.
for prime rib, it's easy to "take what you got at <temp rare/med>" and turn that into "the most magnificent crust ever seen" than to undo the prior overguesstimated seared and now dried out miserable crusting and recreate something better.
one year I crispied / browned the turkey with a propane torch. absolutely beautiful, marvelous crunch to the skin, inside juicy and tender.
I call it the "roast not, bake&blast" method
I have a 7 bone, 19.5 lb rib roast....please give me some help with what temperature would be best for such a large roast and how long will it take? I don't want to overcook this thing! I'm shooting for it to be medium. Would it be easier to cut it in half?
Don't confuse "prime rib" with "USDA Prime." The phrase "prime rib" comes from the fact that the full, untrimmed rib roast is one of the seven primal cuts that a butcher divides a side of beef into, before cutting them into smaller portions. Other primal cuts are the chuck, brisket, loin, etc...
I did an entire rib roast weighing about 20 pounds for my 30th birthday last year and it took about 6 hours at 200F. The thing is, everyone's results are going to vary and there's no way to tell how long it's going to take for your cut in your oven - it's all going to be gross estimates and 10-20% off on a small steak is a few minutes, but on a roast this size it can be as much as an hour off.
You need to get a probe thermometer and take readings every half hour. When I do a roast that large, I actually plot the readings in a spreadsheet to see what the rate and estimated time when it will reach my target. I then adjust the temperature accordingly. Just start early and keep an eye on the internal temperature and you'll be fine.
First of all I am an engineer.
I have used a similar method of roasting a rib roast, but I do it in a ceramic BBQ (Kamado #7 --see Kamado.com). The advantage of using a ceramic BBQ is that it keeps the heat in. The temperature adjustment is by controlling the amount of air (a bottom & top vent). I use hardwood charcoal (oak, hickory etc).
I prepare the roast by rubbing it with olive oil, cracked pepper and kosher salt.
I start by letting the BBQ heat up wide open (500+ degree F), then I put in the rib roast on the grill rib side down and let it brown for about 5 minutes. I then shut the dampers for about 15 to 20 minutes, until the temperature is about 350 degrees, then I adjust the vents to what experience has shown to will result in a "steady" temperature of 300 degrees or less. After about an hour, I insert a meat thermometer and let the roast reach a temperature of 135 degrees. Let it rest for 20 minutes and serve.
The cooking times are consistent with what other posters have stated. I have always had good results. The wood charcoal gives it a very mild smoky taste and there is a nice flavorful crust on the outside.
I love this 200 degree method of low and slow. I have pan seared first with excellent results and I have not seared also with excellent results. I only sear about a minute on each side max. Let your roast sit on the counter a couple hours to get closer to room temp, don't put a roast right into the oven from the fridge and searing will not bring up the core temp. I have never done the 500 degree start then turn down the temp method so no tips there. Polder digital probe thermometer is my preferred choice - shove it in the meat and leave it there, the cord allows you to attach the unit to the front of the oven with a magnet so you can watch the temp rise without screwing around with the roast...I do not recommend constantly opening the door and jabbing the heck out of your roast over and over to check for doneness but you gotta do what you gotta do if you dont have a thermometer that stays in the whole time. Letting it stand 15 or so minutes once done is vital, I mean really vital. Do not cover your roast while it cooks. My oven runs 40-45 minutes per pound but I would suggest an initial safety check at 25-30 minutes per pound to be sure - rather have to cook it more then end up with pot roast. Oven roasting bags and prime rib no not mix so resist any temptation to use one.
Okay so here I am visiting from out of town and I have been handed a 12.49 lb roast to cook. I have never cooked one of these things before and I certainly don't want to ruin it for 17 people!! I don't want to overcook it1! Help me out. Currently it's sitting on the countertop waiting for some action. Rose
hopefully you have a meat thermometer - absolutely essential to judge "it's done!" I would make a special trip to the store if none is available.
other than that - rub in a salt pepper mix - add some paprika for color if you'd like - not covered, low sided pan, rack if you got one, roast away.
the low&slow method of this thread fame is good at keeping max moisture / juice in the meat. if you're short on time you can cook it faster ie at higher roasting temp but the thermometer is critical to ensure it does not go overdone.
check after the first 90-120 minutes and then more frequently as you get closer to finished temp - 130 for rare - there is an effect called carry over where the roast continues to cook even after you pull it from the oven.
forget not to let it rest for 15-20 minutes...veddy important!
This is a great way to cook beef or lamb. I don't bother to sear it, and I don't bother to add salt. Try it without salt, it's still delicious and much better for you, or much less bad for you! Be patient. 200 degrees seems almost impossible, but it really does work. 45 minutes per pound is about right, but ovens do vary. Just leave enough time before you plan to eat to have the roast done and enough time to let it sit (in a warm place) while you make the Yorkshire Pudding. With the latter, I mix it up in a blender really early in the day, leave it in the blender, and give it a whirl every now and then. Letting the ingredients sit makes them puff up more. Also having them room temperature when you pour them into the hot pan helps with the puffing.
I dispense with the meat thermometer because I can tell by poking with a fork or my index finger how firm and thus how cooked the meat is. Because this cooking method results in such evenly cooked meat, I have found that this works for me.
I found this site and this recipe a couple of years ago and it is absolutely perfect for medium rare. It comes out exactly as the recipe claims: you get perfectly cooked, pink, juicy meat from the center to the edges. I would not cook any roast without using a meat thermometer, so that's a given, and I only cook prime rib on Christmas so we have no set time to eat anyway so I just go by when it's done. So today we'll eat somewhere around 4. Or maybe 5. Who cares? It's Christmas and we've got all day.
Covered or uncovered? I just put mine in the oven. Should I take the cover off?
I have never cooked a roast w/a cover. In my opinion, I would say absolutely NO cover!
I had never cooked a rib roast on low heat before discovering this site. However we had the BEST roast we have ever cooked today thanks to the tips here.
Just a quick recap of the process we followed. I set the roast out of the frig about three hours before sticking it in the oven. I seasoned it with our favorite rub, inserted the thermometer probe in the roast and let it sit out on the counter until time to cook. I pre-heated the oven to 250F (my oven seems a little slow although I have never checked it with a thermometer). I put the roast in 5 hours from our desired eating time and shut the door and never opened it for fear we would lose the heat and increase the cooking time. Low and behold our 7 lb roast was finished to 132F internal in a litlle under 4 hours. I didn't jack the heat at the end up to brown the outside since we liked the finished product as it came out of the oven.
I let it rest about 30 minutes while we got the rest of the sides together and then we carved it.
It was beautifully med rare through the whole roast and was so tender you could almost cut it with a fork. I will never roast a rib roast any other way. By the way, the roast was purchased at Costo and was marked USDA Choice.
Thanks again for this great site.
I always prepare a RibRoast for Christmas Day with just my husband and children. It's been a tradition since I've been married (23yrs).
However, I have always cooked my roast using the standard 350degree temp, and it has ALWAYS resulted in a roast whose juices would spill out once carved, no matter how long I let it sit. Last year while searching the internet for a better solution, I found discussions of cooking at a much lower temp (250) and gave it a try. The roast was perfect! Dark pink all the way through without any bleedout of its "rareness". Today I cooked my roast (7.6lbs) at 200 degrees and then up to 500degrees to crisp up the exterior, and it's currently sitting for the allotted time, waiting to be carved and skoffed down! I am confident it will be even better than last year's 250degree roast. Nothing better than a perfectly cooked beast on Christmas Day!
Merry Christmas to all of you out there, cooking perfect prime rib roasts!
-Carole in Tucson AZ
Excellent cooking advise Prime Rib. I just cooked a 15 pounder (not cut in half and and initial internal temp of aprox 50 degrees) for 5.5 hours @ 200 degrees, then 10 minutes at 500 degrees. Final temp was around 132 degrees. A perfect Medium Rare. Thanks!
Meat selection is of primary importance.
If unfamiliar with selecting meat, ask for help.
Purchase 1 to 1-1/4 pounds per serving.
Figure 1-1/4 pounds per serving if very ends will not be served.
The rub is also extremely important. Select per your taste.
Wash roast and coat with olive oil, if using a dry rub.
After applying rub, make small slices into meat and insert garlic slices.
Apply rub/garlic to roast 4 hours before cooking.
Bring roast to room temperature (two hours).
Preheat oven to 500 degrees.
Use shallow cooking dish.
Place uncovered into oven. Close door and set timer.
Cook for 5.0 minutes per pound for medium to medium rare.
(4.8 minutes per pound for medium rare to rare.)
Do not open oven door.
Turn off heat - set timer for two hours.
Do not open oven until two hours have passed.
Trim roast from bones; cut and serve.
Unsolicited compliments abounded, including 'Best Ever'.
Using things I learned on this thread, I made a 1-rib (2.25 lb) choice rib roast. Three hours sitting on the counter to warm up, then coated with a cobbled-together crust of cracked black pepper, garlic salt, chopped garlic and horseradish mustard.
I don't have an internal meat thermometer, so did it by the clock: 52 minutes at 200 degrees, then cranked up the oven to 500 degrees for another 13 minutes. Though I will say the oven never got over 400 in that time. I haven't lived here long and am still learning my way around the appliances. The pan juice managed to smoke enough in that time to set off the smoke alarm though...
20 minutes of rest, then serving. It came out rare, which is the way I like it, pretty good, with a potato and gorgonzola-topped broccoli. I will have to get a meat thermometer to remove the guesswork, though. Also some horseradish dressing, and skip the attempted crust next time, I think.
I learned my food hygiene from Madeline Kamman, who was supposed to be the greatest teacher of cooks in recent years. She repeatedly cautioned about the need to move food rapidly through the "danger zone" between about 40 and about 130 when re-heating. That hot water method of re-heating seems to move the food through that zone very slowly.(of bacterial growth)
Also, per Madeline, this technique is not roasting at all, but baking -- she says it's an old institutional (large kitchen) style of cooking meat, that will give good average quality but, per her opinion, never a really succulent roast. (I've bothered looking this up because I was so curious as to why her advice was so different than the recipe here -- it certainly isn't because she was unfamiliar with this style, she just judged it inferior.)
This is by far the best roast I have ever prepared, thank you. And it was done on an outdoor gas grill, not by choice. Our 9 yr old son woke us up about 4:30 am Christmas Day to inform us we had no power. Luckily I had bought a generator 2 weeks ago due to an ice storm that caused us to be out of power for 5 days. The power had been off since 1:15 am so I wasn't about to loose the 10lb roast I had in the fride so i plugged it into the generator. I pulled the roast from the fridge at 8:45 and by 10:45 seeing that the power was probably not returning for our electric oven had to fire up the gas grill. A weber we have had for probably 15- 18 years now that was originally purchased to save a thanksgiving day dinner, but that's another story. I had to run only one burner, and occasionally fire a second burner trying to mantain a 200 degree grill, this was a tedious task but with no power not much else to do. For about a 10lb rib roast for 7.5 hours, pulled it at 131 and it was just like you said, perfect medium rare outside to inside, end to end, a leave in thermometer is key. Can't wait try this on a full rib roast in my oven on New Years Day. I may even consider using my wood fired smoker grill...Thanks again, John in NH.
Yes, this slow-cook is the best method! I've been cooking a 'Roast Beast' for Christmas dinner for many years. I made one change, since my hubby loves the fat/cracklings on the top of the roast very well-done.
I switched to 'broil' for a few minutes, with 1 hour left to completion. (remove meat thermometer first!)
Found your site after a google search. Decided to cook a prime rib roast when i found one on sale at the store for 3.99 a lb picked up a 8 lb roast used the slow cook methond set the oven at 200 f used a remote meat thermometer and when it hit about 130 i pulled the roast out and let it rest for about 30 minutes. it came out perfectly pink.
went out today and picked up a 16 pound roast for New years eve dinner will take better notes.
guessing it will take about 6 hours at 200 f
I have an 18+ rib roast for New Years Day dinner. Am I really looking at 13.5 hours? Or where it is larger is the total length of time going to be shorter. We'd like to serve at 5:30 but I'm not looking forward to being up until 1:00 to let it sit out for 2 hours to then put it in the oven at 3:00am.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
I really need to rewrite this article (at least partially). I should never have provided a time estimate based on weight since it's truly non-linear to weight. An 18+ rib roast will probably take you 4.5 to 6 hours to roast using the 200 degree method.
Thank you for the reply. Would you mind expanding on your reply? I'm a bit nervous now that the difference in time is quite signifcant.
I do realize it is far more important to go by your thermometer than a generic minutes per pound, however you need to start somewhere.
Have you done a full rib roast, in this weight range?
Are you basing your 4.5 to 6 hours on your experience with a full rib roast in this weight range?
Is this recommendation using 200 degrees start to finish, not using a 500 degree for some amount of time initially then cutting the temperature down to 200?
By the way I tried creme brulea for the first time the other night using you're recipe. It was a hit with my son and wife. Can't wait to use it for New Years Day dinner with the whole familiy after the delcious prime rib.
Yes, this is based on experience. (See my comment on Dec 23, 2008.) This is not using the 500 degree initial heating period (although it probably won't really affect the total time estimate). I have never advocated the 500 degree blast (mainly due to the differences in people's ovens - how fast they cool down after coming up to 500 degrees, how fast they heat up to 500 if the blast is at the end, etc.). I like my recipes as repeatable by my readers as possible - so I use steps that are more controlled (not to say that a 500 degree blast doesn't work wonderfully - it does - it's just in some ovens it will prevent you from getting pink all the way to the edge of the roast). I don't like to comment on additions/modifications to the recipe that I post.
