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Equipment & Gear: Kitchen Knives
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jagstyle



Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 45
Location: CA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: whetstone grit Reply with quote

rads wrote:
Just a word on whetstones. Grits are different for different Materials. Ceramic vs. diamond vs. natural vs. aluminum oxide. A 600 grit aluminum oxide stone is comparable to 2000 grit ceramic stone. If you are a novice or if you regularly pay to have your knives sharpened, check out the edge pro apex. It basically sets the angle for you and is pretty dummy proof. If you donít know what you are doing with a whetstone you will kill you blade. The Apex is pricey but not as pricey as having your knives professionally sharpened all the time.

http://www.accuratesharp.com/edge-pro.htm


Grit is grit. It refers to a certain particle size. The material of the abrasive particle is irrelevant. The difference occurs when abrasive manufactures use different systems of measure:

sharpening stone grit sizes/comparisons
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GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: whetstone grit Reply with quote

[quote="jagstyle"]Grit is grit. It refers to a certain particle size. The material of the abrasive particle is irrelevant. [/quote]

Grit is grit, and while the particle size may be the same, a diamond stone will have more cutting power than an aluminum oxide stone, which will have more cutting power than an Arkansas stone. A harder stone will cut faster because the abrasive crystals (on a macro/microscopic scale) will not break during use, and a stone with an optimal space between grit particles for the grindings to fall and not clog the stone's cutting surface as metal filings fall off the knife will also cut faster. A softer stone, regardless of grit, will lose its manufactured shape faster than a harder stone. If your blade angle is set to exactly what you want and it is almost razor sharp, and you just want to give it a mirror finish, then a soft stone could be fine. For coarser sharpening, a harder stone like diamond, zirconium oxide or aluminum oxide (in decreasing order) would be more beneficial, and it would not necessarily need to be a coarse grit size because the diamond would not wear out and the shape of the stone would remain essentially unchanged during extended use.

There are several variables in what makes an effective sharpening stone and your goal in each sharpening step also factors into what makes an effective sharpening stone.


Last edited by GaryProtein on Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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rads
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the explanation. What I meant was that a 1000 grit Japanese whetstone is not necessarily finer than a 600 grit DMT diamond stone. What I didnít know was why so thanks for the information.

Also I saw in one of your posts a list of knives you felt superior to Shun. I was considering a Shun and was wondering why these were better. The only ones that I would consider is the misono ux10 or the Powdered High Speed Tool Steel Series because they looks like kitchen tools and not a museum pieces. It is close enough in price to Shun.

IMHO this is what makes a good knife (for cooking)

1. Sharp enough to slice a ripe tomato using only the weight of the knife. I realize that some of the knives are sharp enough to perform circumcisions on house flies in mid flight, but this is not necessary for kitchen work.
2. The ability to be honed regularly.
3. The ability to be re-sharpened when needed.
4. Solid construction. A handle that will not break.
5. Good balance.

I prefer a knife with some heft. This is one reason that I donít like the Global or Mac. I want a forged knife. Global does make a forged knife but it is only available in Japan. If you have ever seen this knife I would like an opinion on it (my brother might be going to Japan in a few months.[quote]Grit is grit. It refers to a certain particle size. The material of the abrasive particle is irrelevant. The difference occurs when abrasive manufactures use different systems of measure:
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you guys have it all wrong. ginsu is the best knife out there. it can even cut marble.
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SirSpice



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
you guys have it all wrong. ginsu is the best knife out there. it can even cut marble.


my lightsaber owns ginsu knives
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interested in some good knives:

I've been doing some research on this forum and have found it to be very
helpful. Interested in opionions on the Henckels Twin Cermax 66 and what is the difference between those and the Twin Cermax, besides price.

The 8" Twin Cermax 66 Chef's knife, I haven't found for any less than $189.95. I like the looks of these, but are they that much better than some knives costing less?

Thanks for any info you can gve me.

Bill
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jagstyle



Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 45
Location: CA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The M66 line features an exotic powdered steel @ 66 Rockwell

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=9688

http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=14728

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David
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Choice of knives and sharpening methods Reply with quote

Back in the early 70s when I bought my first set of sabatier knives, the stainless knives were unsharpenable garbage, so I got plain carbon steel. They are still in daily use, but I no longer recommend carbon--it can't be put in the dishwasher, can't be left wet, and looks like hell.

In those days German chefs' knives had more of a knuckle toward the tip, so they were more easily rocked. French knives had a more even curve to the edge, so they were better for slicing motions. I do have a 10" F. Dick of that vintage, and it still has the knuckle, though you only see it by comparison with the sabatier.

Now I get knives based on the feel in my hand. Thus, I never got used to my Chinese cleaver, and eventually relegated it to the cellar (of course, this meant I used the big F.Dick chefs' knife to bash garlic and popped one of the rivets in the handle, so I got a western cleaver, which is used for little else.

I have two utility knives--a Mac and a no-name with a wooden handle. I like the feel of the no-name better! (But the Mac takes and holds an edge better). I found the Mac in a thrift shop, dead dull but otherwise apparently unused. It took about an hour to sharpen on the diamond hones, and is now about as good as any I've ever seen.

I find I don't use paring knives to any substantial extent, so I haven't replaced the old sabatiers. My wife, however, uses paring knives where I would use an 8" chef's knife or a 7" santuko. I've been looking at paring knives (not too hard), but so far haven't found any that are more comfortable than the old sabatiers. I do have a set of paring knives with color coded handles, but find I don't need them. Between every use of the knives and cutting board I wash them with hot water, a brush, and either germicidal soap or cleanser with bleach.)

Yes, I did buy a 7" santuko a year ago because it was cheap. Unfortunately, farberware doesn't hold an edge well, though I can sharpen it pretty well with a diamond steel followed by a regular fine steel. I have a 10" santuko from J.C.Penny, but haven't found any use for it.

