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Waterless Cookware Is a Scam or Not
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: waterless Reply with quote

kemms wrote:
I have a set of RENA WARE for 35 yrs, it has nothing to do with boiling, it cooks at about 85 to 93 celcius after the seal process and in a partial vacuum. It should now be called sous vide cookware,....caus that's what it is!! The same set look as if it was bought yesterday


If you are suggesting that the cooking process somehow *lowers* the pressure in the pot then it is a whole bunch of certified nonsense.

At the sea level water will boil at 100 deg Celsius, at higher elevations the boiling temperature will be somewhat lower. With the lid on the pressure will always go up slightly, which in turn will slightly increase the boiling temperature.

There is no way in this physical universe that after you put the fancy lid on, the pot will create partial vacuum inside and miraculously decrease the cooking temperature.

It might still be a nice cooking set, but I'm pretty sure it cannot defy the laws of physics.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Waterless Cookware Is a Scam or Not Reply with quote

The medieval art of cauldron cookery was very similar to modern waterless cooking, though you wouldn't know it from the cartoon stereotype of bubbling brews and stews. Cooks would seal and stack separate containers of various foods on a rack in a covered cauldron, thus pressure-cooking them compactly, all at once, and with minimal loss of flavor and nutrients. Thames River boatmen were still using the technique in the 1950s. It's fully illustrated and described in the cookbook "Simply Savory" by Dixie Deerman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently tripped over a blog site that explained how waterless cookware mystically produces a vacuum and cooks faster and at a lower temperature thereby preserving all the food values . . . .

the vacuum is made possible courtesy of the "patented water seal"

you put the stuff in the pan
you put the lid on
the lid has a vent; open the vent
turn on the heat
eventually the heat drives water out of the food
eventually a steam cloud exits the vent
when the steam cloud starts exiting the vent, close the vent
turn off the heat
as the magic waterless cookware cools it forms a vacuum inside the pan
which allows the food to cook at a lower temp - because we all know water boils at a lower temperature at lower pressure.

this might work on an electric coil burner with high residual heating - but only if you're cooking one ply of a defrosted and separated minute steak.

and then there's the whole "water seal" thing - a 12 inch water column is about one-half psi.

so how deep is the water seal? eighth-inch? when the vacuum inside becomes too great, air from outside bubbles in . . . .

one-eighth of one twelfth of one-half = 0.005 psi, more or less.

not gonna' make much difference except for the hole in your wallet and the profit in the waterless scammer's pocket.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: bought the pans 8 years ago and love them still Reply with quote

I bought the pro helath ultra pans about 8 years ago and they are worth every penny.... It takes a little getting use to when you cook with them until you learn the technique. The demonstration does more then steam! The technique helps you sear meat in which you cant do on non stick pans. The pans have multiple layers of metal that cook evenly. The lids seal when you turn the burner down not while you are bringing the vegitables to steam temperature. If something sticks it may be because you used oil which creates a film when it is cooked down, especially cheep oils, which actually change their properties when cooked above med. if you use grape seed oil, it is a high temp oil that doesn't change properties at higher temps. Also meat doesn't need any oil or butter, it releases from the pan when it is at the same temp as the pan on med heat which is the perfect temp and when you flip it over. if it sticks it may not be ready to be flipped. Finnally if you are worried about the sceam at which they sell th pans but you would rather buy product from walmart, you should probably check out how walmart does buisness, (or hurts other busness and communities).

If you are not big into cooking cheaper pans are fine but if you want quality food, you'll still have to potentially learn how to cook differently, and the pans will make a great product. And sarcasm it posts typically isn't helpful, nor talking about something you haven't tried because you probably don't understand....
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: My experience Reply with quote

My mother purchased her set 50 years ago and I bought mine 26 years ago. We both are still happy and would be upset to miss a pc. They hold up extremely well. My MIL is constantly replacing her cookware about every five to eight years and has spent well over my initial investment in waterless cookware.