Having said that, if you want to know why large pieces of meat don't cook proportionally to the weight of the roast - a lot of it has to do with the size and shape of the roast. When a rib roast is compared to another that is twice as large, you'll notice that it simply gets longer. The surface area (not counting the ends) doubles when the roast doubles. The heat entering the roast on this surface area doubles as well (it's constant for any given square inch - it's doubled because there's 2x surface area). That means for a large roast that increases in length only, you'd expect that the cooking time would be the SAME for all roasts. However, there are the ends to be dealt with - the ends don't increase in size as the roast gets larger/longer - they are constant. So the total surface area of the roast doesn't actually double as the roast doubles in weight - it's a little less than 2x because the ends are constant size. (On a small roast - 2 ribs going to 4 ribs this is a significant amount of the surface area and the roast doesn't even come close to doubling in surface area; on a large roast the ends are a much smaller proportion to the surface area.) The difference in exposed surface area is one of the primary reasons why the cooking temperature isn't constant. In the small roast ranges 2-6 ribs, the cooking time seems fairly linear based on weight - but after that less and less additional time is needed to finish the roast; large roasts 15+ pounds pretty much take the same amount of time to cook. (There are plenty of other factors such as bone-in or out, bone orientation, roast orientation, position in oven, how well the oven retains heat, length of preheat time, temperature of roast, etc. These factors make it impossible for me to just say 4.5 hours or 5 hours and that's why I have to give a range of 4.5-6 hours.)
Hope that helps...
Again thanks for the prompt reply. My hat off to you for a great site and taking time out of your day to be so responsive, I'm sure this isn't your primary job.
Yes it does help. I'm a computer guy so technical answers are a pleasure. As long as you comfortable that 6 hours will be more than enough I use that, if it finishes earlier, I'll cut the oven way down or off, or we just eat earlier.
Well, I have a 15+ lb Boneless Prime Rib that I will be cooking tomorrow for 14 friends. I'm gonna cook at 200F for 5-6 hrs. Wish me luck. All the advice here makes me feel very confident. Any other things to consider?
Also, you'll want to add in up to an hour for resting. This should give you a nice window to hit - if it's done early, just turn off the oven - vent some of the heat and let it rest in there for 1 or 1.5 hours - no problem. If it's done a little late, just rest 30-45 minutes instead.
Wonderful Recipe. A neighbour of mine mentioned cooking Prime Rib at as low a temperature as he could and like you uses a probe thermometer. And then I found your recipe and decided to try it myself on my medium sized Big Green Egg Gril using natural charcoal.
I followed all your instructions which made a lot of sense, including searing the meat for a couple of minutes each side on the stove top. Air drying in the fridge for 24 hours was inspired.
The rib roast was asmall one 4.25 lbs and I did not use a thermometer but went with your estimate of 45 min. per lb. Placed the meat on a rack on a pan in the grill and cranked it down. It would only go down to 210F but after 3 1/4 hours it kept the temperature constantly. Took out the meat, set it aside for 20 min, carved it and low and behold, the slices looked exactly like your photograph on this site.
It tasted phenomenally. Best piece of roast beef I've had in many a year.
Congratulations, Great web site.
Are cooking bags (i.e. Renolyds) good to use for prime rib
Years ago I started slow cooking whether it's in the oven or on the BBQ. The wife has also started cooking that way, changing from her mothers cooking of meat has to be done (dry). The wife for years now has been eating medium to medium rare cooking. I have never tried cooking a rib roast at 200F. My normal temperature is 250F. I have done several roast in rock salt which works out really great. Today I'm going to try the 200F roasting. I have been using the Morton Salt Recipe which calls for a 350F temp, but I have always cooked at 250F. Below are the seasonings that I use:
I have rubbed the roast with the above and now is marinating in a vacuum seal bag in the refrigerator. It's 9:30 and I will wait until 3:00 to start cooking at 200F. The roast is only 3 lbs since there is only two of us. French dips tomorrow. Happy New Year to all
Guest: No, do not use a bag - roast uncovered.
squatch - the salt bed sounds interesting - do you have any specifics on how it makes stuff do whatever it supposed to do (better - one presumes)?
I doubt that you'll find any significant difference between 200'F and 250'F - it will finish in less time but I don't think it's going to affect the overall result.
The recipe is at the Morton Salt website. You use coarse Kosher salt. This is finer than rock salt, but grainier than table salt. You add water the salt to make a paste. What you are going to do is encase the roast in a salt blanket about 1 inch thick. During the cooking process the salt should become hard around the roast. All of the cooking juices stay within the roast that help make it tender. I have seen some restaurants use this method.
ah! I mis-read your post!
I've done the "salt encased" for (whole) fish, not for beef - interesting approach.
I never thought of using it for fish. The problem is there is only two of us and I do a Salmon fillet with skin on. I do a sour cream (should use cream fresche), mayo, horseradish, and parmesan cheese mixture. Coat the fish than roll in bread crumbs (I use seasoned croutons). BBQ on a gas grill on low indirect heat with smoke chips.
>> two of us
oh yup. am there, doing that.
some fish dishes I like:
salmon steaks - stuff the center with a sea scallop, pan sear on high heat both sides; 2 mins max; finish in a 320'F oven; option: pile shallot/mushroom mix on steaks; top with lemon slice, as they go in oven
serve with: asparagus & Bearnaise sauce, oh yum.
fish lasagna: filets of a white fish - anything from flounder to perch -
olive oil, salt pepper, layer with sauted mushroom/onion(family)/breadcrumb(panko my fav); top layer of crumb topped with thin sliced tomato; oven bake
I seared on propane grill after brushing with olive oil then cooked at 250. The 7 lb'er was done in 4 or 5 hours. Cooked up some mushrooms in a pan using the fat and enjoyed the best darn prime rib i've ever had.
Next time I'll try the aging.
Wow, never knew it was so easy, thanks!
to season the prime rib or any roasted meat get some elephant garlic and grate the garlic and your onion together and mix with herbs and roast it. the garlic well be crusted and will be so great that you will be in 7th heaven
I rub mine with olive oil browning sauce and the coat it with sreak seasoning before i cook low and slow
Mr. Michael Chu has provided the best practical method of roasting Prime Rib.
Upon reading the entire comments section; it is amazing the resistance of many to employing Mr. Chu's method. It makes perfect sense to "roast" a prime rib below the boiling point of water.
Personally I searched for years to duplicate the magnificant prime rib at a particular restaurant, a restaurant that served prime rib that was so excellent it was lightyears ahead of the nearest competitor restaurant. I even "dumpster dived" to learn the source and quality of the meat used -- it is simply boxed cryovac packaged USDA Choice boneless short loin primals from IBP or Excel, exactly the same as you can purchase whole at Sam's Club or Costco. I'd be surprised if very few restaurants except the most upscale actually utilize USDA Prime grade.
I eventually found a recipe essentially the same as Mr. Chu's (http://www.parshift.com/ovens/Secrets/secrets049.htm) employing the same low temperature process. All anxiety is now gone, preparing an excellent prime rib is routine and simple.
Applying "engineering" to a process that has so many variables is difficult, Mr, Chu does a great job in applying logic and intelligence to the method (perhaps more than engineering).
For example, unlike steel that has the exact same properties that never vary, two pieces of beef are unlikely to ever be the same due to how the animal was fed, the breed of the animal and countless other variables. People's individual taste is possibly the biggest variable of all.
Ovens (especially home ovens) vary wildly in temperature control, our kitchen oven at times varies as much a 50 degrees farenheit.
Engineering however does apply in the necessity for quantifying devices such as digital thermometers, which are absolutely essential.
I employ 3 digital thermometer probes, 2 for the meat itself and one to fine tune the oven temp. These probes (Taylor model 1470) are inexpensive, all three can be bought for half the price of the short loin itself.
For those who only do prime rib once a year and have been bombarded with recipes the can only be classified as "internet slobber" (including many of the Food Network "entertainers") have a small window for failure.
Advice -- employ Mr. Chu's method -- maintain your oven temp at 200 degrees farenheit, push a digital temp probe's point into the exact center of the meat and you'll get the best prime rib possible for your set of variables.
Just a comment about the Ziploc bag reheating suggestion. Ziploc has actually saidf to not do this. Their bags are not designed to withstand the temperatures of boiling water and plastic can migrate into your food.
I don't know at what temperature Ziploc bags start to degrade, but the water should be in the range of 120-140 F. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose and you'll have continued cooking of the outer meat while the inside is still cold. Of course this reheating method is time consuming, but produces some of the better results.
Sam's Club had a marked down package of chuck, buck something a pound. (old meat is good, dry aged a little, old time butchers took home the meat that was greening because they knew it was more flavorful and tender(aged).
It was an extra thick cut, about 3 inches.
The marbling is what jumped out at me, what one would expect from a excellent quality steak.
I thought -- I'll experiment, digital temp probe this puppy, olive oil salt pepper, roast with Mr. Chu's 200° F method, blast 15 minutes at end for darkened crust, pull at 135° for medium, what do I have to lose, 6 bucks?
It wasn't exactly prime rib, BUT it wasn't far from it!
The chuck roast was absolutely the best I have ever had, the spouse remarked she never knew chuck could be so tender and taate so good.
Thinly sliced the remnants, nice slightly pink slices.
This morning had a super great steak omelet.
6 bucks of chuck, 2 fine meals for 2 people. Thanks Mr. Chu.
Hi Michael, I'm wondering if you can tell me how to cook THREE 6-7 pound standing rib roasts at the same time. I'm making them for Easter I(the day after tomorrow) so if you or anyone else has an answer, please let me know asap. Thanks so much! And I love the slow cook method! Sound great! Marilyn
I've done three six lbers at a clip in a standard 30 inch oven.
you will need more time - the oven heat is being absorbed by more mass.
Just finished dinner and my sweety said it was the best prime rib he has had in years! Preheated oven to 500 degrees F and seasoned the roast with garlic, Pepper and Lawry's Season Salt. Placed it in a roasting pan (open) for 20 minutes. (2.6# roast/2 bones). Lowered the heat to 200 degrees F for 15 minutes a pound till thermometer read 130 degrees F. Took it out and let it sit while I made the Pudding. (1/2 batch) after standing for 20 minutes, it was over cooked for med rare. about 1/2 of it was med well and the rest was about med.
This is from starting it at 500 degrees and turning it down. Like Mr. Chu said, if you cook it at a steady 200 degrees it will cook evenly, if you don't follow directions it will not turn out the same!
It was still delicious, juicy, tender and not at all dry.
In the interest of full disclosure I am not engineer nor do I play one on television. I was just looking for a way to not ruin another Easter dinner. I love roast beef but have never gotten them right. So I Google prime rib and to my surprise I find this article. It seemed so easy I took off for BJs Wholesale and grabbed a 15 pound boneless rib eye. I cut a 8 pound roast and made the rest into steaks. I made a paste of olive oil, crushed garlic, minced fresh Rosemary and some sea salt and freshly ground pepper. I followed your instructions, searing all sides, then covering with the paste and setting it in an oven at 200 degrees. I was skeptical as I didn't think anything could cook at such a low temp. I was very wrong. I have eaten prime rib at a lot of restaurants and weddings and this one matched and surpassed the best of them. Thanks for posting your recipe and thanks to everyone else that posted reaffirming that this was the way to go.
I made a killer prime rib, melted in my mouth and my wife thinks I am the nads.
This will now become my favourite cooking website.
It's so refreshing to hear from other engineers on this subject.
Hi ~ Love this sight and particularly this recipe - I've used both many times since I initially stumbled upon it back in 2005. :) I, too, prefer a standing rib roast. However, I have a large boneless prime rib roast (do you still call it a rib roast when it has no ribs?) - in any case - same piece of meat with no ribs. Do I need to make any adjustments to time per pound or temperature to follow this recipe for a boneless roast? Thanks so much ~ Jackie
hopefully you have a thermometer to help with the roasting -
but specifically to your question, yes - the cooking time will be less because bones do soak up quite a bit of heat energy.
regrets I can't say by how much exactly - actually never done one without the bones <g>
but you should be using the thermometer and not just x minutes per pound type of thing.
I do have the polder model that you recommend, so I will follow all other recommendations for the recipe and decrease the overall time. We'll just be good and flexible in our dinner time that night! :) Thanks again - Jackie
Dinner time doesn't necessarily have to be flexible. If you take regular samples (every thirty minutes or so), you can see how fast the roast is cooking and then modify your temperature (turning it down to 170 if you think it'll finish too early; turning it up to 250 if you realized it's taking longer than expected) to try to hit a window. I've had pretty good success with this method.
Hi Again ~ My roast is 15 pounds - boneless - do you think six hours seems like a reasonable ball park - then I will adjust the temp up or down as I monitor the internal temp? It goes in the oven in the morning. Thanks ~ Jackie
Looking at the spreadsheet I have from the last time I did a 15 pound rolled rib roast, six hours seems reasonable. It took me four hours to go from 36F to 120F at which point I turned off the oven (but kept the roast in there) to slow down the cooking for an extra hour or two before turning the oven back on to bring it to its final temp.
My guess is that you'll have your roast done in about 5.5 hours give or take. Remember to leave time to rest the roast after you remove it from the oven. For a roast that large, I'll rest it for 45 minutes and it will usually hold it's temperature for serving for a good hour after that.
I have been using the slow cooking temperature and timing used on the Prime Rib area for my Tri-Tips and its given fantastic results! The roast has been uniformly rare to medium rare through out the entire piece of meat and the tenderness from cooking at the low temperature is marvelous.
I do score the fat and use humongous amounts of crushed garlic and mustard smothering the roast along with other things I like to add and the condo smell likes the Gilroy garlic festival.
Thanks for the great idea
I cooked one 2 weeks ago by putting some olive oil in a pan and searing all sides. Then I smothered it with salt and pepper and stuck in the 200 degree oven for what ended up being almost exactly 45 minutes per pound (4 lbs). It came out absolutely perfect. I have a 6 pound one that is sitting on the counter now getting ready to be put in the oven and I am doing it the same way accept with the adition of Garlic under the fat.
This is so fool proof it's almost funny. My roast cooked this method rivals any restaurant around. I also roast a traditional roast beef this way and it also results in med-rare all the way through and is also very tender. I am going to try this with a fresh ham (uncured pork roast) and see how that works. Follow this to the letter and even those who think they can't most definitely can!
the "low and slow" method works for a lot of meats / cuts. it suffers from the all too popular "and I want it now" mentality / approach of hectic living.
not all tasty things can be done in the microwave <g>
try fried chicken:
prep: soak / dry / egg wash /seasoned flour/coating.
fry pan cook at high heat _just_ for pretty and color
finish in the oven, on a rack, at 325'F for 30-40 minutes.
beef roasts / chunks - I use 310'F
pork roasts / chunks - 335'F
(seems pork fat takes a little more heat to 'render' . . .)
