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Kitchen Notes: Smoke Points of Various Fats
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1013
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brian -

it's largely a matter of experience vs. "setting a specific temp"

I'm not aware of any (gas or) electric burners that "measure" the temp of the pan or the contents and "automatically adjust the dial" to maintain a specific temp.

the basic problem is the variability of "what is on the burner" vs the electrical energy input needed to reach and/or maintain a "set temp"

for example - boiling water. one would want max power input to bring the pot to a boil as quickly as possible (sometimes... consider cooking pasta vs poaching eggs - two different issues there) however once the pot is boiling, much less energy/heat input is required.

an example on the opposite end of the task range is heating a (thick) sauce - max power would probably burn the bottom - this task requires lower slower heating.

but how does the stove know that?

as for checking the temp, there are IR non-contact thermometers which are reasonably accurate.

theoretically "combining" the technologies, a cooktop could have permanently mounted IR over each burner to "measure" the temp of the pot contents (there are some 'calibration' issues, ignored for the moment) but that still leaves the question for the "automation system" - does it heat max&fast or low&slow or [something]in-between?

one possible solution is ala the "smart" microwaves of today.
"one bag of small popcorn, please" gets input by the user, the microwave has a stored program of power level, on/off cycle times, and total time for "a small bag." there are a lot more "options" needed for a stove....

the problem is less complicated for an "auto maintain this temp" button - user gets the pot to "where you want it" - push "auto" button.
again assuming some method of measuring the contents, the auto function could adjust the burner setting to maintain a constant temp - but "user smarts" are still required to establish the set point.

and it could easily be 'fooled' - say you want to fry pork chops. get the pan up to temp, frying away, remove one batch that is done, plop in a cold batch. same old "how much how fast" question comes back - if the burner goes to max power to recover the set temp, you're apt to get charred pork chops....
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Extra Cold Filtered Rice Bran Oil - according to my bottle here it contains no cholestrol, smoking point of 250C (482F), plant sterols (oryzanol), vitamin E and packs a light flavour Wink It's more expensive here in Australia than most other oils but I love cooking with it.
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Jan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Flash point temperature for commercial fryers grease Reply with quote

Do have information regarding a general temperature range for the flash point of the greases/oils used in commercial fryers?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Saturated fats and heart disease Reply with quote

To the person who is looking for research on saturated fats, there is a site called coconutoil.com that lists several research articles on coconut oil. I have not yet read them, but I will. Briefly scanning the site, it looks like they may have a good argument on this typically "poopooed" oil.
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Garret
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:46 am    Post subject: butter s.p. for clarified or un-? Reply with quote

re the smoke point given for butter--is that for clarified or unclarified butter? Thanks.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1013
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a couple sources state clarified butter smoke point runs to 485'F

the 350'F is for butter right out of the package.
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KayDat



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Super late to the discussion, but I'd like some clarification on the issue raised by anon back in '07 about polyunsaturated vs saturated fats.
Now, anon's attitude left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, and tbh, I actually hold a similar view to both Michael and Rickard; I remember my high school teacher telling us that polyunsaturated fats aren't really "good" fats so to speak (unlike what the mass media might have us believe) in comparison to saturated, just different. Speaking from memory here, he mentioned that while in Western countries, there was higher consumption of saturated oils, and also higher instances of heart disease, in cultures where polyunsaturated oils were consumed in higher amounts, there were higher instances of bowel cancer (I think; it was cancer of some part of the digestive tract). Now again, this is all from memory, and of course, correlation doesn't mean causation, but this all seems to match up with what Rickard said.
Of course, when I asked my teacher back then which fat was "better", he answered moderation, I think it can be safely said that trans fat is bad. =]
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gotta stop worring
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: People worry to much. Reply with quote

I think people gotta stop worrying about what oil they use.

I see people deep fry in olive oil, I see people deep fry in cotton seed oil I see people deep fry in canola oil or vege oil.

