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Mug bottoms - filled with water in the dishwasher
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GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrBiggles:

I have used the West epoxy, both in my darkroom and my friend's sailboat, and it pours just like maple syrup, not cold honey and it is not stringy as it pours. Coefficient of expansion and heat during the drying cycle may well be considerations on glazed surfaces, but not on unglazed. Afterall, the tooth colored fillings and dental porcelain laminates (bonded with BIS-GMA/EPOXIDE bonded adhesives) withstand tremendous stress/strain and thermal cycling for millions of cycles on etched, sandblasted or other unglazed ceramic, glass and metallic surfaces.

As far as polysulfide rubber is concerned, we stopped using the brown polysulfide in dental impression materials almost 20 years ago. The stuff looks, smells and tastes gross, at least until it polymerizes in the mouth. Maybe your black version is better, but doesn't your polysulfide rubber require an adhesive to the substrate? Our impression materials did. I mean you could mix and pour the stuff on a countertop, wait for it to set and peel it off.

As far as RTV silicone is concerned, I have used it to repair broken off mug handles and they have survived dishwasher use for years until the mug met with other catastrophes. I'm not sure the cloudy or frosted appearance is a problem on mug bottoms, unless they are clear, glass bottom mugs which would lose their esthetic value.

I'm curious about your polysulfides and the possible lack of need for an adhesive. Your company isn't Morton Thiokol, aka Thiokol Chemical Corp is it?
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaryProtein wrote:
DrBiggles:

I have used the West epoxy, both in my darkroom and my friend's sailboat, and it pours just like maple syrup, not cold honey and it is not stringy as it pours. Coefficient of expansion and heat during the drying cycle may well be considerations on glazed surfaces, but not on unglazed. Afterall, the tooth colored fillings and dental porcelain laminates (bonded with BIS-GMA/EPOXIDE bonded adhesives) withstand tremendous stress/strain and thermal cycling for millions of cycles on etched, sandblasted or other unglazed ceramic, glass and metallic surfaces.

As far as polysulfide rubber is concerned, we stopped using the brown polysulfide in dental impression materials almost 20 years ago. The stuff looks, smells and tastes gross, at least until it polymerizes in the mouth. Maybe your black version is better, but doesn't your polysulfide rubber require an adhesive to the substrate? Our impression materials did. I mean you could mix and pour the stuff on a countertop, wait for it to set and peel it off.

As far as RTV silicone is concerned, I have used it to repair broken off mug handles and they have survived dishwasher use for years until the mug met with other catastrophes. I'm not sure the cloudy or frosted appearance is a problem on mug bottoms, unless they are clear, glass bottom mugs which would lose their esthetic value.

I'm curious about your polysulfides and the possible lack of need for an adhesive. Your company isn't Morton Thiokol, aka Thiokol Chemical Corp is it?


Naw, we manufacture a fancy line of epoxies, a few polyurethanes and a few other oddities for mainly the marine industry. But our polysulfide product is based from the thiokol resin and is an absolutely tenacious adhesive. A formulation we made of it is holding down a portion of the Alaskan pipeline at the bottom of some sound somewhere. We bedded our building in it maybe 25 or so years ago and it's still stuck and flexible. My boss says he got the formula from the air force years ago, they used it for gluing down aluminum jet aircraft skins. It's a bitch to use though, mixes 10:1 by weight and you have to use a digital scale to measure, no fun.

If the stuff they stopped using for dental impressionswas thiokol based, they could have stopped it because the catalyst is based heavily with lead. Still excellent on boats though, ours is now mostly used for deck seams (kinda runny).

As far as pourability goes, tt would depend on the temperature of where you do your work. Our climate here is usually cool and any resin thickens up. Even our runnier ones get quite slow in the pouring.

I have a bee in my bonnet with West. For years we weren't even allowed in the store because they had a presence there. Even though most of our products don't compete, just having the word epoxy on the label was enough. That's okay, it gives me the warmies when a customer calls and they were sent by the tech team there.

Biggles
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GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you're not with Morton Thiokol or their other monikers. They made the O-Rings for the Challenger. Anger Anger Anger Anger Anger Anger

http://cmnu531.blogspot.com/2006/02/morton-thiokols-involvement-after.html
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EngineeringProfessor



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Mug bottoms - filled with water in the dishwasher Reply with quote

drfrank wrote:
I'm tired of my mug bottoms holding water, soap and grit after the wash cycle is over.

