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Equipment & Gear: Chef's Knives Rated
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bkorff
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:00 am    Post subject: Ergo Chef Reply with quote

Has anyone had experience with Ergo Chef Knives. They have a slanted handle with respect to the blade, not straight like most knives. They seem to have a sharp edge and performs well with the tests as described in your study.
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NotachefZ
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:59 am    Post subject: Prejudices prejudices.. tsk tsk tsk.. Reply with quote

Before you diss "what you buy at walmart" too much.. I got this Dec 2008. (I didn't really know knives, but knew enough that you get what you pay for, and that germans make good stuff) These knives felt like real knives, the kind of feel that gives you that sense of precision (that only an engineer understands) and the heft and reassurance that this will do the self-defense job should an intruder in your house surprise you (that only a solider understands). The fillet knife for meat, cutting things with strengh, the santoku for veggies/fine-cuts.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Henckels-12-pc-Cutlery-Set/10670275

Professional S Smile I wish I knew about knives what I learned in the last 3 days when I left these behind in the divorce settlement...

Am now in Europe, I'd buy these for this price in a heartbeat. On a related note, why is it so hard to find places that sell stuff in Europe? (I'm in the EU capital). Henckels website is so crap (epic frustration in finding a local place where i can actually hold their different lines in hand, the first 3 places I checked that were provided by their website as the local dealers do not actually carry henckel stuff), I am about to look at other manufacturer's hoping for some what of a better service experience. On the other hand... their stuff must be good if it sells this well even with a crappy service Wink

Btw, best advice in this thread so far (I am about halfway thru) is the one from the user with the Japanese retired chef step-mother. It convinced me to find a store and hold things before deciding on a brand. Domo arigato.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1074
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm. does not seem too hard to find - any of these nearby?

Code:

BRICOJOB / Hobby Center Multibois S.A.    Ch de St. Job 594-598

1180 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-3746909
www.bricojob.be
   
COUTELLERIE DU ROI    Passage du Nord 27

1000 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-217 54 94
   
Coutellerie Jamart    Rue de l'hopital 7

1000 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-512 49 62
   
COUTINOX    Rue Gustave Gilson, 140

1090 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-640 30 28
www.coutinox.be
   
Espace Buss-Jadoul    Chaussée de Charleroi, 18

1060 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02 538 14 45
www.bussjadoul.be
   
Espace SPRL S.L. Louis    Chausse d'Ixelles 154

1050 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-511 48 75
   
INNO BRUXELLES    111- 123, Rue Neuve

1000 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-211 21 11
www.inno.be
   
INNO UCCLE    10, Rue de la Bascule

1180 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-345 38 90
www.inno.be
   
INTERNATIONAL HOME OF COOKING    Leopoldstraat 3

1000 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-218 81 20
www.homeofcooking.com
   
Maison Tilquin    Galerie de la Reine 9

1000 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-512 76 63
www.tilquin.be
   
METRO Cash&Carry Brussel    Werkhuizenkaai, 22/23

1000 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02-611 74 00
www.makro.be
   
MMMMH SPRL    Chaussé de Charleroi 92

1060 Bruxelles    Tel.: 02.534 23 40
www.mmmmh.be
   
SPRL HERCULE.W.COM / LE PIANO    Rue de L'ermitage 50 B7

1050 Bruxelles    Tel.: 0495-45 22 23
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NotachefZ
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And therein lies the problem. Its easy to get a list form Henkels' website. It is just utter crap. The first three I looked at on that list provided by Henckels, do not actually sell Henkels.

Look through all of the websites. One doesn't work a all, one is the equivalent of Home&Hardware, one is the equivalent of Costco (doesnt have Henckels, or any premium brand knives, I've been there), one is sort of like a fancy Target.
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JulieHenriksen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject: Great test! Reply with quote

This is an excellent review of the different popular kitchen knives. I have reviewed the Global and the Victorinox myself, and am happy to see the Global knife scoring this well on the different cuts.

