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No-Knead bread
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: No Hot Vessels Reply with quote

I've read about several people making the no-knead bread without the fuss of using a preheated container. A couple folks dumped the proofed dough directly onto a baking stone, presumably preheated. One proofed in a casserole dish. Once risen, said casserole dish and dough were stuffed in the oven for bakage. All report glorious results.

Perhapst the crunchy crust is simply due to the high water content and high baking temperature, not due to the closed container baking method?
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done it without the hot vessel, with a small hot vessel, large hot vessel, and on the stone itself and the only difference I got was the shape of the risen loaf. The small hot vessel produced the most round (closest to hemi-spherical) while the stone was a bit flatter. I think this is because the sides can expand more readily when there isn't an intense heat source nearby to form a crust quickly. I dunno. In all these cases, my brumb structure looked nice, but was still damp (not gooey, but very moist). I can't figure out how to get it to NOT be moist - I want the texture of a soft and chewy rustic artisan bread.
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Wow Reply with quote

. . . .and on a train, in the rain, and on a boat, with a goat. . . . .

How many loaves have you baked??
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About a dozen - and I've eaten none of them...
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admire your persistence.

So the container doesn't seem critical. Neither does loaf shape since you've done both round and squat.

What else have you tried? Have you varied the heat? Decreased water content? Danced a jig while it baked?
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've decreased water content (by a little... reducing it too much results in a dough that doesn't stick together without kneading...), altered the temperature of the oven (even starting it high in a hot vessel, then taking it out and dropping the temperature to 300F to bake for an additional hour to hopefully dry things out. Same results - always too moist.

I haven't tried dancing yet. And now it's too hot for me to even think about trying to bake bread at 500F.
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SirSpice



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it really worth it?

I've tried the recipe that I linked to and I ended up with throwing two of them away, one turned out a brick, and the last was so-so (but edible). I no longer see the point in making any no knead bread.
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep trying because everyone on the internet (until you just posted) seems to have gotten it to work for them and they seem really happy with the results. I also know people who claim they've done it and it works. So, I feel like I should be able to get it to work and properly document exactly what you should do to succeed... but now I'm starting to despair.
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:19 am    Post subject: Perhaps my last Reply with quote

I have two loaves cooling on a rack. They look beautiful. Still they are slightly burned on the bottom, and I have low expectations. I'm considering a theory based on rise and proof durations. But if these are anything like my previous attempts, I'm ready to return to kneading, which I enjoy, and baking loaves that I know I like.
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ktexp2



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made this bread several times since the recipe came out. I started using the closed-container method, but it somehow discolored my white-enameled pots (only ones I have that are wide enough).

Since I'm lazy and hate cleaning (and ran out of Magic Erasers), I started using a preheated pizza pan for the loaf; I just plop the dough in the center. However, to keep the humidity in the oven just right, I fill a casserole dish with boiling water and put it at the bottom of the oven. Saw this on TV once Smile

Crust is perfect, inside is perfect, and the loaf lasts all of 5 seconds after I pull it out of the oven.
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
was still damp (not gooey, but very moist).


"Gummy" came to mind last loaf.

Quote:
Is it really worth it?


SirSpice might have a point.

Anyone bake a loaf started in a cold oven? I read a story about a dude who let a loaf proof in a pot (possibly oiled) in an oven. Then he turned on the oven for some undisclosed amount of time. And of course, his bread was the best ever.

Also hear a fair amount of stories describing burn shapes resulting from wielding preheated bakeware. One claim described an arm sporting a Harry Potter like lightning bolt. Who knew baking could make us cool?
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone taking their bread's temperature prior to oven removal?
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Michael Chu



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: Austin, TX (USA)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thor wrote:
Anyone taking their bread's temperature prior to oven removal?

Yes. I get (consistently) 210°F when thrusting a Thermapen through the bottom of the loaf. The bread sings (crust crackles melodically) while cooling on its rack. Both signs are supposed to indicate a great loaf of bread. When it's fully cooled, the inside is still gummy. Since it's summer (and I don't need to introduce more heat into my home), I've put this project on hold, but I think I'm going to end up going back to a more traditional way of making bread.
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Thor



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Camp Hill, PA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Might Knead Therapy Reply with quote

Quote:
I get (consistently) 210įF when thrusting


Sometimes I read things that remind me of other things that ultimately lead me to think of some new things about a few old things. In this case, Iím reading Reinhartís The Bread Bakerís Apprentice. One of the primary processes that occurs during baking he refers to as gelatinization. His description of inadequate gelatinization sounded vaguely like ďgummyĒ to me, hence the connection to this discussion. However, the process should be complete in the 200 to 210 degree range, which you had. Since I had not been probing my loaf bottoms, I thought Iíd ask.

Iím not sure why I canít let this recipe go.
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Blue Pilgrim



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Ilinois

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I suppose you people will think I'm terrible, but I started doing 'no-knead' bread years ago. See, I have arthritus and fibromyalgia, so I often trouble physically moving. The one time I started some bread -- I nver use recipes, just go by what 'feels' right -- and ran out of steam in the middle.

I had already been doing it all in a big plastic container with a cover -- one of those rectangular things, which I think maybe Rubbermaid makes. I dump in some yeast, flour (different kinds) water, and whatever, and had started kneading it in there (without flour dust getting all over). I use a fairly moist dough (easier to wrestle with) and use a sturdy table knife to mix it all up. But my fingers started hurting so I just closed it up and figure it could do it's thing on it own. Some hours later I came back, mixed it again, and let it sit a few more hours. Then I sprinkled some flour on so I could pick it up without it sticking to my hands, plopped it on a cookie sheet, and started the oven heating. When it reached -- maybe 350 -- I put the pan in and baked it. It was bread -- it was good bread.

If I feel half-way decent whatever I make is OK -- never the same as a before but OK. If I have the miseries I'll ruin making a cup of tea. Since then if i make bread I do it like that -- last two times instead of clearing off the stove to light the oven I made steamed bread on the stove top, with cracked wheat. Not really 'bread' -- more of a pudding, but it was OK. I make a lot of different things -- it's just that I often don't what they are until after I finish making them.... "What do you want for supper" I ask myself? "I don't know -- surprise me!" And I do. If something comes out not too good I put cheese on it: cheese makes anything edible.
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