Having cooked quite a few Prime
Rib dinners for my Masonic Lodge and also having catered a few Prime Rib dinners for other organizations, an important thing to remeber is in the selection of the meat itself. For the past 8 or 10 years I have always gone to Cash and Carry (a semi commercial grocer that is in my neck of the woods) where in the chill box they will have many full size prime ribs, ssome with bone and many more without. When the roast is cold, the fat congeals so it is firm to the feel. The lean portion doesnot congeal so it is soft to feel. Cash and Carry will normally have 8 to 15 cases (about 6 roasts to a case) and I have gone through several cases feeling each and every roast until I come up with 4 or 5 that I need for the upcoming dinner. They usually run about 14 to 15 pounds each without bones and we usually figure about 10 to 12 ounces raw per serving.
Michael, I've been slow roasting for years, but your techniques have helped me to achieve consistent results, so thanks for being here.
Help me with a new problem, if you will. I need to cook two roasts, and need to estimate cook time. Do I consider the combined weight of the two, or estimate for each? Example: @25 minutes/pound, a 10 pound roast would take 250 minutes. How long would it take two 10 pound roasts?
Even for a single roast, the x minutes / pound equation doesn't work. The amount of energy being absorbed by the roast is mostly governed by surface area, so cooking time is most closely related to surface area / volume. If 250 min. works for you for a 10 pound roast, then something close to 250 minutes will work for you with two 10 pound roasts (of similar dimensions). It isn't quite that simple since the oven has to be able to maintain consistent temperature and have infinite heat capacitance and there's airflow around the roasts to consider, etc, but I would guess that if given adequate spacing (a couple inches between at least), the extra roast shouldn't increase cooking time by more than 30 minutes. Start checking when you normally would and don't be surprised if the time comes out remarkably close to if you roasted only one.
I appreciate the quick response, Michael. 25/lb was simply for illustration. I'll use my past results (duly recorded) to determine the actual. However, your answer was exactly what I needed to know.
So, 2 shallow pans, 2 thermometers and an extra 30 minutes are now part of my plan. From one engineer to another, thanks.
Roasting Prime Rib (or any other roast) below the boiling point of water is critical.
My oven cycles on at 197 degrees F and off at 205 degrees F maintaining temperature below the boiling point of water.
Why is that important?
Temperatures above 212 degrees will boil the water out of the Prime Rib drying out the meat.
Temperatures below 212 degrees will retain the water and importantly the water facilitates conduction for a nice even raosting.
Another benefit of temps below 212° is far less rendering of internal fat.
This recipe results in the most delicious prime rib ever! I coat mine with cumin and horseradish in addition to salt and pepper after inserting a few cloves of garlic in the fat. Absolutely scrumptious. And no hassle with the cooking. It does require around the holiday time that you plan your pie baking in advance as your oven will be tied up for a significant period of time if you're cooking for a crew. But it actually makes my life easier to have my pies baked a day in advance and then just let this baby cook nice and slow on the holiday...
Thanks to all the people who commented, too. I haven't tried the mustard yet but intend to...
Thanks so much for the tips! I just fed our family of 8 and everyone loved it. It was easy to cook, the meat was tender, juicy and flavorful and I have to admit, one of the best meals I've ever prepared. This is definitely the way to go.
so,,, if you roast the prime rib to an internal temp of oh,,, say 130'F - just exactly how does the "water boil out of the meat" because the oven temp may be set on 250'F ?
Hi all old chemist here. Been cooking rib roasts for many years with variations on the above method. I find that many restaurants have about a 1/2" of almost well done meat on the outside with a great herb flavor.
I really like this 1/2" of meat along with med rare for the rest of the roast.
So I how do I duplicate this without messing up the rest of the roast.
I usually cook first 20-30 minutes at 450F then pull the roast and cool the oven to 250F and preceed from there, but I am not getting that 1/2" outer layer that I like,its thinner.
Thoughts, how dangerous to increase my time at 450F or is there a better way.
try reversing the temp curve - roast low&slow, then jack it up at the end to get the crisp crust & 'done' penetration you want.
a thermometer with a long probe is a real asset here - with a long enough probe to reach the center(+) you can judge the interior rare.
then with the high heat - 450'F or better - you can measure temps in the first inch or so - 165'F would be well done. the 'finish' should only take max 30 minutes (not removing the roast for the 'preheat') and since temp is moving from the outside to the inside, you can cut it off where you'd like it.
I saw on david rosengargen's taste program in the mid 90's that "Prime"
in prime rib comes from the fact that it is a "primal" cut of beef. Not really related to the usda grading.
Nevertheless, a tasty piece of beef!
Dilbert Thanks: I have done roasts both ways, I like the high temp first method,with a slow cook. For my next Christmas dinner for 10 people in a few weeks, I will pull the roast at a lower temp and also do an additional high temp finish. I use a calibrated long probe mechanical thermometer to get close then an instant read probe to make sure I am at the correct temp.
I will probably need to do two roasts again this year, found out last year that it is a little tricky, they did not cook at the same rate.
>>"prime rib" is not necessarily USDA grade prime
this is true.
oft called a "standing rib roast" - the "prime" in "prime rib" is not related to USDA grading specifications.
excellent point for this thread - thanks!
I normally slow roast a prime rib at 235'F - a bit lower but not likely to hugely differ from your experiences. seems that "beef fat rendering" happens somewhere between 235'F and 245'F . . .
the blast&slow vs slow&blast thing is a curious dilemma - but I think there is an explanation to why it works / doesn't work for various folk,,, depending....
the "pro" for slow first, toast last, is it is more difficult to "overdo" the toast. the slow roast first gets the meat 'done' ala thermometer / preference perfection - then it's just a matter of blasting it to "make pretty" - attention span more likely 'focused' . . .
the "con" I've seen is gosh, the post slow-roast meat surface just doesn't quite react the same as "fresh into the blast furnace." methinks I get more better crisp & crunch & caramel with the "blast first" method.
the "con" to blast first is simply "once cooked, veddy tricky to uncook"
lacking the cook's acute attention span . . . not good.
the caveat is: blast thee not too long! and perhaps that's where some folk go astray.
using a 235'F slo-fast roast routine , my experience is the 'medium' stage extends only to the first 'fat' layer - which could be half, 3/4, mebbe an inch, into the roast. the heat energy absorbed by that outer fat layer 'rendering' seems to protect the (further) interior parts.
I'm still using my centuries old non-electronic non-instant non-digital Taylor dial thermometer with an 8" probe. now and then I check it in boiling water - not sure it it is perfectly accurate - perhaps I've been calibrated to "it" - but heh, works in this house!
Has anyone had experience with using a roaster oven to roast prime rib? I have the aforementioned beast and have checked it's temperature with a calibrated oven thermometer...strangely, it's right on. My question is: would the roasting time be the same in a roaster oven as in the oven in my household range? Or will the difference in oven cavity size make a difference in the roasting time. I'll be roasting Friday morning. Thanks for the wonderful site!
"so,,, if you roast the prime rib to an internal temp of oh,,, say 130'F - just exactly how does the "water boil out of the meat" because the oven temp may be set on 250'F ?"
Respectfully Mr Dilbert, perhaps a study of the principles of vapor pressure as it relates to culinary arts will be informative, if not absolutely educational.
Conserving the internal juices and the internal fat in the meat is critical.
Alton Brown debunked the widely disseminated internet myth that searing meat "locked in the juices". MYTH BUSTED the Mythbusters would be proud.
If anyone still doubts the 200-210 degree roasting temperature as near ideal (for prime rib), go study the barbeque business where the meat is cooked for 10-12 hours at 200 degrees (and below) yet it maintains its juicy goodness and acheives a perfect tenderness.
It isn't an accident the cooking temperatures are below the boiling point of water.
I have roasted prime rib at 185-190 degrees and achieved a perfect pink medium rare across the entire cross section of the ribeye.
Perfect in juiciness.
Perfect in tenderness.
The Holy Grail of prime rib is sub 210 degree roasting temperatures, any thing above 210 degrees results in a compromised piece of meat.
That perfect crust?
Personally I can do just fine without it, but many associate a tasty salty crust with the prime rib experience.
310 degrees is where the Maillard Reaction occurs. Remember it.
Lots of methods to get there without turning the meat into charcoal.
I have done it with a extra heavy duty propane torch, the kind professional roofers use to install melt down roofing.
The best results were obtained from over a charcoal grill. 10-15 minutes rolling on a hot grill produces near perfect results, very similar process to grilling a steak. Radiant heat seems best.
In an oven (with door open) under the broiling element also takes advantage of radiant heating. (Famous Peter Luger's Steak House uses the broiling method to do their porterhouse steaks)
I have a 13" square chimney tile that I put the roast into for cooking. The ceramic does a beautiful job at keeping the temperature at an even 200 degrees, and it's cheap. I cap up the ends with heavy foil.
One note though. The tile's going to be longer than your oven, and you'll need to cut it to length. Don't wait until Christmas eve to do this, your neighbors will hate you, and the snow will be uniformly tinted brick-red. :-)
rob in NH
>>Respectfully Mr Dilbert, perhaps a study of the principles of vapor pressure as it relates to culinary arts will be informative, if not absolutely educational.
I did not major in thermodynamics, but since you are boiling away the water inside the meat at 130'F I presume you are roasting it in a vacuum chamber.
are you perchance confused about "boiling" vs. "evaporation"?
evaporation is a surface effect - not going to happen "inside" the meat.
<<<I did not major in thermodynamics, but since you are boiling away the water inside the meat at 130'F I presume you are roasting it in a vacuum chamber. are you perchance confused about "boiling" vs. "evaporation"? evaporation is a surface effect - not going to happen "inside" the meat.>>>
Respectfully Mr Dilbert, I have neither the time nor the inclination to educate the uneducable or to engage the compulsively argumentative.
Mr Chu, the originator of this forum, has it 100% correct, 200 degrees farenheit is the ideal roasting temperature.
It is astounding the number of posters that come here to argue for argument's sake instead of learning or to proliferate the same tired useless internet babble that contaminates the web.
Roast your prime rib at 200 degrees farenheit.
Follow Mr Chu's instructions above and you will have a prime rib equal to or better than the best prime rib in any restaurant.
Where to buy a decent ribeye roast?
Sam's Club is now selling Certified Angus Beef, choice grade.
Checkout the packaged ribeye steaks in the display case for an indication of quality. Been looking excellent the last while.
If you can't use the whole cryovac 15-16 pound primal, ring the bell ask the butcher if he'll cut one in half for you. He most likely will as he can cut the rest into steaks for the display case.
Very good point.
No two pieces of meat are the same.
It is a variable that without the experience such as yours in the selection of the best from similar looking pieces that places the amateur cook at a disadvantage.
Often the disappointment with a finished prime rib being less than desired has more to do with the meat itself than the roasting method.
Thanks for pointing out that comparing the "softness" of meat is a good indicator of quality.
If you experience a disappointing result while employing Mr. Chu's low temperature slow roasting method, remember it could be the particular piece of meat you chose. Don't give up, try again.
Okay, I need help.....As a non-engineer, but having several friends who are, I have a couple of big boneless Ribeye roasts to do for Christmas Day. The 1st weighs in just over 14 lbs and the other is just under 12 lbs. Using the 200 degree cooking temperature method, what kind of time estimate would I be looking at in order to meet a 1 pm CST serving time? Would it be better to set my oven to the convection method or simply go traditional cooking under the roasting option? And finally, do I place these on a wire rack in each pan, or should I just put them on the bottom of the pan? After getting the "Sticker Shock" :shock: for the prices of these mammouth pieces of meat, I do NOT want to screw this up.....Any & ALL help is very much appreciated! Thanks!
I read most of the posts on this stream. It was very useful. I had 20 people over yesterday and we served a 16 pound ribeye roast (with bones). It was the entire rack. It worked out beautifully, thanks to this site. This is what I did:
preparation (I did two hours, but probably better if longer)
1) took the roast out of the refrigerator 3 hours before roasting.
2)I slivered some garlic and inserted them in the sides and top of the roast (approx 4 cloves sliced into 20 slivers).
3) made a marinade out of olive oil, lots of kosher salt, onion powder, garlic powder, pepper and a touch of cumin. Sorry, I am not an engineer, so no measurements! Minced half a medium yellow onion (into fairly small pieces) and added it. Rub it into all meat surfaces and let stand.
Preheat oven to 500 degrees on convection roast(this took 30 minutes in a Wolf range due to no exposed heating elements)
put to roast in for 7 minutes, then rotate for another 7 minutes (due to the convection fans blowing hot air from the back of the oven.
I was concerned about the oven not "cooling off" fast enough from 500 degrees to 190degrees. So, I opened the oven door, took to roast out, put in the temperature probe (very handy for roasting meats), waited 5 minutes (to let to oven cool off), then put to roast back in.
I am not sure what the temperature was in the oven when I returned the roast (I do not have an oven thermometer and did not bother messing with the knob to measure the temperature). My guess is that it came down to 350 degrees or so.
I set the oven to 190 degrees, set the probe at 125 degrees internal temperature, then let it roast. Based on the posts, I thought it would take 6 hours. But after 4 hours, the temp reached 121 degrees and I pulled it out and covered it with foil. The temp raised to 132 degrees, then cooled to 110 degrees (based on instraread thermometer readings)
Dinner was not for 3 more hours, so I waited until one hour before serving time, then returned the roast to a 170 degree oven. The probe was now "confused" since the internal was only showing 109 degrees, but I knew it had reached 132 degrees earlier. I let it roast for 10 minutes, then pulled it out. When I cut the roast in the middle, it was perfectly medium rare (Whew!).
I served it and it was a big hit. the cross section of the meat has about 1/4 inch seared and the rest of it was uniformly medium rare. Also, one cut in from the end cut of this large roast was about as medium rare as the center of this roast. So, almost an entire roast of medium rare.
