Cooking For Engineers Forum Index Cooking For Engineers
Analytical cooking discussed.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Art ans science of cooking Pasta

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cooking For Engineers Forum Index -> Engineer Speak
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chef davide
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:43 am    Post subject: Art ans science of cooking Pasta Reply with quote

(1) Protein dictates the quality of Pasta , better the protein count the better the pasta. Wheat dictates the quality of protein in pasta. The longer the cooking time the greater the quality- A good quality pasta should not be cooked for less than 6 minutes, a really Fine Pasta will take at least 10 minutes plus to cook- look at the cooking time on the label, which diefines quality as well.Good quality Dried pasta on most occasions is superior to home made Pasta for many reasons- Durum Wheat is the species of wheat used to make Good pasta "Durum" being the latin name for "hard". Such wheat carries a specific number of cells in its genetic make up being 48 and is direcly related to the Wild wheat species .

(2) Salt is added to the Pasta water to raise the thermal temperture of the water over its natural boiling threshold of 100C or 212F. Salt has nothing to do with taste. By raising the boiling threshold of the past using one teaspoon of salt for every Litre of water used, guarantees that the Pastas no matter type is used , will never stick- Pasta will stick if too much is placed in a pot, that quickly redues the water temperture to under 80C, thus for every 100 grams of pasta One litre of water ans one teaspoon of salt should apply- thus 500 grams of pasta placed all at once into a 5 litre pot of boiling slated water will drop the temperture to around 95C, at such a heat level, the pasta will not stick.Oil is NEVER added to Pasta water, moseso in a restaurantant situation where pasta is precooked and stored for som time- Oil breeds bacteria, which will quicky react with stored pasta.

(3) Pasta should never be drained into ta collander before serving- The Pasta once cooked should be forked out of the water with a Pasta fork straining into the serving plate, wet and dripping- The sauce is added, and the whole plate is bought to the table, mixed and served. This adds flavour to the sauce, and pasta, because the wet pasta carried with it a touch of the 16 Amino acisds which is simply wasted if dully drained- Rough pasta as opposed to smooth pasta pertains to the art of pressing the pasta through aged bronzed dies-not plastic dies, which creates a shiny smooth finished-Good quality pasta is indicative of a rough surface finish-The misconception that the rough surface make sthe sauce stick to the surface of pasta is another Myth- The micro holes of a rough pasta surface regulates the even cooking of the pasta to attain the right texture of the cooked batch evenly-Through the science of "heat transfer"

(4)Pasta should be cooked "Al dente" meaning "of the tooth"- Now unlike popular misconceptions "al Dente" does not mean "raw"- it means when the pasta leaves the realm of being raw to being fully cooked right through- defines "al dente" - A good quallity pasta will hold such a position for two or even longer minutes when the cooking time has been arrived at- a cheap nasty pasta will not- So there is no need to panick when using a good pasta.

(5) Another misconception is that which pertains to Carbohydrates-Good pasta on its own will have around 13 percent plus protein- add your cheese and whatever products are added to ther sauce- then the ideal balanced serve indicates that combined with sauce, cheese and pasta, a serve should not eceed 200 grams in total- thus defining by science, that a balanced serve of pasta is indeed around 50 percent of even more protien than carbohydrates- the misconception has come about because too many experts simply read the carbohydrate content on the packet of pasta , when making the carbohydrate declaration.

(6) Classical italian cookery defines that Fresh tomatoes and Butter is the superior protocol sauce application when it applies for pasta recipes, unfortunately canned tomatoes and Olive oil is the popular misued application that many apply.Butter is a very important product pertaining to the B6 family vitamen group- which attaches itself to bone seeker calcium nutrients. Brittle bones plaguing the health of so many people, both young an old, can now be traced to the misplaced ideal that butter among other things was bad for our cholesterol levels-

(6) Marco Polo did not Bring pasta bacjk from China- it was already recorded as being in Italy long before Marco polo came back form his 20 year stint in Kublia Khan. Thomas Jefferson, USA President and Inventor is said to have introduced the first Pasta making machine in the USA along with the first three boxes of Pasta being imported into America.

