Cooking For Engineers Forum Index Cooking For Engineers
Analytical cooking discussed.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Kitchen Notes: Baguettes Deconstructed
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cooking For Engineers Forum Index -> Comments Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Novice
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: 70% water? help! Reply with quote

How do you form loaves with dough that's 70% water? My dough always turns out a goopy mess. I end up adding lots of flour at before forming the loaves and proofing which makes the baguettes too dense. Help please.
Back to top
Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1025
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually, it is not 70% water.

from the original post:
Flour – 475 grams – 100%
Water – 325 grams – 68.4%

the water is about 70% of the flour weight.

as for too wet a dough - are you measuring by weight or by "cups"?
for baking recipes, measuring by weight is preferred - it is much more consistent.

also to note, not every flour is the same. what hydration level works with one brand may need slight adjustment for another brand -

also to note, find a non-store brand you like and stick with it. you'll learn how it "reacts / behaves" non-store brand is important because stores private label from the supplier of the day and a store brand will not be as consistent as a "name" brand.

if the dough is too sticky to handle / form, you will need to increase the flour. but - it's best to do that from the beginning. adding at the end typically results in an excess because the flour does not have time to "soak up" the water. which is another reason measuring by weight is preferred - if you want to increase the flour by 10%, it's easy to control; deducing a method to increase 3 cups by 10% is trickier . . . .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gigelus2k3
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:51 am    Post subject: sticky dough Reply with quote

The dough is very sticky only in the beginning. After you fold it twice during the first rise, it becomes much more manageable.

By the time you're ready to form the loafs for the second rise, it should not stick almost at all. If it still does, just dust the board and your hands with enough flour to prevent sticking.

Also, as Dilbert wrote above, maybe the flour you're using is different; I always had great results with King Arthur's white, it never failed.
Back to top
Bread Novice
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Thanks! Reply with quote

Love this site & greatly appreciate the tips! Thanks guys. Here's to my next batch of gorgeous crusty and crumby loaves.

As a "thank you" here's an extremely light and very simple dessert that's great when you just want a touch of sweetness:
Gather a variety of citrus fruits, such as pomelos, grapefruits, oranges, or blood oranges (more colorful the better). Peel and section the fruit. Make a small amount of simple syrup. Get some Grand Marnier. Combine the fruit, a splash of simple syrup and Grand Marnier (both to taste), chill if desired and serve.
Back to top
baguette-tougours
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: rise time for poolish...? Reply with quote

Hello,

This is an interesting recipe which I'm in the process of starting right now.
What I am curious about though is...

You indicated a autolise time for the final dough (12-24 hours) but did
not indicate any autolise time for the poolish.

Other recipes I've come across indicate to let the poolish/starter sit for about 14-24 hours before mixing into the dough.

Maybe its listed somewhere else in the article and I just overlooked it. Sad

If you could let me know, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
Back to top
baguette-tougours
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 70% water? help! Reply with quote

Novice wrote:
How do you form loaves with dough that's 70% water? My dough always turns out a goopy mess. I end up adding lots of flour at before forming the loaves and proofing which makes the baguettes too dense. Help please.


Hello,

One thing I was told to do is to use a cloche. It allows you to form the loaves without adding much flour. When you add too much flour, you're defeating the purpose of the 70% water (extra hydration is what gives the baguettes their characteristic irregular holes). And don't knead the dough much at all.
That also lends itself to dense loaves.
Back to top
sreyemhtes
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Baguettes / Crust / Steam -- Baparoma Reply with quote

Hi -- love this thread. I took a KA Artisan class too. All true about the wetness of the dough and the minimal handling -- you just have to get used to it, and it does get better as the dough matures. I use one of those plastic scrapers to move the dough around. By the end, after the yeast has worked for about 24 hours (!) between the poolish and the main fermentation, shaping and proofing are no more than somewhat uncomfortable. The longer and slower and cooler you let things ferment, the better your results will be.

Also, the less "work" you put into the dough the less you will oxidize the flour and the more lovely nutty taste you will preserve. When you work the dough in a food processor or a stand mixer you can overheat the dough.

So time and "work" are directly related. Give it more time and you can do less kneading. Give it a lot of time and you don't have to knead it at all. Artisans had a lot of time, I guess.

But that's not why I comment. I struggled with getting the right crust. I used ice cubes, spritzing, a pan of water etc. I was on the verge of buying one of those clay oven inserts, but man, that sounded inconvenient.

Then I found the Baparoma steam baking pans. They work incredibly well for getting the shatteringly authentic crust. You put about an ounce of water int he bottom reservoir, put the pan on top, put the bread on the pan, and cover them. You proof covered, which helps in itself. But then you bake in the covered pans, and the exact right humidity is maintained for exactly long enough.