We ate almost the entire roast, with some kids having 4 servings. We only have about 3 slice left in the fridge. That will probably disappear today!
Lessons: it is well worth the trouble, but the timing is a bit tricky, so watch the internal temperature. My guess is a 16 lb roast would take about 5 hours including searing (without the time out we had yesterday).
Bought one Angus and one regular choice grade both from the Acme /Lancaster Brand, I tried to pick the choice piece with as much small flecks of fat as the Angus had. Will evaluate the quality of the meat as to taste and tenderness between the two pieces. This will be a small sample population of 10 people, but since I will be tasting it myself
my judgement will decide on what to buy next year.
Old Mike/Retired Chemist
>>It is astounding the number of posters that come here to argue for argument's sake instead of learning or to proliferate the same tired useless internet babble that contaminates the web.
Roast your prime rib at 200 degrees farenheit.
Follow Mr Chu's instructions above and you will have a prime rib equal to or better than the best prime rib in any restaurant.
ah nuts, here's some interesting babble:
"Dinner time doesn't necessarily have to be flexible. If you take regular samples (every thirty minutes or so), you can see how fast the roast is cooking and then modify your temperature (turning it down to 170 if you think it'll finish too early; turning it up to 250 if you realized it's taking longer than expected) to try to hit a window. I've had pretty good success with this method."
apparently the water in his roast does not boil.
Sigh. I really didn't want to chime in on this. The anonymous poster who is defending the 200F cooking method is on the right track, but scientifically incorrect. Dilbert is right on this one.
The water/liquid in the roast does not boil - even if we cooked the thing at 350F.
The liquid loss is due to evaporation as the deep interior of the roast never exceeds 135F and the exterior (although reaching temperatures high enough to boil water, long since loses all its water content due to evaporation at lower temperatures as it is brought up to its final temperature). By far, the biggest reason for liquid loss due to evaporation is the "squeezing" out of water stored in the cells out to the exterior of the roast where it evaporates. This is caused by the constriction of proteins as they increase in temperature and the main reason why a well done roast is dry (not because the temperature got so high the water boiled off). At the end of the day, it comes down to temperature control and in an attempt to get the roast to be as uniform as possible, I advocate cooking it at a temperature as close to your final temperature as possible (let's say 135F), BUT cooking at lower than 200F takes so long that I chose 200F as a happy medium between perfect roast and reasonable length of time. That's why 200F was chosen. Higher temperatures would lead to greater and greater non-uniformity of temperature in the roast (outside hotter than inside) which would overcook the exterior (some people like the gradient, so this recipe isn't for them). The higher the temperature, the greater the gradient. No boiling of anything.
It's actually really difficult to boil anything the size of a roast due to the ample surface area and comparatively huge amount of energy that needs to be imparted to bring the interior to boiling point (outside a vacuum). It might be doable in a microwave oven with a smaller roast (too big and the microwaves can't penetrate far enough).
14 vs 12 pounds is not a size difference to cause concern with 'unequal' roasting time - especially in the low and slow method. as pointed out in the long string of messages in this thread, how fast the heat penetrates / cooks the roast is dependent more on surface area than mass, per se.
using 200'F you can use the "45 mins per pound" as a starting guideline - but as you are doing two separate roasts, it's not 26 lbs x 45 minutes - the oven has the "power" to keep up the set temp - in other words, the oven won't "know" it has two separate roasts - it will cook both 'evenly'
so looking at the extremes:
14 lbs x 45 min/lb = 10.5 hours
12 lbs x 45 min/lb = 9 hours
and frankly I suspect both will be a "long" estimate - I do 10 pounders at 235'F - which takes about 4 hours. 14 lbs at 235'F I'd guesstimate at 5 hours.
roasting at 200'F will extend the time, but I doubt it will double.
the "trick" is to use a thermometer to measure how fast the roast(s) are cooking.
a 130'F internal temp is 'traditional' for rare - 136'F for medium.
write drown the time & temp as you roast - check initially every 45 minutes or so, when internal temps get above 90, check every thirty minutes.
forget the nonsense about opening the oven door - you're dealing with thermal masses thaty will never dsitinguish a 30 second vs 2 minute open door.
you'll quickly see if it's going to get done sooner / later / just right time wise. internal temperature rise slows at it increases (given the same oven temp) - so you can increase or decrease the oven temp to speed up / slow down the roasting. that includes the "Off" position.
on a rack will help with heat penetration from below vs 'flat on a pan" - end effect - cooks faster.
pulling the roast(s) out of the fridge for one-two hours prior to oven also helps cut down on cooking time as they will warm up a bit.
I would do them on wire racks spaced apart to allow air flow. You're going to probably need two probe thermometers, but if you only have one then stick it in the smaller of the roasts to begin with. Mostly, at these sizes, it's just the diameter of the roast that dictates cooking time - a slightly longer roast won't change cooking time as surface area of the longer roast increases at roughly the same rate as the mass (this is not true when the roast is actually getting LARGER and not just LONGER).
I would budget 5 hours of roasting time and 1 hour of resting, but you WILL need the probe thermometer. If you don't have one, you have a day or two to go to the Bed Bath & Beyond to get one. Take some notes as it roasts so you can track how fast the interior temperature is rising and don't worry, it starts off a bit slow. Do not be afraid to fiddle with oven temperature controls to get it to slow down or speed up slightly to get you to your target time. Try to stop cooking about an hour (or tad less) before service.
Okay, so I checked my oven manual and I can run the probe on the Convection Roast setting....Convection is supposed to circulate for a more even finish and also provide the browning that I would obtain if I seared the sides. Now, as for the 5 hours @ 200 degrees, that sounds fine, but do I understand that I then let the roasts set under the foil tent for an hour before serving? That seems long to me, but I do understand that there is still cooking occuring.....Just seems like they would get cold if I let them stand that long. I trust what you are telling me is true, just need more insight. Also, I only have one probe that connects directly to the oven, so I can put a meat thermometer in the other roast, if that is what you suggest. My oven will shut off after the internal temp meets what I have set.....My wife thinks I should get to at least to MED. RARE, if not closer to Medium....I don't want to ruin this by overcooking, so after standing, it sounds like I would want to be in that 136 degree range. Thanks for any & all responses!!
Convection probably would not get the brown crust you are looking for unless your oven runs hot for brief amounts of time as it cycles. 200F just isn't hot enough to brown, so I suggest you brown first. As for the hour of rest - it's not actually "cooking" in that period of time, but the temperature on the outside and the inside is evening out and then the whole thing starts to cool a little. The proteins begin to relax slightly which allows the free juices to be reabsorbed (to a point). 1 hour resting shouldn't be an issue for a 14 and 12 pound solid mass at an average temp of 135F unless your room temperature is really cold. Think of how long it takes an equivalent amount of water (about 6 quarts) to cool. As long as you serve it above body temperature, you'll be fine. You can leave the probe in there to see what the roast temperature is while you let it rest as well.
Thanks Michael !! Yeah, the room shouldn't be ice cold.....Unless we open the window to get some air, but it sounds like we may be in the midst of a Blizzard around that time, so it will probably remain closed! :lol: That actually helps to free up space for my wife to pop the cheesey potatoes in to get them hot in the oven. So, I should probably season the roast on Christmas Eve, pull them out around 4 or 5 am, and then put them in around 7 am to get them done in order to serve @ 1 pm. We have a plan......Now just wish me luck!! I really do appreciate all the help everyone has given me........MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you!!
hey michael, where do you stick in the meat thermometer? i know its supposed to go right into the center, but is there a place you like to place it in particular? i feel kinda strange about poking a hole in my roast and am paranoid about juices leaking out.
Dear Mr. Chu,
The poster you reference as being correct misconstrued and misstated the original post.
The statement was that temperatures higher than 212 degrees would boil the water "OUT of the meat", NEVER was it stated water would boil within the meat.
Water boiling (evaporating) off the surface creates a vapor pressure that draws even more water to the surface to evaporate. You refer to it as "squeezing" out, out being the key word, as in "out" of the meat.
My point was simple -- keep the roasting temperature below the boiling point AND the prime rib will experience much less water loss.
Call it "squeezing" out, capillary action, vapor pressure or whatever other scientific or unscientific term, the fact is the higher the heat the greater the water loss from within the meat.
Beyond the water loss with higher heats is higher fat loss. Fat loss equals flavor loss.
If the professional barbeque folks would cook a slab of ribs at 235 degrees as the correct poster you are referring to roasts his prime rib, after 12 hours that slab of ribs would come out not unlike a chunk of stringy charcoal.
Barbeque professionals cook below the boiling point of water for a very obvious reason.
I regret ever responding to the poster in question, unfortunately I took his bait and have trashed up your forum, for that I am sorry.
I have seen him on other forums and have total contempt for him and his ilk that spew their mental slobber all over the internet.
Thanks Larry for sharing some very important information for those that sear before roasting.
Good ovens retain heat very well.
A 500° oven may take an hour or more to fall back to the 190° roasting temperature.
Opening the door to cool the oven was a very good idea.
I was great to hear that this thread helped you put on a great feed.
Learning is what it is all about and you in turn contributed important information.
Fully enjoyed reading Mr Chu's recipe article and all the comments over the years! I have been using the low temperature roasting for a couple of years with much success. After finding this site/topic, I now have to have prime rib for New Years!!! I made one last year for Christmas using the 200 F roasting technique - it was absolutely great! Now I want to add the dry aging for 5 days!
Within a few of the comments on this topic, several references were made to "browning" and the "Maillard reaction". As a carbohydrate chemist (retired), that is a pet peeve! LOL! The "Maillard reaction" refers specifically to reactions with sugars and amino acids/proteins. The browning reactions in meat are NOT "Maillard reactions" (unless you dredge it in flour). This misconception is so pervasive in the food sciences that it is unlikely it will ever get corrected - besides, it sounds so erudite.
Meat contains very little sugar (surprise!) - less than 0.1% What meat does have is a lot of myoglobin - it makes red meat red. White meat contains less myoglobin than dark meat; beef contains more myoglobin than pork and, pork more than chicken. You may have noticed that red meat (or dark meat) browns much more readily than white meat; beef more than pork and pork more than chicken breast.
The browning reactions for meat are from the breakdown of the myoglobin and its tetrapyrrole (porphorin) rings. The breakdown of the tetrapyrroles leads to reactions SIMILAR to those of the Maillard reaction, but very different.
Just sayin'! Engineers are not the only ones who value accuracy!
OleDoc: Glad to see there are more chemists on here.
I really enjoy the 1/2 inch of herbed well done one the outside.
Retired Lubricant Chemist
Just stick it in the middle. Look to see how long your probe is and check the diameter of our roast. Take note of where on the probe you should stop when shoving it in (it should go in about the same distance as the radius). Now find the mid point of the length of the roast and push that probe in. If you think of the roast as a cylinder, it should go in at the middle of the long side (not the caps). Don't worry about juices leaking out - it's just one small hole, there are plenty of juices in the roast.
:) Well after looking at countless ways to roast a beast for tomorrows Christmas dinner, I am happy to finally settle on the low & slow style. Have always done it the really high temp burst then lower for the duration. The low and slow does logically make sense to me, especially fpor having a nice slice with consistent color throughout... I am on the way to go and secure a quality temp gauge doodad as recommended. Thanks for all of the great information. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
Well, I have cooked and devoured our Prime Rib. Anyone who DOES NOT cook this beautiful piece of meat low and slow is doing the meat and your guests a HUGE injustice!!!! I have cooked mine the same for years. Coat the meat in Olive Oil and then make a crust with your favorite herbs/spices. I'm simple, I use smoke flavored pepper first all over, then I rub the minced garlic all over it and then I encase it in Kosher salt. Truly locks in the juice and cooks to perfection every-time. You can leave the crust on for some and take it off for others, but the low and slow is the best. When I put the roast in the pan I also pour water into the pan to cover the entire pan. Most of it evaporates, but any good juice that comes out, does not burn. I also do sear it in the oven at 500 degrees for 15 minutes. I then turn down to 200 and let the oven work its magic. Now the BBQ is even better, but much more work as it is tough to regulate the heat (I use charcoal, the only way to BBQ). However indirect with some wood chips...YUMM!!!! Then take those juices from the meat in the pan and aafter you have carved and make a tasty gravy....:) Soooooooo good!
I am getting confused about how long to cook my PR. I want to do the 450 for 15 minutes, then how long (approx) before I start checking for the internal temp? I would like mine to be med rare?
Thanks so much
Cook the Prime Rib at 450-500 for 15 minutes.....immediately turn it down to 200. If you go this route you will need to give yourself 5-8 hours depending on your roast size. Roughly 1 hr per pound bone in. Do not let the internal temp. go past 140. Let it rest 10 minutes and carve away and enjoy...... :)
I have used this slow cook method several times with my pellet grill which can keep the temp ~ 190 degree F. It is variable and has a temp readout so is very easy to regulate. This always results in a GREAT rib roast, ( we usually buy a whole roast cyrogenically packed from COSTCO). We have also bought the peeled tenderloin and smoked it slowly after searing and rolling in spices. The mesquite flavor from the smoker has the guests going out and buying a smoker just like mine!!
OK, I admit it, I am an engineer with a new toy--a Weber gas BBQ with an infrared burner and an EZ-Que rotisserie basket to avoid piercing the roast. Yesterday, after spending $200 on 12 pounds of free-range PRIME, prime rib roast at Whole Paycheck, I decided to use the IR burner to establish a 200 degree temperature inside the lid. It worked great--lowest setting on the gas input was perfect.
I put in the room-temperature roast in the basket over 1" of water and after an hour, noticed the outside of roast had developed a nice char, almost like the temperature inside was 450, instead of 200. No problem with the hood thermometer, it's accurate. About that time, I realized that the surface temperature of the meat was likely MUCH hotter than 200 F due to radiant heat transfer, instead of convection.
Turning off the IR burner and turning on one conventional bottom at the bottom right, I reestablished 200 degrees inside. Fortunately, my brief experiment with the IR burner did not result in a $200 disaster. Lesson learned: don't try to get fancy, stick with what has been used in the past. The roast was perfect after removing it with a Thermapen-checked internal temperature of 130 F--uniformly pink throughout. Yum!