I have seen a few other reviews also discussing the shaft of Global G2, but I find it to be OK and balanced. The design is lovely!
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Giovanni
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't found more realistic reviews and comparison anywhere on the web. Great job!

I'm a fan of Wusthof brand. It's kind of a tradition in my family and even my great grand father had Wusthof knives. I'm sure some of them are 100 years old and he still uses them. I have bought the Wusthof Classic Ikon which is a set of 22 knives and I couldn't be happier about them.
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Valmont
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:49 am    Post subject: Test is not good Reply with quote

I'm sorry but this "test" doesn't work. First of all the angle at which these knives are sharpened differs. I could think of more things, but right here, this is what matters the most. I have Wüsthoff Classics, and I resharpened ALL of them myself. Your cutting style matters too. I increasingly move towards the Japanese methods, and this means I will re-shape the edge of my knives once again. Also the balance is relevant to your style. What's good for me might be horrible to others and vice versa. Also the speed at which a person can work SAFELY is relevant to how you want your knife to be.

I value the effort but currently this exercise is futile. If you even find a budget, retry this tests where all of them having the very same edge, and stick to a single way of cutting, by multiple persons.
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Cutco Rep
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:52 pm    Post subject: Beating the dead horse Reply with quote

Yeah Cutco isn't great for people like you, those who actually like to cook, but they aren't made for you. When we ask "Do you love to cook?", even if they say yes they don't, it's obvious from the fact that they don't know about other brands, the stigma behind Cutco in cooking groups, or even that they have to sharpen their knives with every use, which is exactly why we sell these for them. The knives aren't made for people who actually like to cook, they're made for the average housewife who is too tired, or who doesn't know any better but doesn't care to find out how, to take care of her knives. They're actually our target demographic who we specifically try to sell to, the knives are made for them in mind. Yeah they could get something almost as "good" for a lower price, but again, they're made for people who don't take care of their knives, so they'll just end up having to replace those later, while with these, it doesn't matter how much a beating they take we'll still repair/replace them. Like for instance my aunt never sharpens her knives, I would never recommend or gift her a set of Henckels because that would just be the equivalent of flushing money down the toilet, instead I would just get her Cutco.
And don't even get me started on how most people don't know how to take care of Carbon steel.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Even 10 years later--Great idea Reply with quote

Michael, the choice of knives anhd general purpose were so well chosen that they have stood the test of time. The 4 vegetable cutting tasks chosen seemed reasonable. The methodology seemed appropriate, but the results make no sense, appear almost scrambled. I'm not sure what went wrong.

There really is no basis in your results for the inferences you made about best knives: no knives stood out that much. Here's where I think we stand today:

Quality stamped knives like Victorinox (low end) and Mac/Global (high end) are outstanding, but traditional forged German knives (Wustof/Zwilling/Henkles) have remained competitive. Japanese forged knives, especially Kai/Kershaw/Shun, and Miyabi, have both diversified with more product lines, introduced new core materials (VG/MAX and sg/2), and gained more market share. Enthusiast Japanese knives still have determined followers. Only a very few truly new products, like Ken Onion American knives, have appeared.

It has become much more difficult for potential users to see and feel knives before purchase.

Ray
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whovous
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Return of the son of the dead horse Reply with quote

My two cents on the Cutco debate.

I sold Cutco in the summer of 1975. I was not very good at it. The one good thing I got out of it was that I was able to buy my ten piece salesman's set for $165. Say what you like about retail prices on these knives, I got good value. I did lose about half the set when I divorced in 2003.

I came to this web site because I've been trying to decide on a new chef's knife for several years. I didn't really learn to cook until I divorced, so all I really knew about Cutco knives was that the Double D edge lasted forever, or almost 40 years to be precise, without sharpening. It still made completely clean cuts after that time, although it did make the same cuts faster after sharpening.