An idea I had recently: Fill the mug bottoms with epoxy, so they're nice and flat. But what sort of epoxy to use? Any ideas?

Do you have a better solution for this timeless curse? (Preferably one that doesn't involve replacing my mugs...)


Good grief, here's your solution:

1) Use/buy/accept no mugs with deep bottom cavities.

2) Tilt mugs in the DW. You don't put bowls right side up do you? Discipline yields predictable and acceptable results.

3) Forget the epoxy idea. Jeez, take about your hazardous substances. What will the epoxy do in the microwave?
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: Mug bottoms - filled with water in the dishwasher Reply with quote

EngineeringProfessor wrote:
drfrank wrote:
I'm tired of my mug bottoms holding water, soap and grit after the wash cycle is over.

An idea I had recently: Fill the mug bottoms with epoxy, so they're nice and flat. But what sort of epoxy to use? Any ideas?

Do you have a better solution for this timeless curse? (Preferably one that doesn't involve replacing my mugs...)


Good grief, here's your solution:

1) Use/buy/accept no mugs with deep bottom cavities.

2) Tilt mugs in the DW. You don't put bowls right side up do you? Discipline yields predictable and acceptable results.

3) Forget the epoxy idea. Jeez, take about your hazardous substances. What will the epoxy do in the microwave?


Once epoxy is cured, it's inert. But when you microwave it, it becomes a dessert topping. Not sure what happens to your beer, probably ruins that too.
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Smithjoe1



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why dont you just file a little slit into the bottom of each mug, Ikea brought out something with it already done, just a slit for the water to drain out.

I cant find it on Ikea's website any more but http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/09/11/ikea_trofe_mug_dishwasherowned.html shows it good enough to get the idea of what it is doing.
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GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithjoe1 wrote:
Why dont you just file a little slit into the bottom of each mug, Ikea brought out something with it already done, just a slit for the water to drain out.

I cant find it on Ikea's website any more but http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/09/11/ikea_trofe_mug_dishwasherowned.html shows it good enough to get the idea of what it is doing.



I hate to be a devil's advocate, well, not always,Big smile Big smile Big smile Big smile but the little notch requires you tilt the mug on the dishwasher rack in a particular direction for the water to drain. If there were three or four little notches, it would be better because they would rain no matter how they were positioned. Seriously, in a glass and metal mug, you could probably file a few slits to act as a drain. In a ceramic mug, it would be more difficult depending on the tools you had at home.

Don't mind us, I think at this point, we're just poking holes in each other's methods for preventing water build-up!
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the little slits / cuts / groves actually prevent a suction cup effect should the mug be set down is on a wet surface . . .
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithjoe1 wrote:
Why dont you just file a little slit into the bottom of each mug, Ikea brought out something with it already done, just a slit for the water to drain out.

I cant find it on Ikea's website any more but http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/09/11/ikea_trofe_mug_dishwasherowned.html shows it good enough to get the idea of what it is doing.


Yeah, but those nasty little food particles that are lolling about in the water will collect in the slit or slits. After a while you'll get quite a buildup and possibly grow some nasty bacteria. You'll run the risk of spreading these onto your counters/tables then very possibly making yourself and/or your family quite ill.

You'd want to make a device that could clean these slits with ease, maybe even an automatic one.

Biggles
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GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the better dishwashers have a spray arm on top that sprays downward. That would wash off the little food particles that got caught in the slits on the mug bottoms. Then you could keep all those pesky mugs simply by changing dishwashers. Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud


Is the solution worse than the problem yet?????????????
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 355
Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaryProtein wrote:
Some of the better dishwashers have a spray arm on top that sprays downward. That would wash off the little food particles that got caught in the slits on the mug bottoms. Then you could keep all those pesky mugs simply by changing dishwashers. Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud


Is the solution worse than the problem yet?????????????


Hmmm, let me call Chrysler and ask.

I got one of those rigs that spray from the top and still get 'bits'. Plus, around the seal of the dishwasher's door is some serious MUCK I have to clean away on a regular basis.

I guess that's what I get for spending nearly 700 dollars for a dumb dishwasher.

Biggles
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