Just asked Mom and she said that her mother had some and that is why she got the waterless set. Very happy with these...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dilbert wrote:
these "waterless cookware" people methinks are to 9999.999% shills / spammers

in years and years and years, not a single one of them has every responded to a simple question of "and exactly how does that work?"

curiously none of them can answer how the billion layer ion-deposition waterless cookware, with an 18/7 stainless interior, is less food sticky that conventional couple-a-ply 18/10 stainless.

these folks are not drinking the KoolAid - they're serving the KoolAid.

Well I can say I'm not serving the Kool aid because I don't sell this product nor ddid I buy it but got it as a gift for my wedding. I got the waterless kitchen craft cookware set for free which I guess is pretty expensive? I am no expert but using it and thinking a little bit I can guess is the way it works has to do with heat distribution on the pan itsself. The better you can distribute the heat on the surface of the pan the better it will cook. The layered pans give the heat more transfer surface thus delaying the time from the origional heat source to the inside of the pan when comming into contact with the food. All 7 layers and the heat having to jump from one layer to the other, delaying the initial heat only in one spot and heating the entire inside of the pan evenly. Think of it like the way you roast a marshmellow. If you stick the marshmellow into the fire, it's gonna burn the outside to a crisp and the inside of the marshmellow won't even cook. But if you hold the marshmellow up above the flame a little ways, it's gonna take a while to heat up, but once it does, it cooks properly and thuroughly(that's why the less heat is required when cooking with waterless. Low heat, takes longer to heat up, but cooks perfectly). Water when cooking does exactly that when cooking. Heats everything inside the pan with the same temperature throughout thus cooking everything evenly. If the pan can do that without the water, then you have this hip new invention called waterless cooking.
As for the non stick i would imagine it is because of the stainless steel and the heating as well. (I know this part because i sold cutco back in the day) the steel they use has a specific measure of not having a surface texture. Most steels when looked at real close will not be smooth, but they sand it till it's too fine of a surface to see or feel. The metals they use has no surface texture, it's flat. Think of it as the difference between glass and sand. From far away, sand looks like one huge surface. But when you look at it up close, there's all kinds of surfaces and holes and such. Glass is just smooth. So when cooked on food has more holes in the surface to get in, it's harder to clean off. Also with the better heating less food gets burnt on anyways. So it's easy to figure out why these pans would be better.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon -

I have seen a number of fast talking country fair / exhibition talkers hawking the "waterless cookware"

with one single exception, the ware were so light, so flimsy, so un-well made, it's just ridiculous. Walmart demands better quality.

in one place, I waltzed over to the display table, picked up a 10-12 inch fry pan, with lid, and instinctively expecting there be some mass there, , , was a bit shocked when I picked up the pan and the absence of any appreciable mass resulted in 'over lifting' the pan and launching the lid across the room. yes, identifiable flying objects followed by a clittery clattery jittery clang bang as the lid hit the floor.....

at a different venue, one brand (sorry, don't recall the name) appeared to be decent construction - i.e. something other than stainless steel tinfoil construction.

your thinking on how heat is spread around about and through a pan is correct in theory, but one needs to apply reality.

the amount of heat that will "transfer" through a layer depends on the material and (in a pan geometry) the thickness of the layer.

a layer is not a layer which resembles not a layer. if you can find a waterless cookware manufacturer with the guts to detail the construction, you'll find the "five to seven to fifty eight layer" construction goes like this:

outside = stainless
core layer = aluminum
inside = stainless

the remaining "layers" are flash coatings of "something" to promote "bonding" between the major layers.

in terms of heat transfer, molecular thicknesses of layers of "something" don't do a thing -
/sarcasm on
other than empty your wallet
/sarcasm off

some of the stuff would appear to be decent stainless steel cookware.

the "waterless will make you live forever" stuff is utter hokum.

what is not hokum is the $2,000-$5,000 price tag for something you can get in a discount store for $40-100.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Waterless cookware Reply with quote

I bought a set of Seal-O-Matic 3 ply waterless cookware in 1970. I paid $300 for the cook ware, a full set of Noritake China and a set of Oneida stainless steel table ware. Seal-o-Matic was bought by Regal Ware Inc.

If I was buying a set of pots and pans today I would pay $400 in a heartbeat for a set of lifetime guaranteed stainless steel waterless.

