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Ways to melt the fat while retaining the juiciness
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Comolongo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Ways to melt the fat while retaining the juiciness Reply with quote

When you poach or simmer a piece of pork, would you still run the risk of overcooking and drying it out? At what temperature does pork start to lose its juiciness and at what temperature does fat begin to melt out of meat?
I'm trying to figure out a low heat method that can melt out all/most of the fat in a large piece of pork while still being able to retain its juiciness. I'm thinking poaching or braising might be the way to go. Does anyone have any suggestions on that one?
Thanks a lot!
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Taamar



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um... that fat IS the juiciness.
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
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Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taamar wrote:
Um... that fat IS the juiciness.


Exactly. The key is to keep your heat low enough so you don't cook the fat out.
In my smoker, I keep the temperature around 225F. In my oven at home, I"ll do 300.

The internal temperature can vary depending on what you like. I'll pull mine from 180 to 200 or so. It could take a few hours to all day depending on how large your roast is.

Remember to take your time, rush nothing and keep an eye on the internal temp.

Fat=Flavor

Biggles

ps - I'll sometimes lay strips of bacon over the roast for extra Flavor.
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Taamar



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll pull mine from 180 to 200 or so.


Good lord, I pull a pork roast at 145 and let carryover take it to 155-160.
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GaryProtein



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrBiggles said: The internal temperature can vary depending on what you like. I'll pull mine from 180 to 200 or so. It could take a few hours to all day depending on how large your roast is.

Taamar said: Good lord, I pull a pork roast at 145 and let carryover take it to 155-160.


Are both of you talking about the same thing?? I could be wrong, but I am under the impression that DrBiggles is talking about making pulled BBQ pork (shredded with a pair of forks) while Taamar sounds like he is talking about when he takes a pork roast out of the oven to slice/carve and eat it. I think both of you could be correct if I am interpreting you both correctly.
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaryProtein wrote:
DrBiggles said: The internal temperature can vary depending on what you like. I'll pull mine from 180 to 200 or so. It could take a few hours to all day depending on how large your roast is.

Taamar said: Good lord, I pull a pork roast at 145 and let carryover take it to 155-160.


Are both of you talking about the same thing?? I could be wrong, but I am under the impression that DrBiggles is talking about making pulled BBQ pork (shredded with a pair of forks) while Taamar sounds like he is talking about when he takes a pork roast out of the oven to slice/carve and eat it. I think both of you could be correct if I am interpreting you both correctly.


Nope and you're right. I like pork shoulder at the higher temperatures so it's juicy and pulls apart. I like a pork loin or leaner pork at 143 to 145 and if I know where the pork came from, lower.

Biggles
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting situation here. the TITLE of the thread asks a different question than the body of the initial post.

you can DISSOLVE AWAY fat by creating large amounts of surface area ("grind"), then wash with an alcohol
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imike24



Joined: 11 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. Another solution is eat more vegetables and fruits.
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opqdan



Joined: 25 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that poaching pork will result in a much jucier end product. As the meat cooks, the muscle fibers contract and force liquid out of the meat. This is an unavoidable consequence of cooking.

Plus, poached pork would be gross. You'd have none of those delicious maillard products.

The only solution is to force the meat to absorb more liquid before it is cooked so that when it releases some, a good portion will still be left. This could be accomplished with a brine (brines also do other things to the meat also).

If you want to look at ways to cook the meat just to temperature, and then quickly sear the outside, you might want to look into sous vide cooking. This requires a pretty heavy cost up front for an immersion circulator or other temerature control device.

You could also, go the pulled pork methode. By the time the meat is shreddable tender, it is very dry, but fortunaty the liquid that gets mixed with it when you shred it adds a faux juciness to it.

Personally, I don't think there is much you can do. Unfortunatly, pork is just dry. Brining it long enough to have any real effect leads to the meat being overly salty, and cooking it to USDA temps results in a piece of shoe leather.

And, as other posters mentioned. The fat is a major component of the 'juiciness'. That is why pork is so dog-gone dry, it is fairly lean.
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
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Location: Richmond, CA

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

opqdan wrote:
I don't think that poaching pork will result in a much jucier end product. As the meat cooks, the muscle fibers contract and force liquid out of the meat. This is an unavoidable consequence of cooking.

Plus, poached pork would be gross. You'd have none of those delicious maillard products.

The only solution is to force the meat to absorb more liquid before it is cooked so that when it releases some, a good portion will still be left. This could be accomplished with a brine (brines also do other things to the meat also).

If you want to look at ways to cook the meat just to temperature, and then quickly sear the outside, you might want to look into sous vide cooking. This requires a pretty heavy cost up front for an immersion circulator or other temerature control device.

You could also, go the pulled pork methode. By the time the meat is shreddable tender, it is very dry, but fortunaty the liquid that gets mixed with it when you shred it adds a faux juciness to it.

Personally, I don't think there is much you can do. Unfortunatly, pork is just dry. Brining it long enough to have any real effect leads to the meat being overly salty, and cooking it to USDA temps results in a piece of shoe leather.

And, as other posters mentioned. The fat is a major component of the 'juiciness'. That is why pork is so dog-gone dry, it is fairly lean.