(6)There is no standard pasta dough recipe. Every Pasta dish based a recipe depending on the sauce being susd as well as the Pasta being used.
A "Tagliolini Alla Marinara" for instance, is made with pasta infused with lemon rind and a specially selected range of seafood. Its served with a side dish of Boiled potatoes- where a "Spaghetti Alla Marinara" uses no egg in its pasta, and has no seafood in its sauce- The Pasta type and sauce combined actually gives name to the type of ingredients such classical recipes should be using.

(7)The most highly regarded and famed pasta makers in the world come from Gragnano, Naples in Italy-

(8) Italian home cookery is not genuine authentic italian classical cookery- such home cookery style, along with so many untrained chefs have contributed to the decline of correct pasta recipes,an ditalian food in genral, to such an extent that it's now approaching the real of the "lost" art form-even in Italy.

Chef Davide; Cert:HSc
Master Italian Chef
As defined By "The Italian Academy of Cookery Rome", Italy 1953
The Art and Science of Classical Italy Cookery.
www.chefdavide.freeservers.com
Expert: www.allexperts.com
Back to top
Jason
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Art ans science of cooking Pasta Reply with quote

Interesting comments - hard to read because of typos and awkward English - I assume Chef Davide is not a native English speaker? anyway, I do have a few questions for Chef Davide...

chef davide wrote:
Good quality Dried pasta on most occasions is superior to home made Pasta for many reasons- Durum Wheat is the species of wheat used to make Good pasta "Durum" being the latin name for "hard". Such wheat carries a specific number of cells in its genetic make up being 48 and is direcly related to the Wild wheat species .

Why do you say dried pasta is superior to homemade? You immediately talk about durum wheat afterward (as if it was supporting information for your claim that homemade pasta is inferior to dried pastas) - but I use semolina flour (made from durum wheat) for all my pasta making needs. This type of flour is readily available at my grocery store. (It's basically only good for making pasta -- too hard [high in protein] for even bread)

Also, what does "genetic make up begin 48" mean?

chef davide wrote:
(2) Salt is added to the Pasta water to raise the thermal temperture of the water over its natural boiling threshold of 100C or 212F. Salt has nothing to do with taste. By raising the boiling threshold of the past using one teaspoon of salt for every Litre of water used, guarantees that the Pastas no matter type is used , will never stick-

I thought that the volume of water used was more important than the salt content. I was under the impression that the surface starch needs enough water to disperse and dissolve so that they do not form a paste and stick to nearby pasta. The temperature of the water and the salt content affects the cooking time and flavor of the pasta. Salted water compared to unsalted water does affect flavor of the pasta - although this may not be the reason that Chef Davide uses salt in his water, I'm sure it affects the taste more than it prevents sticking.

chef davide wrote:
Oil is NEVER added to Pasta water, moseso in a restaurantant situation where pasta is precooked and stored for som time- Oil breeds bacteria, which will quicky react with stored pasta.

I totally agree.

chef davide wrote:
(5) Another misconception is that which pertains to Carbohydrates-Good pasta on its own will have around 13 percent plus protein- add your cheese and whatever products are added to ther sauce- then the ideal balanced serve indicates that combined with sauce, cheese and pasta, a serve should not eceed 200 grams in total- thus defining by science, that a balanced serve of pasta is indeed around 50 percent of even more protien than carbohydrates- the misconception has come about because too many experts simply read the carbohydrate content on the packet of pasta , when making the carbohydrate declaration.

Cooked or uncooked, the carbohydrate content of pasta is about five times as much as it's protein content. Uncooked: protein - 10-13%, carbohydrates - 50-55%. Cooked: protein - 5%, carboohydrate - 25%. I don't see how you can prepare a sauce such that you achieve 50 percent more protein than carbs in the meal. Even if you only served 100 g of pasta with 100 g of pure parmesan cheese you'd end up with only a 1-to-1 ratio of carbs to protein. And that's a lot of cheese. Use cream or butter and that ratio swings back toward the carb side again...