I see people fry with peanut oil, sunflower, grapeseed rice bran, vege, soybean, canola, oilve oils etc...even lardand butter ghee.

if we actually got up of our butts and did a decent amount of physical exercise we would not need to be worries bout this kinda stuff....

20 30 yrs ago people used to cosume alot of bad things but they worked harder and had more active life styles.....

I buy various oils dependin on my buget that week....also you really think that ya local fish n chip shop do not care what oil they use YES when it comes to the money side of things NOT the health aspect.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1013
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>what oil they use

to a large degree, I would agree. the 'fact' is the longer a fat is held at a temperature past its 'tolerance' the more it degrades. now,,,, 'longer' is rarely measured in minutes or hours that the home cook encounters for saute, frying, deep frying. but in a commercial setting where the deep fryers run for days and days and days, the type of oil can make a difference in how fast it breaks down, goes off flavor, generates nasty free radicals (and further such scary stuff)

the one issue the home cook may encounter is the oil 'burning' and going off flavor due to too much heat in the pan - obviously the higher the 'I'm gonna taste nasty' temperature, the less like this is to occur. however with very little effort one can turn virtually any oil/fat into a brown goopy foul tasting/smelling mess on an electric or gas burner. some attention to the task at hand is a really good solution to that problem.

we don't deep fry that much - so all that oil is essentially a 'one shot' use. we actually clean out the fry pans after use as well - so not much oil gets carried from saute to saute. all those nasty free radicals get fed to the garbage disposal - heh, it's happy.....

once upon a century dreary I too stocked peanut oil, safflower oil, olive oil, vegetable oil. ditched them, except for olive oil. I use it for any cooking process I need; fry or saute - if I want a browning effect I toss in a pat of unsalted butter. I still keep vegetable oil as an ingredient for recipes - and actually I use it for deep frying simply because olive oil is a lot more expensive.

if one does a dailyx365 diet of fried eggs/bacon at breakfast, fried hamburger for lunch, and deep fried chicken steak for dinner, then indeed one may need to pay attention to the specific oil. frankly, methinks that kind of diet needs more attention than the oil type, but heck - everybody does their own thing.
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Marten
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Nice High Heat Oil 495F Reply with quote

Spectrum Oils (Canadian Label) lists on their Refined Almond Oil a high heat rating (which I understand to be aka Smoke Point) of 495 F. Seems a clear (pardon pun) winner!

BTW, their pdf temperature listings are inaccurate, at least as of 09/16/10. They recommend to go by what's listed on the bottle as being accurate and current. Cheers.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1013
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>clear winner at 495'F

avocado oil comes in at 520'F
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

""avocado oil comes in at 520'F"" dilbert

I am going with Spectrum Oils on this one. As I mentioned, when I questioned them on their discrepancy, they told me that their pdfs, where they listed 510, is inaccurate. http://www.spectrumorganics.com/images/uploads/49623ec41cb5b.pdf and http://www.spectrumorganics.com/images/uploads/496241e655274.pdf

They list 450 for their refined avocado oil and apparently that is supposed to be the current accurate rating. http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=6#j40

I figure if anyone would know, it would an oil specialty company like Spectrum that has been around forever. So I'll go with the 450.

If there was another brand of avocado oil that was unrefined, it would most likely be even lower.

However, at the same time, it does seem that there are many different temperatures for oil smoke points, depending on the manufacturing process and the manufacturer. So I guess we each have to go with what we figure are the best odds for accuracy. :-)
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1013
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

both reference cite 510'F - if it's wrong, and they know it's wrong, and they have not corrected / do no care to correct their documentation, not sure I'd go overboard with a lot of faith in anything they have to offer.

that said, I frankly don't think there's any practical difference in the home kitchen between smoke point 495'F, 510'F or 520'F
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Igor
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"If you can find Rapunzel oils in your local health food stores, you should splurge sometime on a bottle of their organic, unrefined canola oil."


Isn't canola oil made from genetically-modified rapeseed? How can an oil that's made from genetically-modified ingredients be organic?
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Igor
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Does anyone have any recommendations for an oil to use in seasoning cast iron cookware?"

Tallow.
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