Thanks to Florian for providing the Celcius conversions!
Methinks that grapeseed oil when it can be purchased at a reasonable price can replace peanut and coconut oils for high heat uses. Your chart shows grapeseed with an adequately high smokepoint for a cooking oil. It is light and drains easily. Some say it actually lowers cholesterol -- opposite the popular deep frying oils.
Sorry to add this extra comment, but as I thought, most sites report grapeseed oil with a smoke free range from 420F to 485F -- plenty hot. It maintains its healthy properties at the highest cooking temperature (up to 485 degrees F).
No Trans-fatty acids
High in Antioxidants
Vitamin E: 11-22mg/serving
Highest concentration of monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats of any oil
Lowest level of saturated fat of any oil
72+% Lineolic Acid (Omega 6)
May help increase HDL (good) and reduce LDL (bad) Cholesterol
There is a grapeseed oil fact sheet at http://www.deerfieldranch.com/FactSheets/GSO.Fact.sheet.html
I don;t sell it. I just have learned to use it a lot.
I welcome all comments.
A few comments on your assessment of grapeseed oil:
No Cholersterol, sodium, trans-fatty acids, preservatives - these are true for all pur vegetable oils.
High in antioxidants and vitamin E - yes, grapeseed oil is a good source for vitamin E.
Highest concentration of mono and poly of any oil - untrue. Canola and safflower are two commonly available oils with lower saturated fat. (And in my fats article I note that avoidance of saturated fats may not be a healthful choice. In fact, high consumption of polyunsaturates should be avoided.) Unlike canola oil, grapeseed oil is mostly polyunsaturated.
Almost all of the polyunsaturated fatty acids in grapeseed oil is linoleic acid which is an omega-6 fatty acid. High consumption of omega-6 oils is not recommended as it inhibits the body's ability to process alpha-linolenic acid (omega-3) fatty acids. Don't get me wrong, omega-6 is essential, but (at least in the U.S.) we get a large amount of omega-6 in our food already. Supplementing your diet with an 72% omega-6 oil may not be such a good idea.
I'm not familiar with the ability of grapeseed oil to increase HDL and reduce LDL counts. Anyway, I don't take too much stock in the cholesterol hypothesis.
Mary Enig suggests an equal parts combination of coconut oil, sesame oil, and olive oil for frying for maximum health benefits.
I use either extra light olive oil or canola oil for my frying currently as it is difficult for me to purchase other beneficial high heat oils at a price point that I am willing to spend.
I am impressed with the smoke point tables and realy the whole site.
I have recently become aware of an oil (widely available) from india called,
"Gingelly Oil" which has nice properties and is inexpensive hoowever takes some practice with getting used to mixing the taste into things. I'm looking for info on this oil if anyone has any???
Gingelly oil, according to my understanding is just sesame seed oil. It's just called by a different name in India.
Someone tell me if I understand this correctly, and comment on how this effects the "healthfulness" of otherwise healthy oils: polyunsaturates, while considered healthy, become trans-fatty at 360 F. If we agree-- and most seem to-- that trans-fat is far less healthy than even saturated fat, then this heat makes sesame, flax, et al less healthy than beef tallow. One is definitely inclined to use a low-poly oil for frying at high temperatures, but these usually don't have the highest smoke points. What then?
Can anyone shed any light on Tea Oil used for cooking? It is not very common but apparently from the reports I've read regarding its properties, it seems to be as healthy as olive oil, with an 82% mono fat content, and a low 10% sat fat content. It also boasts a high smoking point and decent levels of Omega-3's. So why is it so uncommon?
I was looking at the list for smoke points ofr certain fats, but i did not see duck fat. I was wandering if anyone knoew the smoke point ofr duck fat. I am a chef and I would like to use duck fat as a cooking medium in my deep fat fryer to cook with, especially our house made potato chips. If anyone knows the temperature I would greatly appreciate to get the information. You can contact me by email at ChefJRD@aol.com. Thank you
Very interesting info on cooking oil.
How about posting references on scientific information
in general, so it's not just like rumor which gets
so tiresome after seeing it much.
That was the nice thing about Laurel's Kitchen cookbook.
My name is chris I am a chef in Cincinnati Ohio. I was wondering if there is a chart or formula for the point when the oil lights on fire or flash points. Chris
I found the following information at http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2385
Duck and Goose Fat – this was used in traditional Jewish cooking, even more so that chicken fat. As with any animal, the omega-3 to omega-6 ratios varies depending on their diet.
· Omega-6 to omega-3 ratio – 13:1
· Omega-3 fatty acids = 0
· Omega-6 fatty acids = 13%
· Omega- 9 fatty acids = 52%
· Saturated Fat = 35%
· Smoke Point = 375 F
Michael, trans fats are made through the process of hydrogenation. While heating an oil past its smoke point will cause it to break down and oxidize, it DOES NOT cause trans fats. Definately *avoid* shortening and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils! It's a good idea not to cook any oil under high heat circumstances.
