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Black Steel Pizza Pans
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pj_rage



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I tried again to crisp my crust, to no avail. 550* again, ~1 hour preheat of the stone. Bottom was pretty much black again, almost/sorta burnt. However, it was still not crispy! The black/brown layer of burnt (cripsy LOOKING) crust goes in about 1/16", but still is soft and chewy. It must be the dough itself. Can someone suggest a recipe that might crisp up? I have tried a few different combos, but here is the basic one that doesn't work:

16oz flour
9.25oz water
2.5 tsp active dry yeast
1.125 tsp sugar
1.625 tsp salt
0.5oz oil

So, why is it burnt, look crispy, yet tastes chewy! FWIW, usually, under the crust, it is a little crispy Huh? (although usually more burnt).
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crisp and Chewy is something I actually look for. But you might try substituting 2 Tbs of shortening for the oil. This should drive it a little more towards cracker land.

You might also try it without the sugar. This should result in less leavening.

And if you're not using bread (preferably) or unbleached flour, you might give that a try.

You could also try autolysing the dough. Once you've incorporated the wet and dry ingredients, let it sit for 20 minutes before kneading. Then knead for 7-10 minutes.

Finally, get the dough as thin as you can. Paper thin if possible. This is easier to manage in a pan. For thin crust pizza, I use 9-10 oz of dough for an 18" pizza. It has to be pretty thin for that amount of dough to cover that much area (but I bet I could use even less if pressed).

My newest basic dough is based loosely on Michael's baguette formula:

500g Bread Flour
350g Water
5g Yeast (active dry)
10g Olive Oil
10g Salt (added only after a couple of minutes of kneading)

But don't change everything at once. I've recently found that once a good approximate dough it found, you can more confidently try variations.
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pj_rage



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, if you haven't checked out encyclopizza, you should Teasing http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/_home_encyclopizza.htm

It is pretty awesome. The basic recipe I listed that I've been trying is their all-purpose. I've tried a few of the others as well. They have SO much info there, but I haven't had time to run through it all. I think I will try some shortening instead of oil, and maybe another batch with no sugar. I've really been trying alot of things lately, maybe too many changes at once even Big smile

Thanks again for the for the tips!
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Howard



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/board,28.0.html
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CookNewb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might the pans you are talking about be soapstone pans? (see link below)

http://www.metaefficient.com/archives/kitchen-products/soapstone-highly-efficient-for-cooking.html
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pj_rage



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I made some headway with my problem. Today I pulled the whole stone out and left the pizza on it for 5-10min and voila! crispy crust!

So, I figured out a way to achieve my goal.

Thanks for the help.
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although this thread is over a year old, for posterity, I'd like to add that perhaps my original question is answered with the letters PSTK (Pre Seasoned Tuff Kote).

http://www.lloydpans.com/SearchByCategory.aspx?CategoryCode=Deep_Dish_Stacking

My Little Caesars pans haven't worn out yet, so I'm not offically in the market yet, but they do have a lot of diameter options... But if anyone get's one of the before I do, please do post your results. These look like the real deal.

I have yet to link this to a major commercial concern (i.e. Little Ceasar's or Pizza hut), but it seems like it does have a commercial following on http://www.pmq.com which I found via Howard's link to http://www.pizzamaking.com.

To me, these two sites enjoy a wonderful sort of symbiosis. Pizzamaking.com is for pizza enthusiasts who may or may not be thinking of going commercial, whereas pmq.com is a commercial pizza magazine for the pizza industry. I've spent quite a bit of time reading forums on both sites this weekend and, what's interesting to me is that they both feed off of each other. Posters at pmq regularly refer pizza making newbies to pizzamaking.com and pizzamaking.com posters almost always refer questions like "I'm thinking about going into the pizza business..." to pmq.com.

For the pizza enthusiast, both sites, IMHO, are instant Favorites.
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lloydrep



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your quest for the pizza pans you bought are indeed probably made by Lloyd Industries. I am a marketing rep for Lloyd and confirm that we do sell deep dish pizza pans to some Little Caesar's. Our pans are made so well that many pans we sold 10 years ago are still in use. The dark color is a process called hard coat anodizing and makes the pan 30% harder than stainless steel.
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csasaki



Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:01 am    Post subject: Black Steel Reply with quote

IndyRob wrote:
I don't know if these are "black steel" or not since some are scratched and I can see shiny metal underneath the black finish. I've seen black steel pans referred to in many pizza recipes but the only source I've ever found seemed to be a wholesaler....So, what are these things and where do they come from? What makes them superior? I saw the pan pizza recipe here and no special pan seemed to be used. This encouraged me to try again with a normal sheet pan and the results were predictably pale underneath. I know I can get, say, a dinner roll, to brown on the bottom on a normal pan. But these pans are doing something more. I don't know why.


I think you are looking for these pans - Black carbon Steel is carbon steel put through higher temps. Or as one online site describes ""Black" Steel is not painted or coated steel. It is simply a steel which has undergone a form of heat treatment which gives it its black color, and which protects it temporarily against oxidation."

Here is a place to get them. THe contact page has a US distributor.
http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id=49&cat=17&background=bleu1&start=12
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pizzaguy



Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize this post has been around for quite a while but I stumbled on it in google while looking for something else and being an engineer by education and having been a bakery chef by choice for a number of years and also having run my own pizza store and currently working for a company that refurbishes pizza ovens, I might be able to give a hand here.

First, Lloyd's is the Cadillac of pizza pans. The anodized black aluminum pans or as they call it, PSTK (pre-seasoned tuff kote) is great stuff. The other way to get that effect is via the seasoning of aluminum pans. Follow the following steps:
* Wash in hot, sudsy water
* Rinse, dry well
* Coat lightly with Pam, or a similar Canola-based spray and polish the oil on with a paper towel or rag.
(Important: Do not use soy products as these contribute to sticking.)
* Run products through a 400-475F oven for approximately 5 minutes.
* Cool to room temperature.
* Repeat three times.

Second, you want to make sure that if you have an aluminum pan, it is a heavy weight aluminum. Most of the pans sold for home use are very lightweight. You can usually tell by the price, the lower it is the lighter the aluminum.

Third, the problem might not be with the pan or stone, it might be with the type of flour you are using and the amount of water in the dough. The crustiest pizza comes from a high-gluten flour. Gluten refers to the amount of protein in the flour. For more information on dough mixing and recipes I highly recommend the dough doctor, Tom Lehman at PMQ and the non-profit organization where he works American Institute of Baking. Most grocery stores and health food stores sell gluten by itself in their bakery aisles. Just add a tablespoon or so per pizza that you are making to the flour and mix it evenly before adding anything else.

Fourth, while my company, Pizza Equipment Supply, Inc primarily refurbishes and sells pizza ovens, we often buy out whole stores including their pizza pans and have used, well seasoned pans for sell of various sizes. You can check out our websites Pizza Equipment Supply, Inc and PESI. I believe, we currently have some used, well seasoned pizza pans listed on our eBay store or you can call us at 704-629-0000 between 8 AM and 5 PM EST and ask about the used pizza pans.

Feel free to ask for me as well when you call, Don Kidd.

To the moderator and forum at large, I apologize for the blatant advertising but felt in this case it would be helpful to those interested in getting used commercial pans and pertinent to the theme of the original post.
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chef4257
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: pizza pans Reply with quote

the pans that everyone seems to be looking for ARE black steel, and made in mexico. very hard to find.
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