Anyway, I'm not arguing that there are misconceptions - I'm just saying that your numbers don't add up. Adding numbers to a claim doesn't make people say "oh, it must be true, he backed it up with numbers" (at least not with most engineers)

chef davide wrote:
(6) Classical italian cookery defines that Fresh tomatoes and Butter is the superior protocol sauce application when it applies for pasta recipes, unfortunately canned tomatoes and Olive oil is the popular misued application that many apply.Butter is a very important product pertaining to the B6 family vitamen group- which attaches itself to bone seeker calcium nutrients. Brittle bones plaguing the health of so many people, both young an old, can now be traced to the misplaced ideal that butter among other things was bad for our cholesterol levels-

This is one area where Michael (the author of Cooking for Engineers) and I agree - butter is great for eating and for health. But, and I'm sure Michael will agree (if he's willing to chime in), butter doesn't contain any B6 vitamins. At least, it contains a negligable amount and cannot be thought of as a good source for this vitamin. Butter does contain A, D, E, and K as well as butyric acid (known to be anti-tumorigenic), glycosphingolipids (protects intestines from infections), as well as others.

Also, B6 does reduce the risk of kidney stones, but I had not heard it had any effect on promoting healthy bone structures through it's interactions with calcium. It seems farfetched to claim that the reduction in consumption of butter (which doesn't provide much B6, that may not have anything to do with bone strengthening) is a root of the brittle bone problems of the elderly.

- Oh, and isn't this topic better served in the general foods forum? I think Michael started up this new category for people to be all nerdy about computers, science, and stuff. Hmmm... this conversation fits that bill too, so I guess it's fine. Smile
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1) Home made- versus Commerical high quality dried pasta-

10 percent grade flour- eggs and water or no eggs and just water- does not define a good quality pasta- it defines 'A pasta"- to be able to cook a pasta "al dente' is what defines a good pasta-A high protein Dried Pasta will take at least 9 minutes to get to "al dente " stage- try cooking any freshly made home made pasta for nine or more minutes- and tell me what you have-? hence its the protein content that dicates if your pasta will be cooked "al dente"

(2) There is not standard pasta dough- but every single time you see "home made' pasta being made- a base application seems to always prevail-Unlike "noodles" pasta has many dough recipes-IF YOU ARE TRULY practicing the classical art form of cookery-Unfortunately- ther are simply not many italians left who know the classical artform- Everyone can cook "italian" but very few can cook "The real think"- as per the original recipe application.

Supermarket soft plian flour- is not the base ingredients to good pasta- the ultimate hard flour makes the best pasta, and a whole lot of classical recipes also use semolina as its base application- Some recipes have eggs, some dont, some have other ingredients added to the flour such as lemon rind , herbs or chesse- The name of the recipe dictates strictly the type of pasta used-hence preparing 20 italian pasta dishes may acutally involve making 15 different types of dough- yet this is never implied anywhere-
When i say that the art and sicence of italian cookry is a dying art- I really mean it to be as such-

(3)Genetic make up: 48 cells per head of wheat- hence Durum wheat- as opposed to the cheaper varities which carry 30 cells per head or less-

(4) Carbohydrates as applied to the classical recipe base and not invented "hypothetical" dishes- the balance is nearly is nearly 50/50 when correct portions are applied-hence 200 grams is the total recipe portion- hence even by your own ratiional- Science; Carbohydrates: CARBON OXYGEN HYDROGEN- Now lets lets define cogulated protein: CARBON OXYGEN HYDROGEN- and maybe a little sulphur and nitrogen- so in fact both carbohydrates and protein indeed share the same stuctural make up-

To say 100 grams of pasta- and 100 grams of cheese- do not make the figures add up- maybe right- but then again thats not a classical recipe base application is it..?

(5) B6: A few drop of oil in a ships tonnage of total stored drinking water - will contaminate it fully-There is indeed a portion B6 in butter-and such small amounts acting as a intermediary among two principal agents over a 20 year period- does indeed denotes an important ingredient in making calcium a "boneseeker" entity- Australians diets heavily supported both full cream milk and butter 30 years ago- As such products have slowly been replaced with artifically created ones- that are supposed to be healthier for us- the more people are getting sicker from illnesses hardly never heard of 30 years ago..To trivialise the B6 factor in Butter because of its small amounts-says or infers nothing as that applicable to science-and indeed fact;

(6) Again salt is the important factor- when FOLLOWING a recipe-as per a required protocol- One Litre of water per every 100 grams of pasta add one teapsoon of salt-I can cook 500 grams of pasta in as little of 2 litres of water- regardless of starch leeching out- The starch that you refer to is a make up of 16 aminio acids- raising the water thermal tempature actually help immensly the leeching of such important "starch" considerably- hence giveing you a healthier product- Ever tried lathering soap in the bay- it wont lather because of a the salt water- Pasta is heavily reduced from leeching the goodness of its amino acids- on the same principal-Salt helps the pasta to indeed remain firmer, to produce the classical 'al dente' product-

