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Recipe File: Turkey or Chicken Stock
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KitchenBarbarian
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:02 pm    Post subject: Pressure cooker - the only way to go Reply with quote

Sorry, but after several unsuccessful attempts to make stock sans a pressure cooker, I'm going to have to break down and buy one. There's no joy in spending hours simmering something on the stove only to end up with the pale, wobbly, not fully gelatinized stuff that comes out of my stock pot. And yes, the bones are cooked to the crumbly point. Whereas I used to turn out stocks you could cut with a knife when using a pressure cooker.

I'ma have to buy a new pressure cooker. *sigh*

NOTE: For those who want to try this at home: You will need a pressure cooker twice as big as the amount of stock you want to make. You can't fill a pressure cooker up over half full. But at 20 or 30 mins to make stock compared to a whole day - it's worth it to make it in more than one batch, or to make smaller batches more often.

And I've never seen this "grey foam" of which you speak - what is that???
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1629
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WaTsOnBrYn wrote:
Sir, your site is fantastic, and this was another smashing article. But I was wondering, I have heard that true stock must be made using uncooked bone, so that the gelatin is preserved, and that using cooked meat is for broths. IIRC this was from one of Tom Colicchio’s “Think Like a Chef “. Am I off on this?

There is still plenty of collagen/gelatin in the bones even if roasted. Once the stock is reduced, you'll find that it will solidify at refrigerator temperatures - this is due to the gelatin content.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your guidance. My first pot of chicken stock turned out very nice. But, I have some questions:
1. After removing and straining I simmered without the lid until the stock was reduced by maybe 10%. Still has nice flavor.

2. Now, I would like to pressure can the quart jars of stock. What steps should I take to make sure that my stock does not turn bitter during the high heat canning process? During the process of reducing the stock, I did notice a change in flavor and could see how easy it would be for it to turn bitter. I don' want that to happen while canning. What are your thoughts on this?

3. I never let my stock boil--it did simmer and I could occasionally see bubbles forming below the surface, but they hardly ever popped the surface. I got very little scum, and I did not get any gelatin. How did that happen? I used organic uncooked chicken (I roasted the bones first in the oven and poured the drippings into the stock pot). How do I get gelatin for my pates, etc.?

Thank you again for your many hours of thoughtful instructions. I have been coming to this site for several years now. Best,
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1018
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well..... heat has a habit of changing things.

you might want to consider just freezing the stock. I do that in 2-cup "bags" - good "size" for later "all around" use.

the gelatinous 'goop' should be rendered out in the simmer stage.
simmer the carcass, cool stock = gelatinous mass.

I wonder if the 'roasted bones' bit made a difference?
not gone the roasted chicken bones route meself....
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
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Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
3. I never let my stock boil--it did simmer and I could occasionally see bubbles forming below the surface, but they hardly ever popped the surface. I got very little scum, and I did not get any gelatin. How did that happen? I used organic uncooked chicken (I roasted the bones first in the oven and poured the drippings into the stock pot). How do I get gelatin for my pates, etc.?

The gelatin from the chicken should be dissolved into the stock. Are you trying to extract the gelatin from the stock for use separately? If so, there are various techniques to do so. The first that comes to mind is to boil down (or simmer down) the stock until well reduced (maybe so only 25% of what you started with is left). Then refrigerate the whole thing so it will solidify. The gelatin percentage in the reduced stock should be high enough that you'll get something like a savory Jell-O. Place a cheesecloth (folded a few times) into a large sieve / strainer and put that over a large bowl. Scoop the refrigerated stock jell-o into the cheesecloth and return to the fridge. Over time, the stock will separate leaving solids in the cheesecloth and a liquid in the bowl (the liquid is consomme and the solid is gelatin). Then, heat the gelatin and filter it again to remove particulates from it and get a purer gelatin. You can then use this gelatin for other applications.
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rkz53



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Thanksgiving (and other times), I will debone four turkey breasts to tie into roasts, season and smoke for the family gathering (great eating for another topic). I will save and freeze the deboned carcasses. On a cold, dreary Saturday in January when there is nothing to do, I will defrost the carcasses, roast the bones in a 400 degree oven for an hour, then make stock from the roasted bone much like your recipe. I put the stock in dated Ziplock bags and freeze for later use. This makes the best chicken and okra gumbo you ever ate and beats throwing away all those perfectly good, flavorful turkey bones.
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KitchenBarbarian



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Pressure cooker - still the QUICKEST, but ... Reply with quote

After more experimentation (read: accidentally falling asleep while cooking stock stovetop sans a pressure cooker) it turns out that the fault is not in the stovetop method, but in the idea that you can do this effectively in 4 hours, or even 8.