I followed Chu's given instructions, minus the searing, adding a simple rub of kosher salt and cracked black pepper. My small rib roast (4 pounds) cooked to 140 F in exactly 3 hours, and after "collecting itself" for about 35 minutes, while the Yorkshire Pudding cooked, was beautifully uniform, tender, and flavorful. I let the roast come to room temperature before roasting, which meant that the cooking process got started right away.
Our beef comes from a small herd that is grass fed; all cuts are packaged in 6 mm shrink-wrapped plastic, so airtight. Because of the leaner animal, we expected the rib roast to be less tender, but this method was as easy and delicious as a conventional rib roast ordered from a reputable chef. (My only complaint was the lack of drippings/rendered fat from our roast, which seemed to be a result of its happy mountain lifestyle.)
Thanks, Michael, for the recipe!
Ibidum! Just for the record, I was the author of the paragraph in the Wikipedia entry for the Maillard Reaction that contests the role of the sugars in the browning of meats. I did a Google search and I see that a lot of people have picked up on it! That's great!
I found one discussion that raised the question about glycogen content in the meat muscle. I can answer that: When the beast is slaughtered, blood is drained, oxygenation of the muscle tissue ceases, and all of the glycogen is converted to glucose for anaerobic metabolism. The glucose stores from the glycogen breakdown are rapidly metabolized to lactic acid.
Furthermore, white meat (from muscles that are not used extensively - chickens don't fly very much and pigs are lazy!) contains less myoglobin and MORE glycogen! That's because white muscle relies on anaerobic metabolism (conversion of glucose to lactic acid). Red meat contains MORE myoglobin and LESS glycogen because it relies more on aerobic metabolism to produce energy.
So, again you see a correlation. White meat should contain more residual sugar than dark meat - but it browns less! Dark meat contains more myoglobin and less sugar, but it browns MORE!
I don't know how the myth about the Maillard Reaction got incorporated into meat browning, but it is obviously wrong.
I need an engineer to explain exactly how carry over occurs please.
I just cooked a 14.75 lb rib roast at 180F for 6 hours to an internal temp of 120F. I expected very little carry over increase from what I read above here and from other sources. What I got was a 10 degree increase to 130F. The meat was uniformly medium rare inside, perfect, but it seems to me that carry over is much more dependent on the mass of the roast than any gradient of the internal temperature since smaller roasts cooked at high temperatures don't gain 10 degrees outside of the oven, at least in my experience.
your intuition is spot on - carry over is generated by the BTU stored in "the temperature gradient" - the bigger the diameter, the more mass involved in becoming a gradient, the more absolute BTU 'stored' for carryover.
a larger diameter roast has more mass involved in the outside to inside gradient to store more absolute heat energy - that 'stored' heat energy dissipates to the outside and to the inside. but the outside surface area does not increase linearly to the inside mass as diameter increases.
a larger roast will conduct proportionally more heat from the higher temp mass to the cooler interior than a smaller roast - the balance being lost 'to the outside'
anyway I can confirm your observation that smaller roasts exhibit less carry over cooking than larger ones.
Just wanted to post my take on this. 17.9lb 7-bone niman ranch standing rib roast ... I used a crust from Tyler Florence... preheated the oven to the max (500F, although my separate oven thermometer read about 465F, wouldn't budge higher). I let the meat come to about 42F, blasted it for 7 minutes, then set the oven to 200F and opened the door until the temperature on the oven thermometer came down to about 275. after I closed the door the temp dropped pretty quickly to 200. I used a probe thermometer and recorded the temp every 15 minutes. After 2 hours, my pretty little excel graph showed me I was going to be almost an hour early, so I dropped the temp to 190. When I was at 118 and now a little behind on the clock, I put it back to 205. For whatever reason, the roast ended up staying at 126 for about 15 minutes before I ticked up to 128. when I took it out, a guest who is a sous chef of a semi-famous restaurant in San Francisco insisted that I let it rest for 30 minutes, which was just enough time to get the oven hot enough for the Yorkshire Pudding as well as heat the prev made gratin. I didn't keep the thermom in the meat as it rested so I'm not sure what the final temp was.
bring roast to 42F time from fridge: 95 minutes
cook at oven temp 465F: 7 minutes
cool oven to 275F: 3 minutes
cook roast to 128F: 6 hours 10 minutes
rest: 30 minutes
Thanks for the recipe and discussion!
Okay, time for my update......I did the two Ribeye roasts for Christmas Day with a slight variation. My bro-in-law is in the wholesale food industry and when I told him about this method, he gave me "HIS" method of doing Prime Rib, so I fused the two together.....I set the oven probe temp to 138 degrees and set the convection roast feature of my oven to 225 degrees....25 less than what he told me to set it at, but 25 higher than Mr. Chu's method. It all worked out & he couldn't stop "OOO-AAHing" about how well it turned out. I rubbed coarse Sea Salt & course Black pepper into both roasts for seasoning and let them stand @ room temp. for a couple of hours.....Put the roasts in @ 9 am and they were done @ 12:45 pm. They both had a nice brown crust on them w/o searing, and I had a pot of boiling Au 'ju (sp?) on the stove top to finish some of the roast to a "more done" cooking for the kids & others who were not into Med. Rare.....Perfect! The leftovers made great sandwiches later that day.....Thanks for all your help here!
I appreciate a right to the point, quick access and totally understandable solution. This turned out great and I appreciate the post !
Thank you Mr. Chu
...Cook a roast weighting 1 stone for 45 mins/lbs at 122C .......
No problem! clear as can be!
Followed this recipe for an 8.5 lb rib roast this weekend. I browned it on the BBQ grill to save splattering up the stove before company arrived. It took 3.5 hours to reach 130 degrees. We found that this was at the rare end of medium rare. We placed the slices back in the oven for 10 minutes, watching them the whole while. They did not brown up or dry out but they turned the perfect pink that we were looking for. The roast had nice marbling to begin with and this method kept it moist and very tender. The best part was there was only a thin coat of browned roast, maybe 1/8 inch and the rest was evenly cooked to the desired degree of doneness....Not just done in the center.
Hi, I've eaten a lot of good prime rib in my days. I have eaten it all over the country and about half of the world. Believe me, in the corporate world, you get to eat a lot of Prime Rib. I just thought that I would pass onto your readers, that the Best Prime Rib that I have ever eaten, in my entire life was at a place in the Carolinas, near Asheville, The name of the place was "Kutchie's Key West Cafe'," That prime rib would melt in your mouth. It was also the most flavorful prime rib that I have ever tasted. I could cut it with my fork. And that's no bull.
The very nice "Babe" that was serving our table, told us that the owner "Kutchie Pelaez" only uses "certified black angus western prime beef", not just for his prime rib, but for his steaks. That he even grinds it for his world famous cheese burgers, called the "goody goody, the cheese burger in paradise." I might try one of those the next time we are in Carolina but I don't think-so. That prime rib would be very hard to beet. That young lady told us that Mr. Pelaez was a beef expert and that he age all his beef on premises n his own storage facilities. I told her I was very impressed and the proof was in the pudding and that was the finest prime rib that I have ever eaten. A great baked potato, a fresh garden salad. Top all that off with "The Best Key Lime Pie in the World" and you've just eaten better that a 10-star dinner. Oh and the Island Drinks that this place servers are second to none, they will knock you on your ass if you are not careful, no watered down drinks at Kutchie's Place. Just the Best Damn Food and Drinks you can get anywhere in the world.
.....Terri Moran,....Los Vegas
I've wanted to cook a large roast for a long time. I originally thought that the 45 minute/lb would work...but after much reading, I figured out that the time would be anywhere between 5 and 6 hours.
I don't like the high heat/slow cook method, so I went with a straight up 210 degree (F) oven for the hole time.
I let the roast stand overnight in it's cryo-pack and when I put it in the oven, it was at an internal temp of 69 degree F. I started the roast at 12:30 pm at 210 degree F. The roast was at 131 degrees at 4:45 pm. I turned the oven down to 170 degrees to slow it down, and ended up turning it off around 5:30 when the internal temp was around 135. It went up to 136 in the oven that was turned off over the next 20-30 minutes.
I pulled it out and started carving a around 6:00 pm....to VERY awesom results. The whole rost was perfectly medium rare. The very center was medium rare to rare....
It was the first time I had cooked a whole rib roast...and I would do it the same in a heart beat.
I think the biggest difference in cook time is made by how much time it is allowed to come to room temp. If you take it out of the fridge at 45 degrees, it will take closer to 6 hours. If you let is sit overnight as I did - I think the target time is much closer to five hours.
BTW - this is the BEST page for information and discussion about baking, broiling, smoking, and just plain cooking a rib roast (prime rib) that I hav EVER come across.
I'm not an engineer but I'm always game to try new and interesting methods.
My roast is dry ageing as I type this, at the end of day 2. I'm giving it another 24 hours. The only variation is that I wrapped it loosely in cheesecloth as per the instructions on another site. It still smells good - the wrap gets changed daily. I'm going to sear it on the BBQ to save the splatter on my stove-top and then roast it as per your instructions.
To all those people who complained about the units used, quit being so silly. Use a calculator if you can't convert the numbers in your head.
Every Christmas dinner for the family (in Laws) for years - warm cracked peppercorns in pan, when fragrent mix in some kosher salt and rub roast and let stand to bring to room temperature. When ready put in 210 degree oven w/probe set to alert at 113 degrees. When alarm goes off, I remove roast and cover w/ foil. I bring oven up to 450 degrees and when ready I reset probe alarm to 122 and put roast back in then promptly remove when alarm goes off. It puts that wonderful carmalized crust on roast but accomplishes the goal of medium rare all the way thru center to edge as I let it rest and in about 18-21 minutes it always comes up to 130 and then I slice and serve!! AWESOME!
quick reminder , check your cooking appliance for the working tempreture. Calibrate accordingly. happy holidays
I plan on using a 200F oven to cook a 10lb PRR to the desired 115F (we all like it rare) then turning up the oven to 500F (letting the meat rest) and then putting it back in the oven to create the crust.
One question though-
When I take the meat out the first time once it reaches 115F, many say to wrap it in foil, let it rest for 30 minutes, then return it to the 500F oven for about 10 minutes. Do I return it to the oven with the foil on or off?
Seems like it wouldn't crust well with the foil left on, but I never see instructions that say to remove the foil.
cover / foil _off_
your instinct is absolutely correct - creating a crust under foil is not going to happen....
After the meal has taken place, I like to cut the leftover prime rib into steaks and vacuum pack them in individual servings and put in freezer.
When the need for a good meal hits you, you take one of them out and let it thaw, heat up a package of ajus mix and put the steak inside the ajus to heat it up. It comes out tender and moist just like when you made it and didn't take much time.
I tried cooking two 5lbs slabs at 200F but with convection. It was a tad more well-done than I like after 4 hours. I tested after 4 hours since I estimated it will arrive at 130F in about 5 hours. My timing was off because of the convection factor. Next time I'll probe after 3 hours.
It's a good idea to have the butcher debone and tie back the bones. In that slit I insert pepper corns and garlic slices. This adds a really nice flavor to the meat. Thank you.
Here is data on internal temp of an eight pound rib roast (four bone, loin end). The first column is minutes and the second is the internal temp. I removed it at 128 deg F and provided a perfect Medium Rare roast. I pulled it out for 20 minutes as indicated below to use the oven for something else. Total time in the oven was 250 minutes. Tod C
35 48 pulled out
78 68 back in
Well it is time to fire up the oven,I have an electronic probe this year we will see how it works,as opposed to my dial thermometer which was calibrated every 5 F. I still like the >3/8" browned outside, so will cook at max oven temp for 20 or so minutes then take roast out while the oven door is open and cooling down to around 200.
I love you.
Thank you for your site. It is the most useful site on the Internet, hands down.
1. I read on another website a recommendation to not use salt, pepper or anything else on the outer surface, so I tried it. The meat tasted fine. I added a little salt to taste as I ate it.
2. I also decided to see what happens with no searing in pan or oven. I thought it tasted fine. Don't be afraid to try it with no rub or sear. I have had "crusty" prime rib that was good, but the unadulterated prime rib flavor and texture is a nice change.
3. I took my 9 lb. roast out of the fridge 45 minutes before it went in the oven. That amount of time was not anywhere near enough to let it warm up, but it didn't matter. Temp was 38 F when it went in.
4. Cooking time here at approximately 5300' above sea level was 5 hours 35 minutes to 130 F. Out to rest for 30 minutes, it picked up 5 degrees of carry-over to end at 135 F. Medium rare edge to edge. I will probably give it maybe 2 more degrees next time, just a little firmer and a lighter pink would be nice.
5. I had to set my oven at 210 to get the temperature to average 200, and it was more stable when I set it to 215 which averaged 205. A good oven thermometer in addition to the probe thermometer is essential. If I had believed my 200-degree oven setting, I would have actually been cooking it at 190. Then I read some articles about how inaccurate oven thermostats are, especially at lower temperatures. Will probably try a little higher temp, maybe a measured average of 235.
Overall, the slow, low temp roast is the way to go, thanks Michael. My only disappointment was that the meat wasn't as warm on the plate and in my mouth as I am accustomed to at a good restaurant. Must be those heat lamps and such. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to have the serving temp higher without turning it into medium or well done shoe leather?
Warm your plates in the oven prior to service. That will keep the prime rib warmer longer as you eat it. Make sure the plate is hot but not over 130F-140F or else it could continue to cook the meat. 160F might even be okay, but really hot plates (some restaurants serve on > 300F!) will just cook your meat at the table and that's not what we want when you've spent so much time and effort preparing the roast.
I am planning on having rib-eye roast for Xmas dinner. I bought two boneless roasts; one is 8 lbs. while the second is 7 lbs. This year, I am planning to use the low temp (200 degrees) method in a convection oven. This causes me to have to ask several questions. Each roast is about 10 inches long; eight inches wide; and probably averages about 3.5 inches thick. Should each be tied to form a log or left as is? Since both will be roasted at the same time in the same oven, and not touching each other, do you treat them as though they were one roast for calculating length of time to roast. Unless I hear otherwise, I will roast about 4.5 hrs at 200 degrees. In summary: should I tie or not? Is 4.5 hours about correct for 130 degrees internal before resting?