But the chef knife is the knife that matters, and the Cutco chef knife just isn't very good. Sure, the handle fits my hand nicely (a subjective factor), and the stainless blade maintains its finish beautifully (an objective factor), but the length and balance are just awful. And while the edge was pretty nice when I got it back from the "free" (pay shipping only) sharpening, that edge did not hold up for a very long time.

I bought the Forschner because it is very cheap, and it is wicked sharp compared to the Cutco. But it looks cheap, feels too light, and generally does not make me confident to use it.

The Wusthof Gran Prix II handle feels almost as good in my hand as the Cutco (subjective again), and the balance is absolutely fantastic. However, the steel is very soft, and I just cannot get it to maintain an edge for very long, not even as long as the Cutco.

Right now, I am leaning toward a dimpled MAC, but I am still undecided. If I blow the money on a cultish and much high dollar knife than the MAC, can I keep my family from ever even touching it?

Back to Cutco. I really have not seen any evidence that any other maker can touch the warranty. You can like or hate their appearance, but 40 years later they are almost indistinguishable from new. I don't think many makers can match them on that score. Sure, you can baby any product so it looks new, but for everyday use, they are again unmatched. It is really a shame their chef knife sucks, and that the chef knife is the only knife in the block that really matters.

When it comes to slicing, I really think the Double D edge is unmatched. I think the same sales pitch is used now, as then. Ask the potential customer to get out their sharpest knife, and then to use it, followed by the Cutco carving knife, to cut a thick length of rope. I did not do a huge number of sales pitches that summer, but I never saw another knife even come close to the Cutco on that test. Admittedly, all this really proves is that if you need to cook rope, Cutco is the brand to get. Still, it seems unmatched on that particular test.

And, as I said before, that edge lasts pretty much forever. It is a patented edge, and I do not really think it is fair to call it serrated, tho I understand why many do. It looks serrated. The difference is that cuts infinitely more cleanly than any conventional serrated knife, and it also cuts quite a bit faster.

So, the Double D knives cut fast, clean, maintain their edge and appearance superbly, and have an unmatched warranty. I think they are wonderful for cutting meat or bread. It is just that a real cook does almost everything with a chef's knife, and on that front, Cutco is just awful.

As for Cutco taking advantage of young college kids? That is likely true to some extent. You only get paid if you sell. You don't get a dime if you fail. And the product is not an easy sale at the price point. But I knew what I was getting into when I signed up, and I knew how to get out when it became clear I wasn't going to, um, cut it. I was taken advantage of, but I still managed to live to tell the tale.
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1074
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" Ask the potential customer to get out their sharpest knife, and then to use it, followed by the Cutco carving knife,"

actually, all you have proven is that most people do not have or maintain sharp kitchen knives. this rates multiple negative orders of magnitude on the 'surprise' scale.

". . . and have an unmatched warranty." cutco hyperbole and completely false. all the top knife makers do not match the cutco warranty, they exceed the cutco warranty.

free sharpening - well, for the cost of shipping to them, paying the handling and return postage fees, one can go buy a brand new sharp out of the box knife in any number of discount stores. so, it's 'free' but really not really 'free' and really not worth it. I've never read any experiences where a cutco customer got a sharpened knife back. they blather on about 'they sent me a brand new knife!' - because,,,, the product is so cheap it costs less to send them a new knife than the labor to sharpen the old one. ooops.

edge does not hold up.... do you know what a steel is? and how to use it? I suspect what you are seeing is the edge rolling over and lacking a two pass swipe on a steel, feels "duller" - if you are using stone, glass, metal, type cutting boards, the whole deal is off.

..dimpled MAC. I would highly recommend a bit more research and introspection of your assumptions.

high end Japanese (&similar) knives are often touted for holding an edge and that is because the steel is harder / brittle. which makes sharpening them much more difficult and much more of an artform.

the indications are your education about sharpening and maintaining stainless (OMG soft) steels is lacking. spending more and not knowing how to sharpen or maintain a knife is just money down the sewer.
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