Simmering for 12 hours at the minimum has netted me the results I want. I now get a beautiful, golden brown, thickly gelatinized stock. This is not from cooking down, I cover my stock pot always.

As for boiling, I don't boil it but I do BRING it to a boil then reduce to a very low simmer, tightly covered to reduce evaporation. It doesn't make my stock cloudy, not that I can see at any rate. I also still have not seen this gray foam of which you speak.

I'd still FAR rather do this in a pressure cooker. Whoda thunk they'd get so expensive in the last 30 years. Shock
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1018
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nothing wrong with an accidental success (g)

>>As for boiling, I don't boil it but I do BRING it to a boil then reduce to a very low simmer, tightly covered to reduce evaporation. It doesn't make my stock cloudy, not that I can see at any rate. I also still have not seen this gray foam of which you speak.

one theory is that boiling too hard breaks up the little bits into really really little bits that float around and make the stock cloudy.

the foam - it's proteins that the simmer brings out. if this was another go with roasted bones, any protein matter may have cooked enough from the roasting it does not make for the foam.
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Sick Cookie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Cooling stock Reply with quote

I'm making stock today to feed the common cold, and I'm referring to your recipe and the accompanying comments. I noticed nobody suggested what we do here in Maine to cool stock. We have plenty of snow during the chicken soup months, so take the whole pot of stock and leave it in a snow bank for 15 minutes...Voila!! cooled stock :-)
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James Achilles
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Bad smelling stock. Reply with quote

My stock had a very sour odor and bitter almost vinegary taste. Dumped the whole thing. What might have caused this
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1629
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Bad smelling stock. Reply with quote

James Achilles wrote:
My stock had a very sour odor and bitter almost vinegary taste. Dumped the whole thing. What might have caused this

Was the chicken cooked or raw when you started? How old was the chicken? What was the temperature of the stock as you simmered it? (If you didn't have a thermometer, was the stock strongly bubbling, lightly bubbling, or not at all bubbling during the cooking process?) How quickly did you cool the stock - quick chill in ice water, uncovered cooling on range or counter, or covered?
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Abruzzi
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Cooling down the chicken stock Reply with quote

Immersing the stock pot in ice or cold water after cooking is done in order to minimize or eliminate the possibility of bacteria forming in the stock. You cannot let the stock sit on the stove or on the counter to cool on its own. You have to get the temperature of the stock to drop quickly. I used to own a restaurant and the city health inspectors were adamant about the cooling down of stocks, sauces, etc. They even had procedure placards that we posted in the kitchen for the staff to follow. The best method we found was to fill a tub or sink with cold tap water then add a bunch of ice to the water. During winter months is was even easier and faster - leave it outdoors to cool.
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El Jay
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Canned Stock Reply with quote

We are butchering our chickens this weekend and then I'll be canning stock for the first time ever using backbones, neck, wing tips, some giblets (not courageous enough to try feet yet). Unless I missed it, I'm not finding any comments about canning the stock. Does anyone have any advice that would help me along on my "maiden voyage"?
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1018
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's making the stock, then the canning bit.

the major trick in making stock is not to keep it at a hard boil - a very gentle simmer. the hard boil can break up the proteins and the stock will be cloudy.

it has meat in it - you should be using a pressure canner

see
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/publications_usda.html
for the latest recommendations
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obsessed with food
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: what is the foam? Can you reuse the cheese cloth? Reply with quote

What is the foam? Why skim it? My Chinese mother said that it's the "dirty stuff". There are times that my broth has very little foam, but I find that the longer the bones/meat had sit in the fridge before I made the broth, the more foam I will have. I wonder why...

Also, can you reuse cheese cloth/soup socks? How do you effectively clean them or are they for one time use only?

Thanks again for the site. I love the multi pot idea. Thinking now to ask for one for Christmas!
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