Thanks for any response.
you can probably get away without tying them - but they will be easier to handle and likely 'prettier' if you do. if there is a fair amount of fat between the muscle groups tying would keep them from falling apart.
time sounds about right - check after 2 hrs then every 30 min or so - adjust temp as needed.
Thanks Dilbert. I shall take your recommendations.
One point that hasn't been mentioned yet is the effect of low temperature cooking on enzymatic activity. Aging meat, either wet or dry, allows enzymes to act at low temperatures, further tenderizing the meat. However, enzmes have different optimum temperature ranges. By bringing up the internal meat temperature slowly it allows for all the enzmes to work at their optimum temperature range. Once the internal temperature of the meat reaches 40 C (104 F), most of the enzymes will denature. So the higher temperatures you cook the meat, the less time the enzymes will be working in their optimum range.
I use both dry-aging and low temperature cooking to achieve maximum tenderness and flavor. I also suggest dry-aging for at least a week (keeping in mind the meat you get from the grocery store has already been wet aged for about a week). And yes, I dry-age in my refrigerator although it is an extra one with no other food items in it (except of course for microbrews and canned Cougar Gold cheese).
I decided to check my oven temp this year, wow if I set it to 200 F then it runs up over 250,then won't go on until well below 200 F. Temp control is not good and it has electronic control. So I suggest everyone get an oven thermometer so you can see what is actually going on. Then of course you should check the oven thermometer to see if it is anywhere near accurate.
Jack: I did two roasts last year, my comment is that you have to treat them as two different roasts.they will achieve temperature at different rates.
I purchased a pre-cooked prime rib back in July that I'm planning on making for XMas dinner. It came vacume sealed frozen in a plastic bag. The supplier said to take it out of the bag, put it in a pan covered with foil at 350 and start with 10-15 minutes. However, I'm afraid 350 will cook it further so I think I'm going to try the pouch method listed here. I plan to bring it to room temperature then submerge in hot water and leave it in the pouch it's already in. I have two questions. When I take it out of the water bath, do I need to also let it rest for a while? Secondly, for what we don't eat, can I reheat slices with the same method or with the lettuce method or can I not reheat it again? Any advice would be welcome.
cooking in the pouch in a warm-to-hot water bath is aka "sous vide"
more detail on the method here:
it's not quite clear from your post if the whole roast is frozen or if it has been sliced and slices individually pouched - sounds like the whole roast is in one bag. hopefully it's well on it's way to thawed at this point in time.
personally I'd be tempted to thaw & then allow the whole roast to come to room temp - then in the oven at 250'F to re-heat - check the internal temp with thermometer after 30 minutes or so.
reheating it - by any method - such that the internal temp goes over the 130'F (rare - 135F medium rare) will indeed "cook" it further. the sous vide method uses water temp as essentially the "final desired temp" and is less likely to overcook the roast but see the thread because maintaining the water temp without some gadgets / special gear is tricky. be aware - sous vide is _not_ a fast cooking method - it will take some time to slowly reheat the entire roast. might want to consider slicing it first then seal in a bag.
left overs I slice and re-heat in a fry/saute pan with liberal juice - yes they do go a bit browner than rare....
"the lettuce method" hmmm, looks like the spell checker got the best of that one - no sure I follow the lettuce (g)
Yes the whole roast has been pre-cooked and frozen and yes it's de-thawing now. Some people suggested for reheating slices to place romaine lettuce over the slices and reheat in the oven. I'm less concerned with the time it takes as long as I don't overcook the thing. The supplier said he left it in the bag and put the whole thing in the microwave one time for 7 minutes but I'm not sure I want to try that. Possibly if I just bring it to room temperature and slice it and pour hot jus over it it would work just as well. Thanks
I would not put a dang decent slice of prime rib in a microwave for nuttin' - ever.
lettuce as a 'cover' - interesting, not run across that 'technique'
if you can get the slices completely thawed and thence to 'room temp' - a liberal drowning of hot a'jus will probably get you real close.
the bottom line is pretty simple - doing the roast from scratch produces a chunk of meat hotter on the outside and cooler to the center. difficult to replicate that effect precisely in a reheat situation without over cooking some/all portion of the roast - but if the meat was a good chunk to start with and properly roasting to second with, it's a good bet you'll get a sumptuous cut out of it.
Is there a way to make yorkshire pudding without filling the house with smoke? I really like it, but we're a bunch of non smokers. Sorry, bad joke. :(
When I make mine in the oven, there's little to no smoke.
I didn't get past the first sentence, which is completely wrong. The word "prime" in prime rib does not and never has referred to the USDA prime grade meat. As anyone who knows anything about cuts of meat should know, prime rib is so named because it is cut from the primal section of the carcass.
I have always cooked my roast in the oven but never in a roaster oven before. I was told that you can do it. So I have looked on the Internet and found nothing. I want to start the roast in the morning and eat it by 5p.m. today and I would like to get some good advice on how this could be done. This makes me very nervous about doing it this way but it would be nice to use my regular oven for other things that need to be cooked at the same time. Hopefully you have some good advise on how to prepare this beatiful roast so I don't ruin a good roast.
Lulu from Wisconsin
Help! I have read through all the posts. I couldn't find anyone with two different sized roasts. So I have been given a 5 lbs and a 7.5 lbs prime rib roast to prepare. Last year a 10 lbs roast came out perfect using this web site.
BUT, how do I figure two dissimilar sized roasts. I am thinking put both in at the same time, after approximately 3.5 hours (pending internal temp), pull the smaller one and let it sit till the larger finishes obtaining the temp (maybe another 1 hour) then raise the oven to 500 and blast both for 10 minutes.
I have two temperature probes so I can watch each one.
Thanks... a juggling Christmas Eve chef.[/b]
Why post the negativity? It is quite obvious that the vast majority of folks who visit the site either get answers to questions they have, or provide answers - based on their knowledge and/or experience.
Lighten up... and Merry Christmas!
>>I have been given a 5 lbs and a 7.5 lbs prime rib roast
with that much difference they will finish at different times.
actually, could work in your favor depending on circumstances - if people will be eating over some period of time, you could start the little one half hour after the first - it would be finished / hot / warm 'later' as well
Great site! I'm making a standing rib roast and bringing it to a family members' home; however, they live about an hour away. Can I partially cook the roast and finish it later at their home? Thank you!
Best to cook it to your desired doneness and then warm it at their home. It will be sort of the same as partially cooking it, but without having to worry about hitting a precise temperature at the other person's home. See, if you cook it at home to 135F, then travel an hour and the temp drops to 100 or 110F, you can reheat in their oven set to the lowest possible temp (usually 170F) for 30-45 min and the roast should be still less than 135F, but plenty warm enough to eat. If you partially cook the roast at home to 110F intending to finish cooking later, by the time you reach the other house it might have cooled to 80-90F, then you have to cook it so that the interior hits 135F which will take longer and might not be convenient.
Something else I should probably mention is that if you do cook the roast to 135F, that is a sufficiently high temperature to kill the most common food borne pathogens so long as the temperature is held there for 40 min or longer. (This isn't usually a problem since a rib roast is quite large and when we cook it in the method outlined above, once the internal temperature reaches 135F, it will stay there for 45 min to an hour before dropping a noticeable amount.) Once below 130F, bacteria can grow again but most of the roast will be bacteria free (since it was held at 135F for over 40 min.), so you should be okay to hold the roast at sub 130F temperatures as you drive to your destination for at most four hours. Try to get the roast back up to 130F or higher within four hours or consume it to avoid pathogen risk for the immune compromised.
I grew up on rare roast beef, but we have kids and a guest who like theirs medium-well done. Sacrebleu!
My roast is 7.7 lbs. 3 rib, about 6 1/2" long
I would hate to do it, but should I carve a third off, making a 5 lb roast and a 2lb steak and roast them at the same time?
I'm wary of using a higher heat method. The ends don't come out all that much more well done.
I'm inclined to go for medium and suffer the consequences but leftovers need to be rare.
What to do?
I have this problem all the time - family / guest who want "well done" -
generally I've had better luck pulling the roast at the "optimum" rare/med rare stage, cut off a chunk and put it back in the oven at higher temp for a few minutes.
your mileage may vary . . .
I cook my roast medium-rare and then when serving, slice the serving that needs a little more cooking and place it on a heated pan briefly (while slicing the other servings) until it reaches the desired doneness. It also works well with a little heated jus in the pan to keep the "look" (not accidentally searing the cut surface).
Here was my experience...much of it driven by the need to get some sleep:
Prepared full 18 lb rib roast the night before, but had to cut off 3 lbs (one rib) in order to fit it into the roasting pan. Got up at 3am to remove it from the fridge so it could get to room temperature by 6am. Got up at 5:30am to turn on oven at 450F. Got up again at 6am to put it in the oven and immediately lowered temp to 200F. Slept till 9am.
As measured by two thermometers, the oven maintained about 225 deg the entire time. I did not use the convection setting. At 10:20 the internal thermometer measured 115-120F depending upon where it was probed. I removed it. The results were wonderful.
My only comment was that I thought it would take much longer. I was planning on it being done around noon or 1pm. So I guess I could have gotten more sleep if I had known the cooking time was going to be much less than some had speculated. Next time I will plan on only 4.5 hours of cooking time.
Great site...thanks....and yes, I am an engineer.
I've been meaning to publish a new prime rib article with a full explanation of cooking times. The old, traditional method of estimating time by multiplying some factor against weight just doesn't work with a rib roast. In fact, for large roasts, the cooking time is almost of the same regardless of weight (10-16 pounds all take about the same amount of time in the same oven). This is because the surface area of the roast increases almost proportionally to the weight. When cooking a turkey, when the weight doubles, the surface area does not, so cooking time must be extended and the easiest way to represent that is by taking the weight and multiplying it by some amount of time. If you think about it though, there's really no shape of roast or type of meat where such a linear relationship could possibly ever work at accurately predicting cooking time.
This is my first post here.
I was searching for a roasting calculator and everyone I found sucked. (You can't select both weight and temp)
I read this a few years back in Cooks Illustrated and found it online today:
It goes into scientific detail as to why the meat should be cooked at 250F and then finished at 500F. Well worth the reading. I really like their magazine because they not only do a lot of testing, but they tell you the scientific reasoning behind their discoveries.
I do most of my roasting on my smoker but I am roasting chuck roast for 150 persons on New Years Eve. (done right chuck roast is incredible) The cooking times that people posted here are a big help. THANK YOU ALL!!
Years ago working at a steak restaurant, for people wanting their meat overdone (a.k.a. more than medium), we would dip the pieces in hot au jus. The meat did not cook much more but appeared to. If they complain, ask them if they would like ketchup also... :P
almost forgot... at the restaurant Sundays were prep day. I made fajitas with left over prime rib for the crew... tequila, lime, cilantro
Everybody had some excelant input on how to prepare this dish. Seems to be from trial and error. All of the ideas for the seasoning were great. I want to say just a couple of things that I have found. Season the heck out of the outside of the meat. Don't be scared of overseasoning. Rubb your spices on and let the piece of meat set in the fridge. \ Do this the day before at least. The longer the better. I cover my meat. Let the meat set out till it reaches room temperature. Preheat the oven to 500% Put the meat on the rack with a pan underneath to catch the drippings for 10 minutes. Dropp the heat to 200% for about 2 hours. Get a meat thermometer. When it reaches 135% take it out and let set for about 30 minutes. You can't go wrong. While this is setting take the drippings and add a little whistercheshire, beef base, and the same wine that you will be serving with this meal. Let this reduce. This is your aujus. Enjoy.....
I disagree with the people who insist on a high temp followed by a low temp because I want it red all the way to the edge, not 1 inch or even 1/2 inch from the edge......200 degrees all the way results in red all the way. This year i will try quick browning in a pan, but if it results in less red I will not repeat.
My other point is that we are only two people so in years past I have done a 1 lb 13 oz without ribs and this takes only 1 hour to get to 110 degrees (I cooked a few min more to get get to 125). My point is this is less than 45 min per pound. So I think the 45 min per pound for less than 5 lbs should be corrected for very small roasts (and,yes, I know it is better with a big roast but I have no choice and I have had excellent results with two person roasts as long as you follow the 200 degree rule). In a few minutes I will do a 1 rib roast (with bone) that weighs 2 lbs 3 oz. I am estimating about 1 hour and 15 min. Both start at room temp.
I did chuck roast (roasted for 150 on New Year's eve. 4 roast between 30 and forty pounds a piece. ($2.48/lb) They took approximately 5 hours using the method I mentioned above. Wow... awesome!! Raving reviews and several people thought it was prime rib!!
My staff cut the pieces just under 1/2" thick, however the roast is so large, most guests took only half a piece. (something to note for next time.)
We tried cooking standing rib roast only a few times before, becasue they always came out med-well on the outside with only a few pieces inside to OUR liking (rare to med-rare).
Found this site last year, standing rib roasts were on sale and tried it -- used someone else's crust idea but THIS is the PERFECT rare to med-rare ALL the way through!! Hooked and Thank you SO much!
This year on sale before Christmas I bought a 6.45 lb one and thawed it out and left to "age" the last few days in fridge. Today let it warm up, on the counter for about 2 hours (then had to wash it because one of our cats decided to "pre-taste" it!!! :shock: ).
Made my own rub (olve oil, garlic chopped pieced, salt & whole peppercorns in blender)... coated and seared it... got my oven to 220 and have just put it in -- We can't WAIT to have our 2nd best meal since I found this website!
Thank you for making it EASY to make the purrrrfect standing rib roast
......Like Einstein, this ended up perfect. Thanks for the pointers.
Fantasy Football winnings enabled the 13lb boneless rib roast, this year.
Got a couple days in the fridge, cut that off. 1pm in the 200 F oven after searing in olive oil, rub, fresh rosemary and oregano. NOTE: thick rubber gloves like from the rotisserie work affirmatively whilst searing.