In addition to my forstener boning knife and an old chicago cuttlery carbon steel, I find that I use a cheap stainless knife a lot: it's just the thing for cutting cheesecakes, where I have to dip in hot water between cuts! I also have a cheap paring knife from a thrift shop that I filed down to 1/4 inch (6 mm) wide--it's just right for loosening cakes from pans, but not much else.

For real sharpening, I got a 4-sided diamond stone (harborfreight.com) in a plastic stand. It has 200 through 600 grits, and then I use the steels. This can reshape an edge to any angle. I habitually sharpen to something closer to 15 degrees than 20. This means that the blade gets dull a bit more quickly. (For strength, carpenters tools are sharpened to the regular sharpness, and then a "back bevel" is put on the very edge, making it stronger and less likely to turn.)

I still have my old carburundum and washita stones, but no longer use them, now that diamond stones have gotten cheap.

For bread and tomatoes I use knives with wavy serations (not microserrations). I also have a long slicer with those serrations, which I use mostly for leveling cakes. Again, I selected the bread knife by its feel, I have a couple of slicers--a long sabatier, and an even longer gerber and a forshner I got at a restaurant supply house. (And a very thin no-name blade that I use for salmon. It's a molybdenum-vanadium steel, so it will take an edge, if I use the diamond hone.)

The point is that you can put a decent edge on any blade, if you have technique--and if you can learn to slice quickly and evenly, you can develop the technique: it's just a matter of hand-eye coordination and making repeatable motions. But the usability of the knife depends on the balance, the fit of the handle, and how slippery it gets. Thus, wood would still be best, except it's hard to keep clean, since it's damaged by water.

Remember, knife safety is all about control. If the knife isn't dead dull, then it's a matter of feel. That's why I use the no-name utility knife more than the Mac, even though the Mac will hold its edge much better (the other reason is that it has a sharp point, which is sometimes useful. The Mac's offset handle is good, but I can compensate by moving my cutting board to the edge of the counter.)

I have several dough knives. The one I use most is all stainless with a rounded handle. However, I have an old maple one, and a new nylon one and a couple of plastic dough scrapers. I use those when scraping pastry dough off the granite counter, or when cleaning bowls, but not for general use on one of my several poly cutting boards (the old wooden boards are down the basement--I now knead bread dough on commericial weight poly, held in place by one of those rubber mesh shelf linings put under it. (the shelf lining can be loosely rolled and put in the dishwasher, even on sanitizer cycle, and it survives.)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Japanese Blades Reply with quote

Quote:

Carter
Dojo
Glestain
Haslinger
Hattori
Hiromoto
Ichimonji Mitsuhide
Ittosai
Ittosai Kotetsu
MAC
Masahiro
Masamoto
Mashahiro
Misono
Nenox
Ryusen
Suisin
Takeda
Tojiro
Watanabe



I am looking for the best quality Japanese blade. $100 above, but not $1000 above like the Hatori KD which I think you would be paying extra for aesthetic reasons.

Which brands should I avoid and which brand should I aim for?
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victorpo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Japanese Blades Reply with quote

What about Kasumi blades? There's not one mention about it here.
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jagstyle



Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 45
Location: CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Japanese Blades Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Quote:

Carter
Dojo
Glestain
Haslinger
Hattori
Hiromoto
Ichimonji Mitsuhide
Ittosai
Ittosai Kotetsu
MAC
Masahiro
Masamoto
Mashahiro
Misono
Nenox
Ryusen
Suisin
Takeda
Tojiro
Watanabe



I am looking for the best quality Japanese blade. $100 above, but not $1000 above like the Hatori KD which I think you would be paying extra for aesthetic reasons.


Ryusen Blazen over anything else from any maker on that list (expect the outrageous Hattori KD of course).

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/RYUSEN.html

http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=224&cat=Blazen
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DanB



Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Paring knives Reply with quote

David,

If you're looking for a great paring knife, I've never used anything better than the Global GS-7. It feels different than the chef's knife, so even people who don't like the big Global's might like this. I find it immensely comfortable and sharp as all hell--like Global's typically.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with the cutco lovers; it's still the best set of knives in my books! plus, they can resharpen the single bladed knives for you, and if there's a problem with the double bladed/serrated-like knives, they can replace them for you, free of charge (in canada anyway). i tried working for the company but i couldn't do the whole selling knives thing to friends or people i knew. i use them myself though, and plan on getting the garlic press too.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a pair of Cutco knives: the paring knife and the vegetable knife, the latter of which sort of resembles a cleaver in that it has no point.

I kind of like the paring knife. It's a little longer blade than most paring knives, which works for me, and the handle is comfortable. However, essentially the same handle on the larger vegetable knife doesn't feel secure. Also, as the blade is essentially flat but for a small curvature just at the end, it's basically useless for mincing, which is one of the chief elements of vegetable prep.

Finally, re: Cutco: their knives are easier to sharpen and take a wicked edge relative to my Henckels knives, but they don't hold the edge well at all.

My next knife purchase will probably be a Gyuto. I'm smitten with the Tojiro HD-8 240mm with the Damascus steel. Soooo pretty.
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New Tojiro Owner
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Tojiro Reply with quote

I have recently purchased a tojiro Gyuto, boning knife, and paring knife. Unbelievable sharpness right out of the box, Rockwell hardness of 61, and lighter than most western brands. The gyotu cuts tomatoes as easily as a serrated bread knife. It also carves roasts easily. If you rock your blade, you will love these Japanese knives. If you are a chopper, a heavier western knife might suit you better.

Anyone use the Wustof Le Cordon Bleu knives? I like the fact that they do not have a full bolster. Any thoughts?
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