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Unrefrigerated Butter
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corderkimmie



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Unrefrigerated Butter Reply with quote

I have an ongoing discussion with my mother-in-law because I leave my butter on the counter in a covered ceramic dish. I live in Berlin, Germany and I have many friends who do this also. Is it safe?
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rexmo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Ttry a butter bell Reply with quote

It uses a water seal to keep butter fresh and soft enough to spread. Change the water periodically.
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1620
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unrefrigerated butter usually only lasts a couple days before it develops undesirables that may change it's smell and flavor. In cold environs, it will last longer.

Covering it on a plat with a standard butter cover (an upside down glass boat) doesn't seem to help much, but as rexmo suggests, any butter keeper that uses a water seal will help extend the life of your room temperature butter. This device will probably allow you to keep the butter for a couple weeks without change in smell, flavor, etc.

For longer term storage, use the refrigerator and the freezer. (I keep a few pound in my feezer, have about one pound in my fridge, and keep about two tablespoons for table use.)
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glenthompson



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, oxygen is the enemy of butter. It makes the oils go rancid. I've had great success with a butter keeper that uses a water seal. I change the water at least weekly or more often. Butter still tastes great after a month and spreads so easily.
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eltonyo



Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 88
Location: WA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

your butter is safe left out... no worries.

and regardless of what type of container you leave it in, assuming you eat the stuff within a couple weeks... imho.

and probably your "mayonnaise" too!

this is what our ancesters did people!!!! hell... this is what my parents did when i was young, and i ain't all that old!

most ol'farmers... never bothered to refrigerate their mayonnaise, let alone butter.

now you can post all your "scary" facts about germs, and ecoli (and people who who easily get sick because they have no immunity)... and i will just laugh, because all good healthy people (not to mention sane people), with strong immune systems, eat the "nasties" for breakfast, and never, ever, ever, pay more money for bottled "sterile" water than they would for bad beer!

hell.... there is a reason the "mexicans" can drink their water, and yoose "sterile" cry-baby, germ chasers can't..... do I have to 'splain why?

do i have to get into arguments on why anti-biotics are on an ever losing battle with people who use them too much?

remember people.... "penicillin" was invented from rotten cheese!

be a man... eat some bacteria, and swim in some shît from time to time.... your ancestors did, and your body will benefit from it!

want some old stinky "cheese" with that?

only the "sterile" get sick.

p.s. now don't sue me if ya get ill.... think of it as your body trying to build some resistance for better or worse! (nothing worth obtaining, comes easy) Smile

p.s.2 for hundreds and hundreds of years.... nobody ever died of "chicken hands". only today. and even now... the fear of it, is your worse germ.
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ktexp2



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I leave butter out all the time. I go through it pretty quick, though. A stick will never last me more than 3 or 4 days, unless I am sick in bed or on vacation. I definitely will pull a stick out of the fridge to soften it for baking, too. Of course, my roommates and I are pretty frugal, and the kitchen is usually about 50 degrees. We wear sweaters - got to keep the gas bill down! There have been occasions that I've come down to make breakfast and the butter on the counter (in its dish with a cover) is almost or just as firm as the butter in the fridge.
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Ray Smillie - OzFire -



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glenthompson wrote:
Remember, oxygen is the enemy of butter. It makes the oils go rancid. .


Actually its the milk solids that go off.
if you strip them out and make GHEE it doesn't need refrigeration at all.

When butter does turn, its the flavour that suffers, it does not become germ infected. some recipes require off butter to develop the right taste, it is not a health risk. mind you I mean turned, not black and moldy.

It's the people who live in a sterile environment who have most to fear from bugs.

Why is the bird flu so scary - people have never been exposed to it before so we have no immunity - it will kill millions if it gets loose - but the next generation will be OK, they would have been exposed, therefore stronger. Sure we will lose a few but the human race will become more resilient.

Remember your history, when the colonisers arrived they brought diseases the local populations had never been exposed to and so millions died of the common cold and other diseases.

Make you kids immunity to disease weak, sterilize everything they touch.
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cynicalb



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hear, hear to Eltonyo, et. al. I never refrigerate butter and have never had a problem. Even during the most hot and humid summers when a stick of butter seems to shimmer because it is about to go liquid. Now, I rarely have a stick of butter last more than a week, but I wouldn't worry about it. I also don't worry about germs - at least not too much. I eat steak and burgers medium rare, at most - and I cook them after they have sat on my counter to come to room temperature. The only time I won't eat leftovers is if I have forgotten them in the back of the fridge and they have started to get fuzzy. I thaw food on the counter or in the sink all the time (only in cold water in the sink). I leave eggs on the counter to come to room temperature then fry them sunny-side up with runny yolks or poach them until they are barely set. Or raw egg egg nog. Steak tartare? Simply delicious. Ditto for carpaccio. Beef liver or lamb chops? Cooked any more than barely medium rare is a travesty. I will cook chicken to well done - just cooked through - but that is because chicken doesn't taste good unless it is cooked through. Pork? Slightly pink in the middle, thank you. I have never (knock on wood) had any stomach trouble from eating like this.