Probe thermometer got me 120 to 135 parts, skinny side was 135, popped it out and wrapped the roasting pan with foil - put it on the buffet (beer pong table) and let it rest while the last guest arrived, used some juice with some bullion (forgot the broth) and worked out alright enough.
Overall results were 99% exactly like the 2nd photograph of end results at the top of this post. Pink throughout, pure delight.
Thanks, live long and prosper!
If one has a 5 Kilo pork butt with an internal temperature of 69 C in a pit barbeque with a steady temperature of 108 C how could one calculate the length of time to get the pork to an internal temperature of 90.6 C?
Is there a rough way to approximate this?
>>Is there a rough way to approximate this?
yes. it's done.
if the pork is at 69'C=152'F internal - it's done.
not sure why one would want to cook pork to an internal temp of 90.6'C=195.1'F - not recommended.
What is the differance between a Prime Ribeye Lip-On 2 x 2 roast and a Prime Rib Roast.
Can I cook them the same way and will the ribeye roast be as good as the Prime Rib.
My wife gets the Ribeye roast from work and we always cut them into steaks.
Thank you for any help
the names of cuts is only sorta semi partially "standard"
so one really must look at the cow and where the cut is coming from.
ye olde rib roast - there's a couple hundred thousand opinions about whether the best meat comes from the large / front - middle - or small / rear part of the roast.
if you look at the roast, depending on trim, it will have several distinct chunks of muscle group(s).
there's a chunk along the spine to the dorsal side often called "chain meat"
the 2-3 major chunks in the rib roast - slice up a rib roast and you'll get a steak often called "Delmonico" or "rib eye"
"lip on" - dunno. potentially refers to the small muscle/fat portion at the very bottom of the rib.
"2x2" = nadda clue. if your butcher can translate the local naming to something more specific, might be able to decipher what it means.
"prime rib roast" - has _zero_ to do with USDA meat grade of "Prime"
it's a rib roast, standing rib roast, couple dozen more names for it....
Great site and great instructions! Have used method for years, also with inspiration from Cook's mag. If your 7-rib roast is too big for stove-top searing, preheat oven to 500. When nicely browned (watch closely), REMOVE FROM OVEN and allow oven temp to come down to 200. Then follow the engineer's instructions. I have a very small oven, so I must cook mine well ahead of time to finish turkey, mac and cheese, etc. NO PROBLEM! Let the roast sit until ready to serve. Slice "to order", and reheat quickly in a saute' pan in about 1/2" of au jus. Done properly, only the very outside of slice will turn color and the meat will still be medium rare.
ABOUT AU JUS: My family loves au jus and there never seems to be enough. Take your favorite store-bought beef stock and reduce by 1/3 over medium-low heat with some of the drippings. This will give a rich but not overpowering au jus. Hope these tips help!
I have been cooking prime rib for years using an alternate method with a good result, but may try your method this year to avoid a tiny bit of brown edge.
At any rate IF you are cooking the high heat/low heat method it is important to open the oven door, and let the oven cool down (I use 250 usually)...If you JUST lower the oven temp, without opening the door to cool down to 250, your prime will be cooking at the higher heat for quite some time...
so for those who have some guests who like it a little (key word being little as this way mostly comes out med rare throughout, with slightly more cooked on the exterior pieces) but you like yours med rare, I suggest the following: roast for 15 min @ 500, then open oven door until oven is 250 degrees, then put your roast back in and cook 10-15 min/lb @ 250...Let it rest for 20-30 min after coming out of oven so the juices absorb back into the meat.
I think I may give your 200 throughout a shot as just cooking for hubby and myself, we consider it a sacriledge to cook any beef more than med rare....enjoy
I've experimented with various methods over the years but do find slow roasting produces a more even doneness if this is what you are aiming for. I do tend to panick in the last hour that the meat will not be 'done' at meal time but force myself to trust that it will.
I've been using a compromise (lazy) method the last few times of seasoning the usually 7 to 8 pound roast with garlic, salt and thyme, drizzling with olive oil and convection roasting at 240'F (115'C). I find it is at 135' (58) after 3 to 3 1/2 hours and reaches 140 (60) medium rare after standing covered for 30 minutes. I insert the thermometer mid way in the bake cycle so as to avoid transferring any surface bacteria inside the roast.
We've always preferred the term "Slab O Beef", but to each their own. I have used a 250 oven in the past, but will try a 200 one this year. The key to timing is that the larger roasts will require less time per pound. There is no one-size-fits-all approach that will allow you to calculate minutes per pound. It's a sliding scale, so keep notes.
I like to sear roasts on the barbeque grill (gas), I preheat to max temp,
then sear as wanted, usually about 2 + min per side / area until all sides are seared to desired level. Then transfer to preheated 200 degree oven to finish. The higher heat of the hot grill sears quickly and creates a nice bark. Side benfit is the grill surface is large so any sized roast will fit with all surfaces getting a sear and the smoke from the high heat sear is outside not smoking up the house. A couple of soaked mesquite chips on a piece of foil in the back of the grill can add a nice dimension. ( want it to be very subtle )
My wife and I have cooked small and large standing rib roasts for over 20 years during the holidays. By the measure of small, I refer to 7-8 lbs, and by large, 16-18 lbs. One must take into consideration the size of the roast and act timely/accordingly to it's mass. A small roast gives much less leeway as to perfection. A large roast will give everyone at the table much more ability to perfect their slice to their individual taste. I try to have my end result (after resting) no more than 134F. This involves anticipating the rate of climb after rest. The hotter the oven, the higher the climb relative the size. No matter what is said ANYWHERE, if you cook a standing rib to no more than 134F (after rest), you can always have a iron skillet on the stove with some near boiling, properly seasoned au jus sauce, you can always dip the slice into the pan for approximately 15-30 seconds per side and make even the most pink-meated fearful person happy at your table, as they will have a slice that is dripping with flavour and a color to match their palate. As a footnote, I try to purposely undercook my roasts just for the purpose of re-heating another day in a saucepan with hot au jus. This turns out to be a perfect manner in which to re-heat and re-live the enjoyment.
Read just about all of this string, quite a few years of good stuff! Looking forward to attempting the techniques described, and most importantly, choosing 200 degrees fahrenheit for the majority of the cooking process.
My question is above -- should I go in convection mode? Not sure of the pros and/or cons of doing so. Many thanks
I don't recommend / use the convection mode - I think the increased air circulation tends to dry the meat.
Another year, another visit to CfE to get the prime rib recipe. I only cook prime rib once a year on Christmas so I always have to come back here to refresh my memory. I follow it to the letter and it always comes out perfect. Just like the recipe says, you get perfectly cooked meat from the bone to the outside.
I wanted to comment about size. It's just me and my daughter so I don't need a large roast, and I don't have a butcher nearby so I rely on the supermarket. I never buy it by size. I learned from watching Julia Child to look at the eye to get it closer to the loin and that's what I look for. Supermarkets don't usually have huge roasts anyway, so I pick the best from what's in the case. I go to the store expecting to spend a lot, but that's OK because it's Christmas. Some years the best one was 4 ribs and I bought that. One year it was a 1 rib roast, but it was absolutely perfect so I bought that. This year I got a 2 rib roast.
No matter what size I get, I cook it according to this recipe and it always comes out perfect. I know some think smaller cuts should be cooked like a steak but I cook it like it's a roast. The only deviation I make from this recipe is that I don't sear it at all. I forgot that step one year and I couldn't tell the difference when it was done so I don't bother with that anymore. It still comes out perfect.
Even though I use supermarket cuts of meat, it still comes out better than what I've had in restaurants because this recipe does exactly what it says it will do: produce an evenly cooked roast that is medium rare from the bone to the outside.
Poor planning has led to a rush job on the 11.5 pound, 5-rib roast. I seasoned the beef the day before. However, I did not have time to let the rib come up to room temp. It has basically gone from the cooler into a 200 degree oven. Since the consensus here is that there is no way to successfully predict how long this will take, I'll update this post with the results. I am going to check the roast in exactly 3.5 hours. I want to pull it from the oven when the internal temp is 125 or so. I wish there was a way to time it so that I knew when to set the table! Dinner may be served anytime between 2:00 pm and 4:30 pm, ugh.
pc of graph paper, time vs temp - that'll put a very graphic representation of how fast the meat is coming up to temp.
hope it turns out well!
I have been visiting this site every Easter and Christmas since 2005 for a refresher course on cooking the best prime rib ever! Just wanted to say thanks for your site, your recipes, etc. . . Happy Holidays to you all!!
What great site. Over 5 years of discussion on one subject, I love it!
The method I use is similar, but just a little weird.
5-6 lb roast (3 rib) into a cast iron dutch oven (approx 11 in across the top) with about 1/2 in of rock salt in the bottom. 6 cloves of garlic (smashed & peeled) directly under the roast & then...fill the pan with rock salt. Yes folks, all the way up leaving only the very top (fat cap) of the roast exposed. 200 degrees F. for around 3-5 hours until done to your liking. Then brush the salt off the roast, let rest & dig in. No, it does not get too salty, the real drawback is that there is no jus to make a gravy with.
This works well for me, because I can take it out when it reaches 110-120 deg & transport it (pan, salt & roast) to another location. The cast iron & salt hold the heat so it finishes cooking on the way.
Merry Christmas! Followed the recipe exactly: seared and pink all the way through; used a boneless cut and it turned out great!
I have done prime rib using the tips I learned on this site for the last few years. This year I also read the serious eats tip on searing after the initial cook and rest period. While searing first also works pretty well, I think the end sear is best.
I got a beautiful roast from Ream's Elburn Market in Elburn IL
I took the 18.77 lb roast out of the fridge the night before and inserted some garlic slivers, and seasoned with my own rub, salt, garlic powder, pepper, a touch of cumin, and a bit of my BBQ rub.
I covered the roast with the wrapping paper, and a few towels, and let it rest to come up to room temp. The interior of the roast was 42F when I took it out, and was 53F when I was ready to start the roast around noon.
I set the oven at 200F, and roasted until the digital thermometer read 123F.
I covered and rested for about 45 Min while we made pop overs and some other veggies. The internal temp rose to about 128F.
We then cranked up the oven to 500F, and crusted the exterior for about 8 minutes.
Rested again for about 15 min, and Carved a perfectly Medium Rare roast.
All of the roasts I have made came out great, but this was the best. I am sold on the sear last method.
I've done that and the graph is not a straight line. Starts out flat and then curves up. Toward the final temp, it increases quite quickly.
This is only my second year of cooking a standing roast but now have a 2-0 record for perfect. This year it was a Kroger bought ~4.5lb, two rib roast, set on a thin wire grate, several inches off a thin aluminum drip pan, tented with aluminum foil most of the time, in the center of a conventional electric oven, targeting and generally hanging around 200F with temps varying from 190F-210F. I vacuum sealed and let it come to temperature in a pot with a little running water. Did not pan sear, just rubbed some rosemary/garlic seasoning all over it. Pulled it out with an internal temp of 127F, temp rose to 130F while broiling a mix of green beans and asparagus (stinky pee). Red almost to the point of looking rare all the way through and TENDER. Me, wife and 4yr old loved it. Surprisingly, there were hardly any drips in the drip pan, if any?
Did a 13lb one from Omaha steaks last year that ended up just a couple degrees warmer. I was so proud of myself that not only did I not mess it up, but it was that beautiful deep pink/red throughout. My dad asked for a pan, being as excited and busy as I was I didn't pay much attention to what he was about to do. He turned the griddle up to high, let it get good and hot, then stuck his half rib serving onto the pan. Not a touch and go, a full on cooked grey throughout :angry: He should have just asked for a cheap sirloin if that's how he wanted it!
I think I will slice some of today’s leftovers thin, lightly vacuum seal and heat in 120F ish water then make some aju sauce and hoagie roll sandwiches. I should have Prime rib more often.
This is [u:80c161e6f1]definitely[/u:80c161e6f1] the way to cook a rib roast.
Here is some data for a 4.7 pound, small-end, pasture-raised rib roast.
Ribs cut off, then tied back on after dry rub.
Prior evening liberally dry rub with Mario Batali's fantastic rub recipe: Ground, dry porcini mushrooms make this a "killer".
Put in fridge, uncovered on plate
Removed 9:00 a.m. and set on kitchen counter uncovered
Preheat oven to 200F, using oven thermo to get accurate. (Oven display said 210F.)
Set roast on rack in uncovered ceramic baking dish
Added 3/8" deep of chicken broth to dish (could use beef broth or water)
Inserted probe of high quality digital meat thermometer (cable connection) into center of roast
Put in oven approximately six hours after removing from fridge.
Cooking time and internal temp (F)...
0:00 -- 54
1:00 -- 72
12:20 -- 79
2:02 -- 102
2:36 -- 117
2:50 -- 122
Removed from oven. Covered with foil and let rest
3:30 -- 131
Sliced and served.
Mmmmm! Mmmm! Mmmm! PURR-fect medium rare with a wonderful crust from the rub.
A few observations ...
There were a couple of un-reformed "medium" diners. For the first time I used the "1-minute warm in just below boiling jus
" method. (Thanks to a tip on this forum.) Very slick! It made the slice look
"medium" although it really wasn't cooked significantly more done than the pink meet. Got rave reviews from the "medium" folks!
The porcini rub may be a bit too much flavor for some. In which case, scrape off the rub just before you place the roast in the oven.
For fantastic jus
, find the little containers of high-quality paste/gel (not
powdered!) base for "glace
" at better grocery stores. A $5 container makes a cup of traditional glace
. Blend and thin to taste with the drippings from the pan. (The stock or water in the bottom of the pan will have mostly evaporated and kept the drippings from burning.)
The product I mentioned in the previous post is Demi-Glace Gold "Classic French Demi-Glace ... Made with Veal and Beef Stock" by More Than Gourmet. 1.5 oz package was $4.69. Makes about 1 cup.
Awesome recipe thx my xmas dinner came out great!!!!!!!!!!!
