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Tender lamb curry

 
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EngineeringProfessor



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Tender lamb curry Reply with quote

How do I make "Indian Restaurant" lamb curry?

The recipe I have makes everything perfect, except the lamb does not have that "melt in your mouth" tenderness.

I cut up a pound or so of lamb (steaks, leg, etc.) into chunks.

I brown the chunks along with some onion.

I add a can of diced tomatoes, water and Patak's Extra Hot Curry paste.

Simmer the whole thing for about 20-30 minutes.

This recipe works great, smooth, tasty and spicy sauce, but the lamb does not come out tender--am I cooking too long, not long enough? Should I do something to the lamb first? Is it the cut of lamb I am using?

TIA
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cynicalb



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi EP,

Let's first make an assumption that you are using a cut of lamb that is conducive to braising (which is effectively what you are doing). That is, it has a fair amount of connective tissue, or collagen. Cuts like the shoulder, leg, cheaper steaks, etc. Not the ribs or the loin.

I think that you are not cooking it long enough. To effectively render high collagen containing cuts nice and tender, you have to maintain a temperature near the boiling point of water for an extended period of time. Thus, the meat should be in excess of 200F for at least an hour and a half. This helps dissolve the collagen and creat a tender result. Also, to make sure that you have the proper environment while braising, make sure the pot that you are cooking it in is covered. This will maintain the temperature needed, reduce moisture loss, and require little heat input.

If you have a copy, or can get a copy, please refer to "On Food and Cooking", 1984, p. 120-121.

Try this out and let us know how it works.

Best Regards,

cynicalb
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EngineeringProfessor



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: ...the elusive tender lamb. Reply with quote

cynicalb wrote:

Try this out and let us know how it works.

Best Regards,

cynicalb


I am sort of looking for someone who regularly makes tender lamb curry to tell me how they do it. Scientists experiment, engineers design. I'm looking for a workable design here.

Thanks for the lesson on braising though.
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Mamafishy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject: Tender lamb? Reply with quote

Please remember that it may not even be a lamb dish you were trying to duplicate- SOME restaurants are not adverse to using cuts of goat meat and calling it lamb. Goat meat in my experience can be much more tender and gelatinous and less gamey than lamb. Also, if the restaurant meat was marinated a while in a yoghurt-based or acid-containing marinade or even one containing a meat tenderiser, it would also end up a very different texture.
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EngineeringProfessor



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: Tender lamb? Reply with quote

Mamafishy wrote:
Please remember that it may not even be a lamb dish you were trying to duplicate- SOME restaurants are not adverse to using cuts of goat meat and calling it lamb. Goat meat in my experience can be much more tender and gelatinous and less gamey than lamb. Also, if the restaurant meat was marinated a while in a yoghurt-based or acid-containing marinade or even one containing a meat tenderiser, it would also end up a very different texture.


The Indian restaurants that I have eaten in have been, at least in appearance, reputable enough not to substitute goat for lamb--such a switch would be hard to keep hidden for long and the lawsuits would be, well, let's say that they would be far more intense than what they might experience in India. I have had lamb curry in many states and many cities--not all have been perfect, but the ones that have are memorable.

Besides, I have had goat curry (Pakistani's seem to favor it) and feel fairly confident that I could tell the difference. In fact, I like them both, but goat appears far less often on the menu, possibly due to American tastes. Goat is associated with 3rd world countries, satan, petting zoos, who knows?

I made lamb curry last week and discovered that I was indeed, as one cynic pointed out, not cooking it long enough. However, his (or her) suggested hour and a half would have rendered the meat to mush, an hour turned out to be perfect.

So, thanks for all the suggestions--in spite of the incongruency of the phrase, I have reached Nirvana with my lamb curry.
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cynicalb



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: Tender lamb? Reply with quote

EngineeringProfessor wrote:
However, his (or her) suggested hour and a half would have rendered the meat to mush, an hour turned out to be perfect.


Hi EP,

His. Glad it turned out fine. It makes sense that an hour was sufficient. Much of the time spent in braising is just getting the cut of meat to temperature. Once there, the collagen breaks down relatively quickly. You are dealing with small cuts of meat that will get up to 200F quicker than a single, large cut of meat. An hour and a half or longer would be fine for a single, large cut of meat, but I agree would turn smaller cubes of meat to mush.

As I was once told by an old engineer when I was just starting college - everything is controlled by thermodynamics.

Later,

cb
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EngineeringProfessor



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:17 am    Post subject: Lamb curry update.... Reply with quote

Once again I made Lamb Curry and once again it came out excellent.

I have discovered that the recipe works fine with the absolutely cheapest lamb cuts imaginable. This makes sense given that the recipe was most likely developed in a simmering stewpot over an open fire rather than destined for the Maharajah's table--assuming the diners were Muslim as opposed to Hindi or Buddhist. In any event, the Maharajah would appreciate this dish.
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techiecowboy



Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Workable design.....Another thing that helps cook the meat is adding the tomate later in the recipe. This way the acid in the tomato does not stop the tenderizing action till the end...But do let it simmer a bit after adding the tomate otherwise you will get the raw tomate flavor.
Also, marinate the meat in pretty much all the spices including salt and 1/4 of oil that you use in the recipe, helps coat the spices all over better and the salts heps in tenderizing... Remember salts helps you cook.
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watt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the meat served as 'mutton' in India is goat, there are far more goats than sheep in India, so mutton/lamb dishes really are meant to be goat dishes, and flavoured accordingly. (Hindus eat goat as well as Muslims!) BTW, the beef sold in India is water buffalo except in Kerala, where it is pukka beef.

If you cut your meat up into small chunks, then either make a quick fry dish (with costlier cuts) or cook cheaper cuts covered with much water, as a stew. If the meat is kept whole (on the bone), cook as a braise, in a little water and fat, both at lower temperatures to reduce the shrinkage of the meat which will become tough and tasteless at higher temperatures.

Examples of 'stews' are vindaloo, dhansak and dalcha, braises are kormas, including rogan josh and dopiaz.

just thoughts
Watt
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