If your pork is dry, you're doing it wrong, brining or no. A pork loin roast when cooked to 138 to 140 and allowed to rest, is juicy. Slow roasting a shoulder roast to 200 whether it be in a slow oven or smoker, is juicy. A pork sirloin roast cooked either way, is juicy. And by juice, I mean when you cut the meat, juices collect around the cutting board. You have plenty of juice to pour over meat. It's juicy. Pork is only dry when you buy bad pork or you cook it poorly.

You could also try the traditional method of making Carnitas. This would be a confit of pork. Slow simmering in its own fat for hours until done. Such as with duck or goose (those wacky French). This is also juicy and how my local El Salvadorian restaurants prepare it. Juicy shreds of pork in tacos and pupusas? Heaven. Sorry your pork is dry man!

Biggles
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opqdan



Joined: 25 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrBiggles wrote:
opqdan wrote:
I don't think that poaching pork will result in a much jucier end product. As the meat cooks, the muscle fibers contract and force liquid out of the meat. This is an unavoidable consequence of cooking.

Plus, poached pork would be gross. You'd have none of those delicious maillard products.

The only solution is to force the meat to absorb more liquid before it is cooked so that when it releases some, a good portion will still be left. This could be accomplished with a brine (brines also do other things to the meat also).

If you want to look at ways to cook the meat just to temperature, and then quickly sear the outside, you might want to look into sous vide cooking. This requires a pretty heavy cost up front for an immersion circulator or other temerature control device.

You could also, go the pulled pork methode. By the time the meat is shreddable tender, it is very dry, but fortunaty the liquid that gets mixed with it when you shred it adds a faux juciness to it.

Personally, I don't think there is much you can do. Unfortunatly, pork is just dry. Brining it long enough to have any real effect leads to the meat being overly salty, and cooking it to USDA temps results in a piece of shoe leather.

And, as other posters mentioned. The fat is a major component of the 'juiciness'. That is why pork is so dog-gone dry, it is fairly lean.


If your pork is dry, you're doing it wrong, brining or no. A pork loin roast when cooked to 138 to 140 and allowed to rest, is juicy. Slow roasting a shoulder roast to 200 whether it be in a slow oven or smoker, is juicy. A pork sirloin roast cooked either way, is juicy. And by juice, I mean when you cut the meat, juices collect around the cutting board. You have plenty of juice to pour over meat. It's juicy. Pork is only dry when you buy bad pork or you cook it poorly.

You could also try the traditional method of making Carnitas. This would be a confit of pork. Slow simmering in its own fat for hours until done. Such as with duck or goose (those wacky French). This is also juicy and how my local El Salvadorian restaurants prepare it. Juicy shreds of pork in tacos and pupusas? Heaven. Sorry your pork is dry man!

Biggles
I was basing my post on the USDA's minimum temperature for pork, which is 160F. Of course, I always stop cooking well before this, but I always worry about giving advice with lower temperatures, meaning, I am fine 'undercooking' my own meat, but I won't tell others to do it.

Of course, there is the argument that any wee beasties will be killed off at aroun 140 something anyways, and trichinosis rarely occurs in our pork nowadays anyhow.
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DrBiggles



Joined: 12 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

opqdan wrote:
I was basing my post on the USDA's minimum temperature for pork, which is 160F. Of course, I always stop cooking well before this, but I always worry about giving advice with lower temperatures, meaning, I am fine 'undercooking' my own meat, but I won't tell others to do it.

Of course, there is the argument that any wee beasties will be killed off at aroun 140 something anyways, and trichinosis rarely occurs in our pork nowadays anyhow.


I know, gotta be careful and not get anyone sick. The new magic temperature we're shooting for is 145. Pulling it early as I stated, then with the carry over temperature rise, it gets to 145 or real close.

I also go out of my way to buy meat where I either get to meet the rancher (farmer's markets) or at least I have a pretty good idea as to how it was raised and handled.

Cheers
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Jim Cooley



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone seen a method for Carnitas using a combination of boiling, a long slow oven roast, then broiling?

I saw one once and it looked delicious but can't find it any more.

Have a beef bottom round 3 lbs I'd like to try this method with.
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DrBiggles



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Cooley wrote:
Anyone seen a method for Carnitas using a combination of boiling, a long slow oven roast, then broiling?

I saw one once and it looked delicious but can't find it any more.

Have a beef bottom round 3 lbs I'd like to try this method with.


Ya know, I haven't. My first thought is, "OH boy, boiled beef." Sounds like one of those "BBQ Rib" shortcuts you hear about and try once only to find out it's nasty. Bypass the boiling and do a very long, low temp roasting. My new internal temp for pulled pork or an appropriate cut of beef is about 210. Once that's taken care of, pull/shred the meat. Add the dry rub you used for the exterior portion of the meat to the shredded meat. Toss in to a cast iron skillet with some lard or broil it until the bits get crispy. Serve.

xo, Biggles
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Jim Cooley



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave the roast a simmer for 20 minutes then about 3-4 hours (I fell asleep) at 250 F wrapped in foil. Came out very, very tender but I sliced and didn't try to pull it. Thermometer broke so I don't know the internal temp. (Doh! I should have used the analog one!)

Thanks for the tip re 210 F. I'll try that sometime.
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