Everything I write I do so from knowledge and experience-and without guesswork- based on years of research- natually such writings may not fully imply the parameter of my arguments- Yet everything I wite can be backed threefold in giving credence that what I write, may indeed be more true, and less myth or fallacy-


Chef David
The art and science of Italian cookery
Expert; Italian classical cookery-
Back to top
Scott
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:47 am    Post subject: Starch Reply with quote

One fact and that is all:

Starch is NOT made up of amino acids. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, while carbohydrate molecules are the building blocks of starches. This is an indisputable fact of basic biochemistry.
Back to top
nicu



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does everybody confuse Starch with Vitamin C ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bsdwork



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do anything to stay away from pasta .. or potatoes and white bread and you guys post recipes with pasta .. Evil I tell you ..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
markkubis



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Art ans science of cooking Pasta Reply with quote

chef davide wrote:
The longer the cooking time the greater the quality. Good quality Dried pasta on most occasions is superior to home made Pasta for many reasons"


Cooking time is also highly dependent on the thickness of the pasta so by itself doesn't determine quality.

I've read various times that as dried pasta is made from a harder wheat it is better than home-made pasta. In my experience this is true but only if you use general purpose (soft flour.) I use a blend of double zero flour and very strong (15% protein flour) and find that the result is better than any commercial dried (or even fresh) pasta I've tasted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
markkubis



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, England

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing some further experiments on flour types and blends and have found that 100% Durum wheat semolina (fine ground version) in my opinion gives a better texture and taste than any other flour type or blend. Unfortumately in the UK you cannot buy Durum wheat flour (same as semolina but an even finer grind.)

Although Durum semolina does not have a very high protein content (about 11-12%) and it's lower than that of very strong flour recommended for NY pizza dough (14-16%) it behaves as though it has a higher protein content because it is low in starch content.

I have found that 100% Durum semolina mixed with eggs and no water produces a pasta that has a great texture and bite to it but has an excessively eggy taste so I am currently experimenting with reducing the egg content and adding olive oil and water to the dough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting experiments, Mark -

I enjoy doing some homemade linguini / fettuccine now and then and have often thought of getting semolina to try. many of the "high end" pastas tout "made with (%) semolina" - it is so prevalent one assumes there could be some truth to it . . .

here's a bit I've not thoroughly researched and seems a tad strange:

Durham wheats are supposedly produced only in certain US states.
Italy is historically the motherlode of good pasta.

how does Durham wheats figger into (less than modern day) Italian pasta?

and if the claim that Italy does the best pasta is true (I can go with that...) where did they get their wheat in the 18th century?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest






PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: salt for flavor or boiling point elevation? Reply with quote

The amount of salt added to the water is generally not enough to raise the temperature by a degree. You can search the web for various experiments with varying results, but they all pretty much conclude it would take a lot of salt to do anything. For example, one study said 2 tbsp of table salt per liter of water for just a raise of 2 degrees C. Another said that 5 grams per 0.1 liter of water would do nothing to the boiling point (and 10 grams would raise it just 2 degrees C). In either case, that's way more salt than you typically add to a pot of water.

Whether or not it does anything to the taste is another matter. And it still may help prevent sticking.
Back to top
GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pardon my combination of US and SI units and their averaging.

It would take about 58.5 grams of NaCl per liter (2 molal) to raise the boiling point of the water 1.04 degrees C. The Kb of water is .52.

So, if you have a gallon (4 liters) of water in which to boil a pound of pasta, that means for a 1.04 deg C (or about 2 deg F) rise, you need 234 grams of salt. I don't think people are throwing a half pound of salt into a gallon of water to cook pasta so they can get a 1.04 deg C molal boiling point elevation to make the water boil at 101.04 deg C. A tablespoon or two is about all people generally put in. I think a measuring tablespoon is about 18-19 grams of salt.

The reason for the addition of salt, would have to be (1) a faulty urban legend, (2) a flavor enhancer or (3) some other factor (real or imagined) in cooking of pasta.

I don't like pasta, so I'm not going to test it! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cooking For Engineers Forum Index -> Engineer Speak All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group