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Kitchen Notes: Saturated Fats, Cholesterol, and Heart Diseas
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the site, but unfortunately you have some facts serious wrong. With respect to cholesterol's role in cardiovascular disease, numerous randomized, placebo-controlled studies show that cholesterol-lowering drugs signicantly reduce the risk of cardiovascular mortality. The implication that cholesterol is a an "innocent bystander" rather than a causal factor is simply incorrect, and could only be made by someone who has very little knowledge on the subject.
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Guest






PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your description of the chemical stucture of trans-fatty acids differs slightly from what I
learned in organic chemistry.

The Hydrogen atoms appear on opposite sides of the same double carbon bond.

H H H
-C-C=C-C-
H H H

Chemical Structure of Fats and Fatty Acids
Wikipedia article
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1626
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops, you are correct. I have updated the article.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to previous anonymous comment that your thoughts on cholesterol "could only be made by someone who has very little knowledge on the subject. " - there are plenty of exceptionally knowledgeable biochemists around the world that support the ideas put forward on this blog. I would suggest that you have very little knowledge on the subject if you are not aware of this fact.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the couple of posters saying that you are making a mistake -- pay not attention to these dullards. I have been studying the issue for over ten years now. The fats you have to watch out for are the kind that are over heated and changed in structure. For example, french fries. On the other hand, one can eat as much coconut oil as he likes, this is a good oil with all sorts of great properties.

Butter is not only harmless, its good for us. Same thing with eggs. Although unpasteurized butter and range free eggs are many times better than the other.

Avocados are good for us too. And don't forget Kefir. This along with raw, unheated, unpasteurized honey will make a person strong and healthy..

Perry

perrypierce@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After cooking the pasta, I serve the portions, then rinse the remaining pasta in cold water. It stores well this way- leftovers don't turn into one big glob of pasta and the sauce sticks better than when coated in oil.
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High School Chemistry
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject: Minor factual errors Reply with quote

In your discussion of monounsaturated fatty acids, you misstate the shape of the bend around the double bond -- it would bend towards the missing hydrogens, not away.

Also, metabolize is misspelled as matabolize
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The Warren Commission
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Big bad pharmaceutical companies Reply with quote

While I'd like to avoid the name-calling and intelligence-questioning that some posters have been engaging in, there are certain points being made in the comments section that coudn't be honestly made by an intelligent informed person of science ...

Suffice it to say that we know that the big heart drugs work. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant or anti-science. We know that, for example, the statins (brand names: Lipitor, Zocor, Pravachol, etc) reduce the incidence of heart disease among people who take them.

What we may not know is why they work -- we know that they reduce "bad" cholesterol and since that is the prevailing model of heart disease right now, they are often described as working BY lowering cholesterol, but, in fact, we don't know how they work. Recent evidence indicates that they might instead work by reducing inflammation in the lining of blood vessels. However, none of this changes the fact that THEY WORK.

For the most part, in order to get approved for use in this country, drugs have to meet mortality or morbidity endpoints in their trials, not biochemical ones. That means that people taking the drug have to die less frequently or regain body functions more frequently than people not taking a drug. Simply changing body chemistry (e.g. lowering a blood chemcial like LDL compared to people not on a drug) is not good enough to get approval.

This post makes some interesting points, but the author never claims (and I hope didn't mean to imply) that, if he's correct, you should stop taking your drugs. They work. It's not a big pharma conspracy; it's science.[/i]
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General Lee Supportive
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject: Don't overreach Reply with quote

I was really enjoying your post until I came across this doozy:

"It seems that cholesterol is neither a good indicator nor a risk factor for heart disease"

Why make this silly statement? You're making the same mistake that you've just nailed the medical orthodoxy for: overreaching.

You've done a good job of poking holes in their extreme overemphasis on cholesterol as a cause for heart disease by pointing out times where it didn't hold, but then you totally overshoot the mark by claiming that it doesn't ever hold. That's crazy talk!

I think that it's a commonly accepted fact that people with higher cholesterol have heart disease at a higher rate than people with lower cholesterol. Just because people with lower cholesterol also have heart disease doesn't mean that cholesterol isn't a risk factor, it just means that it's not the only risk factor.

Other than that, I'm generally supportive
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High School Chemistry
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: One more thing on pasta Reply with quote

I think that chefs add oil to pasta water as a surfactant.

The starch released from the pasta increases the surface tension of the water so bubbles can form more easily and grow larger. This can quickly cause a pot to boil over. To counteract this, chefs just add oil to reduce the surface tension and shrink the bubles back down.

This really deserves its own post on Cooking for Engineers
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Ray Smillie - OzFire -



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't overreach Reply with quote

General Lee Supportive wrote:
I think that it's a commonly accepted fact that people with higher cholesterol have heart disease at a higher rate than people with lower cholesterol


The key words are "commonly accepted" not many scientists wold say it though, generally it is dietitian's that make the statement.

The fat around the heart is cholesterol but it is a symptom of heart disease rather than a cause, this has been known for many years by the scientists.

hence we have cultures eating almost pure cholesterol with almost no heart disease - The Inuit, they eat blubber.

the cholesterol we eat we digest... Cows eat grass where do you think they get their cholesterol from .... Like us they manufacture their own
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General Lee Supportive
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Don't overreach Reply with quote

Dude, the key word is "fact"

No scientist, dietician or otherwise, would dispute that higher levels of cholesterol in the blood are correlated with higher rates of heart disease. As Smilin' Jack Ross would say, any attempt to prove otherwise is futile because it just ain't true

You seem to be basically ignoring the amount of cholesterol in the blood, and instead talk about the amount of cholesterol in the diet. That's not really relevant to my point, but it's OK -- there are important points to be made regarding the distinctions between the two. However, you seem to be saying that the amount of cholesterol in the diet has no effect on the amount of cholesterol in the blood. If that's what you meant, that, once again, is crazy talk.

I'll deal with the Inuit in a separate post
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Ray Smillie - OzFire -



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: Don't overreach Reply with quote

General Lee Supportive wrote:
No scientist, dietician or otherwise, would dispute that higher levels of cholesterol


Around here it is commonly believed
that science is a good substitute to common belief.

here are some facts from a real scientist- about cholesterol
http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth2.htm

dietitians and nutritionists are not scientists.
Just business people who make money out of having an opinion, and the fat debate is one of their biggest money spinners. They have a vested interest in the fat myths. Now trans fat and hey you have science right with you.... margarine is a serious health risk
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jeanthibca



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 3
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: what is your problem? Reply with quote

Sorry for the offensive subject title. It is just to introduce my point that people should worry more on what cause their disease than trying to have all the types of fats possible just to have the whole collection of the omega something fats.. By exemple, even is olive oil might be good for the heart, an overweight person should avoid it because it will make them even more overweight, since any type of fat is full on energy. This leads to diabetes melitus and metabolic syndrome. Thin people having homozygote HDL recaption defect should avoid animal products, but should use olive oil liberatly. [/i]
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lance
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: melting point of lipids Reply with quote

So, what is the melting point of arterial plaque?
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