I'm still using all 3 but I use the pots and pans every day and have for 44 years. It still looks like the day I bought it except the handles and knobs are not shiny any more. They were made out of the same material as a bowling ball. They are finally showing wear.

I've used waterless for certain things. Corn on the cob. Potatoes, broccoli. I have never put water in meat so a no brainier. Waterless does taste great. But you can do that with most pans. Rice comes out perfect every time. I have a rice cooker but have gone back to my waterless pan. One knuckle of water over the rice, turn it on high until it starts hopping, turn it to low, don't open the lid, perfect in 40 minutes regardless of amt.

You can do that with any pan that has a good vacuum .

You can engineer and blog all day long on the true/false BS but if u like to cook and want to keep it for a lifetime and have a need to stack stuff to keep it warm, buy it. You won't be disappointed.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mary -

a decent stainless steel pan/pot is a decent stainless steel pot - and that's the end of that theory.

the mystical "vacuum created by waterless cookware" is utter nonsense. the eighth inch "depth" of condensate that may collect at the lid/rim junction is not going to allow a vacuum of any significance to form. atmospheric pressure is nominally 14.7 psi - a 12 inch water column equates to less than a half pound per square inch (psi) and you're thinking 1/12 of 1/8 (or one-ninety-sixth...) of that makes some difference in how your food cooks or tastes? you're fooling yourself.

as to warranties, you really should start looking at the internet. there's not a name manufacturer out there that does not warranty their products "for life"

and I'm still using non-waterless plain old stainless pots/pans my parents acquired in the 1940's - so that's 70 years and counting - meaning that all those "it's better than anything" claims are complete total bunko.

so, regrets to tell you, the waterless claims are all complete total bunko.
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Jim Cooley

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Dilbert said.

And as for quality pots and pans, look no further than eBay or local thrift stores. Most of mine are Farberware I bought back in 1979 or 1980 and they just keep working and working.

Two things to note about Farberware, though:

1. Somewhere along the line, they decreased the thickness of the aluminium clad bottom, so you want the old stuff.

2. Seriously overheating a pan when dry will cause the bottom to bellow out, so it no longer lays flat. No way to fix it, so unless you use a gas stove they become a pain in the posterior.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dilbert wrote:
hhmmmm, tried numerous "scouring powders" - not able to detect any resulting smell.

these "waterless cookware" people methinks are to 9999.999% shills / spammers

in years and years and years, not a single one of them has every responded to a simple question of "and exactly how does that work?"

curiously none of them can answer how the billion layer ion-deposition waterless cookware, with an 18/7 stainless interior, is less food sticky that conventional couple-a-ply 18/10 stainless.

Try Barkeepers Friend. It is recommened by All-Clad and lots of other in the retail store cookware brands. As for the less sticky, it isn't less sticky that I know. As I assume you are an engineer, I will try and translate from my days at culinary school. In school, we learn that that you have a heat source, a vessel to cook in and what you are going to cook. If you have a poor conductor of heat as a vessel, you need to compensate buy turning up the temperature. Then, you need something to insulate that food from that heat. So hence, grease, fat, oil. If you can conduct the heat very well, then you can use less. If you use less, you do not need an insulator anymore. Stainless is a poor conductor of heat. So pans that we nothing but stainless burn foods horribly and food would "stick" to it. Waterless cookware always has more than one layers of metal. 3, 5, 7, 9, 12.... ect. This helps to conduct and hold heat that the stainless could not do alone. Quality cookware in the stores (shop at william sonoma sometime) that has this multi layer is generally $2000 to $3000 for a good sized set. So waterless cookware that is about the same is not outrageous. Its right inline with good cookware. It is right for everyone? Nope. Not everyone wants or needs this quality. But that doesn't mean its not good if its not for you. Kinda like cars. Some people are ok with a ford or chevy. Some would prefere a BMW. Or tools. Some people love harbor freight tool. Some people love snap-on. Either way, you are getting what you paid for.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you read reviews regarding that cookware before you buy.
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Kristina Travis

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Waterless Cookware Is a Scam or Not Reply with quote

I'm actually intrigue about the product upon reading it here. I have no idea regarding a waterless cookware. Personally, I don't find it good for our health when we cook our food. But, you know others would say its a good one.
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