So, bought a fantastic cut of Canadian Prime Angus Rib Roast. One rib, 1.02 kilos, family of 4. Thought I'd make a nice Sundays roast, invited mom and brother. Found this site, guy up there in the 2006 section added a mustard rub (minced garlic, mustard powder, prepared mustard, chili powder, no onion salt, switched prepared for dijon, added pepercorns). Running late, busy sunday. Got the roast out at 2:00, fine, dinner at 6. Roast on the bbq at 4:30 with olive oil and sea salt and fresh ground pepper, high heat. Sear 3 minutes a side. Looking GREAT! Smells fantastic! Into a roasting pan on a layer of onions, surrounded by potatoes and carrots. Into the oven at 4:30 @200 Fahrenheit. Darn, forgot to put the rub on. Out of oven rub on. Back in oven 5:00. 45 minute check. What the heck? Only 58 degrees? OK times getting late. Oven to 250 Fahrenheit. 30 minute check: 72 degrees. Something is NOT right. Oven too cold? What is going on? Oven to 350, kids are really cranky, wife wondering how much longer. I'm going crazy. 6:50 check: 95 degrees. I'm at a loss, mom and brother had to go. Time to Call in my wife for a second look. "hey, I didn't know you checked temp in Celsius" she says. WHAT! Oh man roast is now at 104, darn. That's just over 200, I hate well done, that's the whole reason for doing it myself and not putting it through my wife's leather making process. Anyways, long story longer, tasted OK, vegetables were good, meat was way overdone.
Lessons learned: when changing batteries in the digital thermometer, don't forget to reset to Fahrenheit to match the oven, or buy next oven with celsius only.
Just thought I'd share after getting all the above advice on my first roast experience.
[ouch] my sympathies!
I've done silly things like that - the most aggravating part is all along you have this nagging feeling 'something ain't right . . . '
Thanks for the recipe, I'm trying new dishes to cook. and this one caught my attention. tried it a couple of times it was hard to have the perfect crusty effect :angry: any ways still worked out fine :D
I review this site every year before I cook up a prime rib (I have done 5 large ones so far, a bigger one each time.) I am very thankful to all that have posted as the shared experiences make it less intimidating to tackle cooking an expensive piece of meat! I did a 20lb boneless prime rib roast on my weber genesis silver B gas rotisserie, my largest yet and it was amazing! I only used a single front burner almost on the lowest setting to hit that 220-ish mark and checked temps about once an hour until I started getting close to 130. I let it rest for about 30 minutes while I finished other items and carved the turkey that I had also made. It was a beautiful, even pink from end to end and I could not be happier! Can't wait until I cook the next one.
Costco Canada along with some other retailers has recently added a notice to almost all of their beef roasts and steaks stating that they have been mechanically tenderized or 'bladed' and recommends that they be cooked to an internal temperature of 160'F or 71'C. This follows a CBC consumer report on the meat retail industry showing that most cuts are processed in this way and may have surface bacteria transferred to the inside. As a person who had previously thought that cooking the outside of a cut above 160' would make it safe, this is disturbing to say the least. :angry:
I also was appalled to learn that Costco was mechanically tenderizing solid muscle beef cuts. Several customers in Edmonton contracted e-coli from consuming grilled Costco steaks, which we had hitherto considered of primo quality and a staple of our summer grilling menus.
From now on, I will be inquiring at all butcher counters if they use this totally unnecessary and unsafe practice, before I purchase. NO WAY do I want to cook steaks or roasts to 160F. I'd hate to have to substitute meatloaf for standing rib roast, but at least it won't be tough if cooked to well done.
I discovered this post several years ago and keep referring back. Thanks for keeping the web site up. This will be my 4th or 5th one. Each one has been perfect med. rare all the way through. This year Costco has "prime" available and I will be getting it to see if there is much difference. Cooking time is pretty spot on for me. Thanks.
Like many on this post, I am attempting my first bone-in rib roast for Christmas eve family dinner. Knowing I needed quantity, I bought a 19-lb one and all the info provided on this site have been helpful. 2 questions though: am I to have the oven 225-250 on roast or bake and is it easier to cut the roast in half, pre-cooking, to insure I can deliver med-rare and medium without a hassle? I'm not worried about presentation.
I did an office party dinner once for like 40 people - used multiple 10 lb roasts - I think it is a bit easier to manage than one large.
obviously having two roasts would make the medium/medium rare thing much easier - you can simply start one about an hour earlier than the medium rare.
it also depends on the projected quantity of each you may need - i.e. typically the ends of the roast are more medium than m-rare, to a depth of perhaps 3/4-1 inch. however if half the crowd wants medium, you'll need more medium than that.
I have learned a lot from this forum. This is i the third year that I have cooked using the low and slow method.
I got a nice 16lb roast from a local market (Elburn Market in Elburn, IL.)
I prepped the roast yesterday inserting garlic slivers in slits, rubbed with a bit of olive oil, and then salted it well.
I let the roast warm up from about 34 degrees F to about 46F by letting is sit covered in foil and some towels.
At about 12PM, I put it in the oven at 200F for the first 1.5 hours, and then turned the oven down to 190. At about 4:15 PM, the roast hit my target temp of 121F. I covered and let it rest until about 5PM, and then finished it in the oven at 500F.
It came out beautifully. Perfect Med Rare throughout. The crust had a really nice flavor.
I have done the sear first, and the sear last method, and I am sold on the sear last method. It seems to produce more even results, although both methods make a tasty roast.
BEST EVER RIB ROAST!!!
I did 2 choice 5-rib roasts (bones intact), 9.5 and 9.6 pounds trimmed, respectively. I dry aged them in my second fridge (rarely opened) on a flat rack over a 1/2 sheet pan, covered by a cotton cloth (t-shirt). I changed the shirt every other day; each roast lost ~1#. I covered each with a generous amount of kosher salt and fresh cracked black pepper and let them rest on the counter uncovered for 1 hour before roasting. Oven was at 200° (no convention fan), and they roasted for ~5.5 hours. Internal temperature each hour: started at 35, 43, 61, 82, 103, 122, and I pulled them at 128. They cruised to 138° on the countertop over the next 30 minutes. I cut the bones off and served them separately; they were nicely cooked. Beef was medium-rare on the ends and rare in the middle, with a fabulously tasty crust. As tender and juicy as any prime rib I have ever had.
The only rub was that there was little juice in the sheet pan, afterwards. That's what Williams-Sonoma's beef/veal concentrated demi is for.
Traditionally our family does a turkey for almost every holiday, but this last Christmas I felt the need for veriety. I decided to do a Prime Rib. I work at a meat counter and find that the holidays have a cycle around here, Turkeys for Thanksgiving, Prime Rib for Christmas, and Ham for Easter. I wanted to know what the fuss was all about, so I took the plunge.
The Roast: After much debating and arguing (mainly with myself) I decided that a 5 lb roast would be about right for the 5 of us. That's Grandma, Mom, Me, My Husband and His Brother. In eating translation, 2 light eaters, 1 average eater, and 2 healthy young men. In the end we ate all but one steak and the meat off the bones, but they made delicious leftovers. Most people get their roasts "Cut and Tied" meaning that while we process the meat we cut it off the bones and tie it back on. This makes serving so easy as the steaks just lift off the bone... kinda. If you like seasoning between the bones and the meat you can either ask for it cut but not tied and season it yourself, or you can choose from one of the house seasonings to be put on before the bones are tied back on. Due to a bit of a fiasco that happened as they tried to get me my roast I didn't worry about putting seasoning in the middle and I don't think I lost a thing for it. The roast I received in the end was aproximately the 3rd and 4th bone, a bit closer to the chuck end but for marbled because of it, Cut and Tied.
The Rub: Oh the wealth of seasonings and pre-measured rubs and mixes presented to the begining roast cooker. Do your self a favor, don't even concider it. If you want to go "Super simple" then get a house rub and have the butcher season your roast for you; otherwise, be simple! If you can't tick off the ingreedients for your roast rub on one hand you're making it too complicated. After contimplating many recipies and co-workers and customers I found that most rubs come down to either a seasoned Salt Crust or a Herb Rub. While fresher will provide more flavor I tend to use dried because it doesn't start growing (or worse molding) if I don't us it within 2 weeks. The rub I finally picked was one featured on a youtube short (http://youtu.be/ZOnFdyEJEI4
), the simplicity of the rub appealed to me especially because my husband was doing all the cooking and I didn't feel that a tricky salt crust was either afordable or in his league. Don't get me wrong, he's an excelent cook, but I'm probably just a bit to particular about my meats. I could go on and on about different reasons I picked my rub, but when it comes right down to it I picked it cause the price was right, we already had all the ingreadients.
Searing and Cooking: I admit, I skip searing. I know, it's supposed to add flavor by... adding something to the party, but I've never been able to identify what. So I take the lasy route and skip searing all together. Maybe when I reach the cooking chapter in my Cooking for Geeks cook book I'll understand it better. For the pan I used a large pot like roasting pan with rack... well I wanted to use the rack to make lifting the roast out easier but I wasn't there to manage the kitchen so the rack was left out in favor of the one provied naturally by the roast, which does not have handles. The Roast was seasoned then put in this pan/pot before anything else was put together. I'm not sure when the roast "could have" gone into the oven, but it didn't go into the oven till all the other parts to dinner were prepped and ready. It was roasted in a 350F oven till my probe thermometer informed us that it had reached 130F inside the roast, then it was left to set under foil for about a half hour. Doneness was perfect, even for my brother in law who askes for "proof that the cow his steak came from is burning in hell". My husband suggested that we should have Prime Rib more oftain, not just for holidays... then learned how much it would have cost us if I hadn't pulled out all the tricks I had and bought it on holiday sale.
Oh, and the dog loved the bone she got. Just remember pet safety and supervise dogs with rib bone (many treats for that matter), they have a chance of splintering and getting sharp pieces lodged in esophguses.
Health Canada has recently amended their safe cook guidelines for blade tenderized meat and quite properly listed it in the section with ground meats. Blade tenderizing is the norm for almost all retail sources in central Canada.
Is it worth buying tenderized prime rib and then (over)cooking it to 71'C or 160'F?
If we do not follow the new recommendations, at least we know the risk.
Over the years I've modified how I cook my standing rib roasts slightly. I use a thermocouple and data logger these days and actually cycle my oven on (170F is the lowest it goes) and off maintaining a core roast temperature of 130F-135F depending on desired level of doneness. At 130F, holding the roast temperature for 2 hours is sufficient to pasteurize it. At 135F, 1 hour will pasteurize. At 140F, only 30 min is needed. If you are unable to get an intact roast and only have access to a tenderized (where someone other than you has jabbed it full of slits/holes) roast, then I highly recommend attempting to pasteurize the roast before serving to others.
This is in line with sous vide cooking methods - 55 °C (131 °F) to 60 °C (140 °F) so makes a lot of sense. Government regulations do not take into account longer cooking times so err on the side of safety.
The only meat shop where I've seen "blade tenderized" meat is Costco. All their beef, with the exception of ground and tenderloin are treated this way, so ground and tenderloin are the only beef cuts I'll buy there. At least they are required to label such treated meat now. Last year, when there was a major e-coli issue at Costco's main Canadian supplier, several folks got sick from eating their steaks. I argue with DH constantly about this - he is prepared to risk eating Costco steaks med-rare, saying the hygiene problem at the supplier has been fixed and could never happen again. Yeah....right....
We're currently trying out local small butchers.
>>We're currently trying out local small butchers.
that's the best bet imho. mechanically tenderizing a cut only indicates - to me - it's not really a top quality cut. like seriously, if it was a quality cut to begin with - what's the point?
USDA Choice or Prime grades should not require artificial "tenderizing" - Canada has a different grading 'system' - but that is of zero meaning - either the cut is of a decent quality in terms of marbling / fat or it's a cheap substitute for 'the real thing'
to the best of my knowledge, there is no option in USA to take a "Utility" grade cut of meat, subject it to mechanical tenderizing, then label it "Choice / Prime" etc. the "labeled grade" on a chunk of meat must stem from a USDA inspection/grading process - which is not "free" for suppliers. the "USDA inspection" is free, the "USDA grading" is not free. falsifying the "grade" in USA based on mechanical treatment is an actionable offense.
Canada may be different, no clue.
Exactly! In Canada, the grades are A, AA, and AAA, with the quality/tenderness improving with the number of As on the label. AAA is supposed to be the primo grade, although I've seen a few high end restaurants describing their meat as AAAA. Supermarket beef is usually AA, and the cheapo butchers, like where my "value conscious" brother shops sell A. As in the USA, grading is done just after slaughter, never at the retail level.
Costco's beef is all AAA, and I just don't see why they need to adulterate it. BTW, I've heard that "blade tenderizing" is more common in the USA than here. I had never heard of the process before the afore mentioned e-coli situation, which triggered the requirement for all meat so treated to be labeled.
according to this:
Canada grades A, AA, AAA, Prime - (for youthful cattle, old cows have more grades....)
one could suspect quad-A (AAAA) is an alternate description for Prime, but who knows.
in the US it is not technical impossible to grade 'at the retail level' but it is highly impractical / expensive. under Federal US law, _only_ USDA Inspectors can assign a grading. there is no such thing as 'supplier grading' - slaughter houses must _pay_ for the services of a USDA Inspector to grade their meat / cuts / primals.
then - in USA,,, there's a whole raft of "label laws" - which very explicitly detail what words / phrases can be used on (in this case) meat labels.
I really doubt that Canadian law permits a meat vendor to take an A graded meat, punch it full of holes to make it more tender, and then label it AA or AAA or Prime/AAAA.
I've not seen that jaccarded product around here - but my bet: it is not illegal to shred a roast and put it on the shelf for sale with a "super tender" label, omitting any mention of an actual USDA grade.
showing the USDA grade is actually _not_ required in USA. what is not legal is labeling / selling meat as a _higher / better_ grade than it is known to be. markets could put USDA Prime on the shelf as "Roast comma beef" and that's not a problem. however, put a chunk/slice/portion of a primal that (a) has not been graded or graded less than "Choice / Prime" in a package labelled Choice / Prime will land somebody in jail. well, if we could get the bureaucrats off their donkey.....