Think about it. Your GI tract is a zoo of bacteria and other little buggy things. Thowing a few more on the pile just keeps your little workers in tip-top shape. At least that's my logic.
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Jörg



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to be careful with pork and such. Domesticated, farm-raised pork is generally fine in the U.S., but there's still the possibility of getting trichinosis from undercooked pork. (I wouldn't eat it less than well done.) But, if you eat undercooked wild boar, or any other game animal, you're running a definite risk of picking up trichinosis, which is distinctly not cool.

I'm not in the "I'll eat whatever I want, and I don't believe I'll ever get sick" camp, and I'm also not in the "I'll cook everything past well done just to be safe" camp. I draw a distinction between low risk and medium or high risk foods. Low risk I'll eat undercooked (if I care for it that way, at least). Medium/High risk will definitely be fully cooked. I consider beef low risk. Chicken is medium to high risk. Wild game, definitely high risk. Pork, I don't know, so it goes in the med/high category. (I don't really eat any pork except bacon and sausage anyway.) Certain bacteria (salmonella) and all parasites (ahem: trichinosis) fall into the med/high risk categories.

Pork should be cooked to at least 150 degrees. (Higher if you doubt the accuracy of your meat thermometer.)
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spiff1242



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorg, is wild game really that unsafe? I always imagined conventionally raised meats where they have the animals caged up rubbing against each other to be the unsafest. Their raising conditions are so bad they are forced to pump them with antibiotics. Wouldn't wild game be much safer meat?

With beef I know that bacteria can pretty much only grow on the surface, so I'll pretty much eat the inside ultra rare as long as the outside has gotten a quick sear.

Also, simply having some probiotics on hand will really help keep you safe. I take some Primal Defense probiotics regularly (I had to take some antibiotics, so I started taking it to replace the good bacteria that was being killed by the antibiotics) and I also learned that taking them in large amounts if you get salmonella or something will pretty much clear up all symptoms in and hour or two.
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Jörg



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of wild game carries a pretty high risk of trichinosis. Most carnivores and omnivores can potentially carry trichinosis. (And more animals are omnivores than you might expect. For example, squirrels actually eat smaller animals.) Domestic pork has a low rate of carrying trichinosis these days, because their diet is carefully controlled. (Domestic pork used to have a very high rate of trichinosis, because they were fed intestines of other slaughtered pigs.)

Deer meat on the other hand, I believe is completely safe from trichinosis (though I'm not 100% sure), but it can be dangerous due to other things, such as E. coli.

Domestic animals should generally be safer because their diet is controlled, and because sick animals can, in theory, easily be removed from the group. I imagine free-range domestic meat is probably safer than caged, but both should be safer than wild game.
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Jack Xing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find the intensive farming mono cultures to be cruel and I would prefer free range. BUT! the scientist in me knows that it is the safest and cheapest food available.

Take free range eggs for example, they have much higher bacterial counts due to the chickens scratching through and eating their own manure. and all intensively farmed animals are treated for diseases and parasites. In Asia if they raised their birds in battery cages then controlling bird flu would be very easy, they would simply inoculate all the birds.

I still prefer to eat the eggs of happy chickens and carry the risk.
If you have eaten farm killed meat where the animals are not panicked for hour prior to dispatch, you will know the wonderful amazing difference. The flavor of fear and adrenalin is not good.
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Taamar



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The water sealed butter thingies are wonderful. I coveted one for years and now wonder what took me so long.

Incidentally, there hasn't been a case of trichinosis from commercial pork for 50 years. Chicken is in the 'high' category, pork is in 'medium/low'. I wouldn't make carpaccio with it, but I'll eat it medium rare,
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Jörg



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the USDA says that part of the reason rtrichinosis cases have fallen is because people are cooking pork so thoroughly now. I've got no desire to be the first case in a long time.

Also, I get the feeling that the "50 years" stat is entirely made up. And I'm completely sure that once you get outside the U.S., all bets are off. In Eastern Europe, it's still very common. I'm not sure about Western Europe, though.
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Taamar



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have looked up my numbers and been more specific:

There has not been a documented case of farm-raised pork transmitting the trichinella parasite in the US since the mis 70s (according to the USDA). So, 25ish years.

Keep in mind that the parasite is killed at 140F anyway, so cooking to medium is all that's really necessary.
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