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brining

 
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jnbanks1



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: brining Reply with quote

Does anyone know if you can brine(say chicken) then freeze or does that defeat the whole purpose of brining.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 996
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, first to say I have NO experience in "brine then freeze" so....

brining increases the cellular water content.
freezing water expands
expanding water breaks cell membranes
broken cells typically = mush when thawed

so I'd go forth with some caution -

technically the freezing cannot defeat the purpose of brining since once brined the water is "in the cells" before it hits the freezing bit.
"defrosted texture" is another issue . . .
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can say that I've brined pork ribs and then frozen them (under vacuum thanks to a Food Saver). This experiment is still ongoing, but certainly no mush has been encountered thus far. In fact, the resuts so far have been quite encouraging.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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Location: central PA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah! good feedback! thanks and keep us posted of your 'other' results
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kgb1001001



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Wondering about how solid they freeze... Reply with quote

IndyRob wrote:
I can say that I've brined pork ribs and then frozen them (under vacuum thanks to a Food Saver). This experiment is still ongoing, but certainly no mush has been encountered thus far. In fact, the resuts so far have been quite encouraging.


So given that the higher salt content would lower the freezing point of the water in the food, do you find that the ribs freeze solid or semi-solid?
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CookNewb
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intuitively, brining should decrease the water contents of cells because water would "leave" the cells to "dilute" the brine.
I would think that pure water would increase the water contents of cells as the water would "try" to dilute the salt content in the cells.
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgb1001001 wrote:
IndyRob wrote:
I can say that I've brined pork ribs and then frozen them (under vacuum thanks to a Food Saver). This experiment is still ongoing, but certainly no mush has been encountered thus far. In fact, the resuts so far have been quite encouraging.


So given that the higher salt content would lower the freezing point of the water in the food, do you find that the ribs freeze solid or semi-solid?


The ribs freeze solid. I just trained my IR thermometer onto something frozen in the icebox and the temp was 2 degrees F. But it would be interesting to know at exactly what temp a brine would freeze.

Regarding the water content of the cells, the salt - almost paradoxically - makes the meat more moist. To quote the illustrious Alton Brown...

"...However, if there's more salt in the water [outside the meat] (even as little as a few hundred parts per million), the border guards - ever desirous of equilibrium - will throw open the borders allow both salt and water to move across the membranes. Now this is where things get really interesting: after 8-24 hours there's more salt in the meat, and more water has to be retained to balance it - that's just the osmotic way."

(from: I'm Just Here For the Food)

Obviously, the freezing bit has nothing to do with it. It's just an attempt to arrest the process at a certain point for later convenience. But the most dramatic (non-frozen) example I've experienced of this is our Thanksgiving turkeys. Turkeys can be notorious dry, but after brining the results can be spectacular.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 996
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

working from memory here...so might not be exactly right

sea water will freezes 3-4 degrees below fresh - ie 28-29'F

totally NaCl saturated water - which is almost 30% salt by weight, will freeze at minus 4'F
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shazlovely



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of recipes call for thin sliced chicken breast meat. The breasts should be washed, patted dry, and lightly floured. The idea is that the thin cuts will not require much cooking time and the flour would protect the breast from drying out while it's cooking. This is true, but there's always potential for making a mess when you flour the chicken. I also found that flouring the chicken wasn't as easy as it looked. If you use too much, then the flour falls off in chunks as you cook it. Use too little and it seems like it was pointless to flour the chicken in the first place. My solution? Brine the chicken breasts, skip the flour.
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 354
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shazlovely wrote:
A lot of recipes call for thin sliced chicken breast meat. The breasts should be washed, patted dry, and lightly floured. The idea is that the thin cuts will not require much cooking time and the flour would protect the breast from drying out while it's cooking. This is true, but there's always potential for making a mess when you flour the chicken. I also found that flouring the chicken wasn't as easy as it looked. If you use too much, then the flour falls off in chunks as you cook it. Use too little and it seems like it was pointless to flour the chicken in the first place. My solution? Brine the chicken breasts, skip the flour.


Put flour in a paper sack or plastic bag and shake. Perfect, even dusting in less than 15 seconds. A lot less prep time than a brining for an hour or two.

Biggles
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john2kin



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shazlovely wrote:
A lot of recipes call for thin sliced chicken breast meat. The breasts should be washed, patted dry, and lightly floured. The idea is that the thin cuts will not require much cooking time and the flour would protect the breast from drying out while it's cooking. This is true, but there's always potential for making a mess when you flour the chicken. I also found that flouring the chicken wasn't as easy as it looked. If you use too much, then the flour falls off in chunks as you cook it. Use too little and it seems like it was pointless to flour the chicken in the first place. My solution? Brine the chicken breasts, skip the flour.

hmmm this is true i agree with you and i like it Wink
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Irenes



Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that one has to be careful when brining such thin slices. You can easily over-salt the meat.
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