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Cornwall/English Pastie Recipe
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Gareth's swede/turnip comment is correct. But I'm having to get picky again.

A traditional Corrnish recipe would not ask for diced beef, instead would specify 'skirt' beef which would then be cut into thin slivers for optimum cooking.

Also, black pepper is not traditional. It hadn't reach the UK shores when Cornish pasties were first conceived, white pepper was used, & it gives a much better flavour.
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Watt
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: pepper Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Yep, Gareth's swede/turnip comment is correct. But I'm having to get picky again.

A traditional Corrnish recipe would not ask for diced beef, instead would specify 'skirt' beef which would then be cut into thin slivers for optimum cooking.

Also, black pepper is not traditional. It hadn't reach the UK shores when Cornish pasties were first conceived, white pepper was used, & it gives a much better flavour.


but white pepper is just black pepper with the black skin rubbed off. How can you have one without the other, or do you mean just in a domestic situation. Beef skirt sliced thinly, agreed. Swede, orange.
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Watt
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Gareth



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:

Also, black pepper is not traditional. It hadn't reach the UK shores when Cornish pasties were first conceived, white pepper was used, & it gives a much better flavour.


Hmmmm!

Pepper is first recorded in the United Kingdom during the Roman period, and had an on/off recorded history until about the mid 15th century.
It was recorded as an import during the times of the Crusades, and definitely pre-dates any recorded written recipes for Cornish pasties.

http://www.plantcultures.org/plants/black_pepper_history.html
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Guest






PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting link Gareth. I have no internet evidence to support my statement of unavailability of black pepper in the UK in times past.

All I can say is I was making pasties on the Lizard in the early 70's. As you may/or not know it's rural with a capital 'R' and the only pepper available to any cook was ground white pepper & that's what 'everyone' used, there wasn't anything else.

I moved north to Newcastle in 1984 & received a Christmas present from a SIL of a pepper grinder fill of black peppercorns - & life changed forever, except for the pasties!

Horses for courses eh?

Regards Joy
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My family is from the UP (Upper Penninsula of Michigan - copper mining country) where pastys are quite traditional.

However, for those who might like a flakier crust, a very similar (and risking the bitter wrath of my ancestors), but better treat, is Tourtière Québécois. Same idea, but in a pie form with a Pâte Brisée crust. Googling either will point you in the right direction. My recipe came from James Villas' The Town and Country Cookbook.

I served it to my parents once and the immediate comment was "This is good - You could do a pasty like this....." And, in my humble opinion, yes, indeed you could.
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Watt
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: pastry Reply with quote

IndyRob wrote:
My family is from the UP (Upper Penninsula of Michigan - copper mining country) where pastys are quite traditional.

However, for those who might like a flakier crust, a very similar (and risking the bitter wrath of my ancestors), but better treat, is Tourtière Québécois. Same idea, but in a pie form with a Pâte Brisée crust. Googling either will point you in the right direction. My recipe came from James Villas' The Town and Country Cookbook.

I served it to my parents once and the immediate comment was "This is good - You could do a pasty like this....." And, in my humble opinion, yes, indeed you could.


indeed you could, but would it be a pasty? I've made them using bread dough (very little fat) and apart from a thicker than usual crimped seam, were perfectly sealed.
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Watt
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine that the first example of a pasty was probably quite different than what we'd consider traditional. So I don't think that a perceived improvement would necessarily strip the result of its name.

But owing to tradition, I do think that I'd never refer to it simply as a pasty, and especially not a Cornish Pasty, but rather something qualified like "Updated Pasty" or "Pasty Ala Fred", or whatever.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds aout right, IndyRob,
but I wonder how far away from a 'traditional' recipe (for anything) one can get before one has to rethink (and rename) it.

I see th latest craze is to call any cocktail a 'Martini'. I wonder what that company would think of it?

I have seen many examples of food being totally abused (name wise) just to provide something different. I once had tandoori fish in a restaurant on the West coast of Ireland. Except, when it came, it was just (beautifully cooked) pan fried fillet, and a side bowl of yoghurt with raw spices in. Had the chef gone off, and left the ingredients for the customer to finish off. I left giving the waitress a recipe for proper tandoori fish, and one for properly cooked rice, mine was water logged.

I wonder who some of these chefs think they are, if they can't be bothered to cook decent food, I wonder what their kitchen hygiene is like?

Rant over, merry Xmas.
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jkarle1106



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Location: DeBary, Florida, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When do improvements on a recipe get too far from the "traditional" to be called the same name? I don't think that's quantifiable. That said, as far as the Cornish pasties, and I'm referring to the type that is considered "traditional" in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the local origins must be considered. They were an expedient food, made so that miners, and latter loggers, could take a whole meal with them in a small package. And they were made with what was available cheap. Remember, these folks were working poor. They didn't get to pick the tastiest most tender cut of meat, or the best vegetables, or even the type of flour they used.

My 2 cents worth.

Merry Christmas
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not have thought it quantifiable either Smile , but that wasn't the question. And I didn't say imProvements; for the most part, IMHO, recipes are just different, or sometimes changed for the worse, seldom 'improved', as the 'improver' has little insight into the intentions of the developer of the original.

And are your pasties in Michigan called 'Michigan pasties'? In the UK, outside of Cornwall and Devon, they are nearly always called 'Cornish pasties', whether from Cornwall or not. A bit like 'Cornish hens', never heard of them in the UK, specially not in Cornwall.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should really try one of these meals. They sound very delicious even if they are hard to make. But after using all that time to make something like that, I think the pleasure of eating it is fantastic.
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dori
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Neat site! Reply with quote

I enjoyed the posts on making pasties. We just came back a couple of weeks ago from the UP and had our fill of the wonderful treat while we were there and brought home a cooler full. My hubby insists mine are much better than the ones we bought, but for the saving of work, I thought they were pretty darned good!
I wanted to ask someone a question, but no one has posted in this thread since March, so I don't know if my chances are good for getting an answer, but here goes....
The "swede" vegetable you're talking about in many of the recipes... is that a rutabaga? That's what I use, plus a little bit of carrot. I like the flavor it adds and color. Also, I use sirloin tip steak or flank steak because it is more tender. It's worth the extra cost, IMO.

Another question... in my Dad's neck of the woods of the UP, they eat the pasties with ketchup, but in many areas, like Duluth, they serve them with brown gravy. The ones in Minnesota are also very peppery. I prefer the plain old pasty served with ketchup. What say the rest of you? Wink
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Dilbert



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 1026
Location: central PA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dori -

confirming: rutabaga is aka Swedish turnip

pasties are not popular around here, regrets can't help with the rest.....
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IndyRob



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
And are your pasties in Michigan called 'Michigan pasties'?


Just 'Pasties' (Pastys? I don't want to get into the spelling argument because I truly don't remember). The Cornish aspect was a revelation for me upon Googling.

But my Pasty side of the family is Scandinavian (Norway, specifically). I'm unaware of any familial connection to the British Isles.
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