They are not even made anymore, I think but you can find them on ebay and elsewhere -- google Baparoma Steam Baking Master. I think they cost about $20 each. I bought three, and then I bought 3 more to give to a friend, and then I bought 3 MORE because sometimes I make a LOT of bread. The last lot came with several alternate pan inserts for different uses, but I just use the baguette inserts.
Back to top
Enriched



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Cape Town

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Brötchen (Broetchen) - German Bread Rolls Reply with quote

Thanks for this really interesting article, and a wonderfully informative website in general.

I was wondering if this is the same technique as for making Brötchen (Broetchen) - German Bread Rolls?

If not, can you offer some advice or an article on how to make them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1025
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how to bake a good broetchen....

I've been working on that topic for ... sheesh - going on 30 years.

here's what I've learned:

you need flour, water, yeast, salt

you need high humidity / steam in the initial phases of the bake cycle to get the thin crisp crust.

you need high bake temp because if you bake it forever you get a thick crust.

you need a baking stone / similar device - something pre-heated in the oven such that when you plop down the dough, it sizzles.

almost everything else is "technique"

EXCEPT

that Schwaben/Bayern use the "Broetchen" term. other geographic areas have different 'names' for the 'breakfast bread'

my own experience is the Schwaben/Bayern Broetchen have a distinct taste and aroma - and, after 25+ years of fiddling, it is

diastatic malt powder. one tablespoon per 450 grams of flour.

close your eyes, go to KingArthurFlour and pay the price+shipping.

any of the no-knead recipes works well with the addition of the diastatic malt powder (there's two types, diastatic and not diastatic - get the diastatic)

after the long rise, cut/shape to broetchen, allow to (2nd) rise, one slash _after_ risen and _immediately_ before baking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BeeRich
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Very Wet Dough Reply with quote

After my first rising fold (anaerobic), it is a very sticky dough. Are others finding this?
Back to top
BeeRich
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Excellent results Reply with quote

It was pretty goopy, and adding some flour to the final shaping (and an hour's final rest) only made it manageable.

But did it make quite the bread. Very impressed. I am now reducing the moisture to see how she behaves.
Back to top
panadero



Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:48 pm    Post subject: Great thread to help master the art of making the baguette Reply with quote

I quit making baguettes several years ago because the finished product resembled a cement block with small uniform holes. It's taken about 4 tries using Schimpf's recipe and procedure and wow...I'm good!! Smile Seriously, I'm amazed at the results possible if you read and re-read the tips that Schimpf provides. I've always used a pizza stone without a pan and this works well to create a crust that is hard and crispy just like they make it downtown. Smile The progress I've made came from using less yeast; using more water (70-72% of flour weight); allowing the poolish to "bloom" for 12-14 hours; heeding the tip to allow the final mix to autolyze before adding the salt; and creating enough steam and wetness initially to help create the crust. To help with the last step, I preheat my oven at 550 with my pizza stone already in. I score the loaves very shallowly - a quarter inch at most in depth so as not to deflate the proofed loaves. I transfer to pizza stone using a pizza peel. After one minute, I open the oven and sprinkle coarse grey salt on the loaves where I've scored the bread - just a little and I spritz liberally with a fine spray of water so that the top of the loaf is well watered! I close the oven and reduce the temp to 470 and turn on the convection oven. After about 3 or 4 minutes I spritz again liberally. Finally, about 4 minutes later I spritz one last time. Works like you'd never believe. Thank you Mark Schimpf!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
le boulonger86
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Baguettes Reply with quote

Hi Guys

I'm afraid you cannot make a true baguette unless you use Type 45 French flour, true artisan bakers have a poolish many years old some handed down from their fathers but hey ho does it really matter as long as the end product is good, but there is a difference when you use French flour.

Happy baking
Back to top
Nop
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:34 am    Post subject: Precision for engineers. ;) Reply with quote

Quote:
"Mix and let stand at room temperature at least overnight."

Please define "room temperature". In electronics, it's officially 25°C, but in my experience, most people would consider it closer to 20°C. What is the consensus for baking?
(And yes, vague "everyone knows" measurements are a pet peeve of mine in cookery, but doubly so in engineering. Wink
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:39 am    Post subject: PS to my last comment. Reply with quote Delete this post

Also, what temperature range is acceptable? Here, it's late winter, & "room temperature" has been getting down to 5°C overnight, but in summer, it can be as high as 35° C overnight.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cooking For Engineers Forum Index -> Comments Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group