Would you please explain to me what it means for oils to be "refined," "semirefined," and "unrefined," or none of the above, and which of these correspond to the stuff you find on the shelf at Kroger and Safeway?
There are apparently huge differences in the characteristics of the oils, depending upon whether or not they are "refined." For example, your chart shows:
Unrefined safflower oil 225°F
Semirefined safflower oil 320°F
Refined Safflower oil 450°F
Safflower oil 510°F
That's an astonishing range of temperatures!
dave263 at burtonsys.com
do you know what the smokng point for unrefined grapeseed oil and refined grapeseed oil?
I have grapeseed oil's smoke point listed at 420°F. Assume refined if I don't list another version. As to unrefined grapeseed oil, I wasn't able to find this info. Anyone know?
Hey i was wonderin for my school project, does oil have the ability to preserve food? :)
Yes, oil potentially has the ability to preserve food, but this must be carefully done. Oil is used in preservation by creating a (mostly) oxygen free environment if the object to be preserved is fully submerged in the oil. However, some bacteria and spores can survive (and even thrive) in an oxygen deficient environment. Only attempt to preserve food if you are experienced in this or are learning to do it from someone who is experienced.
I'm not sure why anyone would want to A) Deep fry at a temperature higher than 375 degrees, and B) Saute at a temperature higher than about 300 degrees. So, why would one need grapeseed oil for its high smoke point? (I use it because it has a clean, neutral flavor and a light viscosity.)
true, high high on unstable oils creates lipid peroxides, which are also unhealthy.
I disagree they are not impurities, they are associated cofactors/enzymes that I consider as nutrients.
We learned in chemistry that oils can quicky go rancid if left in the light (photoreactive) as well as oxidize. Isn't it interesting that most oils at the store are in clear bottles that have a shelf life of 2 to 3 years if not longer, whereas their counter parts unrefined oils will decompose and go bad within months.
Why is that I believe it is because of the refining process, oils put under high temperatures and all "impurities as you put it" have been removed. Thus increasing shelf life so the store owners don't have to throw it away.
This same mentality has been used with Milk and Eggs, does anyone remember how Milk used to only last a week before curdling. Now it lasts twice as long. Remember when we used to crack eggs and sometimes would find alittle white thing in there along with some blood, not anymore what happened how come? eggs used to go bad in our fridge within 2 weeks, that was fun because we used to get them to have an egg war. Unfortunately not anymore, Im older now but Ive had eggs in the fridge for 3 weeks and after opening them they looked fine why is that?
sorry for the long statement, main point is that oil reacts to light but not any of the oils at the store why?
I live in the UK, so this may not apply to where you live... but....
Over here, milk lasts longer than it used to because of the advances in pasteurisation. This (as I understand it) is treating the milk to kill any bacteria in it that cause it to go bad. This lengthens shelf life by a huge amount, although once the milk is opened, it will go off eventually due to bacteria "migrating" into the bottle. If you want an even longer shelf life, then you can buy UHT (Ultra High Temperature) milk, which is essentially boiled at high temperatures to kill virtually all bacteria.
Eggs no longer have those spots in them because they are unfertilised. This means that there is no chance of getting chicken embryos in the eggs. Our eggs are also lion-marked, meaning that the chickens that leyed them were vaccinated against Salmonella.
It's interesting that you pointed out *exactly* what's so convenient and disturbing about current food processing. People want milk that looks the same throughout (i.e. not with cream on top and separation of fat particles) and that lasts longer than a few days. We also want eggs that don't look like little embryos. We especially don't want to risk getting sick from our food and so many of our foods today are irradiated, homogenised, pasteurised, sterilised and so on.
Brigning it back to oils, the question of why oils last so long on the shelf is a good one. And why doesn't canola oil smell like....anything? The refining process requires a lot of mechanical pressure and heat and the oils simply oxidise. Then they have to bleach and filter them to get them to look the way they do in those clear bottles on the shelf. If you can find Rapunzel oils in your local health food stores, you should splurge sometime on a bottle of their organic, unrefined canola oil. It's a rich yellow colour and has the most amazing smell and taste. I love to bake cookies with them (being sure to keep the oven below 300F) yum!
But of course, the smoke point is then so much lower with unrefined oils. I try to do the olive oil/coconut oil combo when I need to stir-fry, and then I drizzle on sesame oil at the end just for flavour.
A friend of mine and myself were having a fairly heated (haha geddit!) argument the other night (albeit after a few beers) over whether sunflower oil or olive oil burns at a higher temperature... I said sunflower oil burns hotter, and so is better for things like stir frys, sauteeing etc... I think this shows I was right, although we didnt specify the exact conditions... Going with the unrefined values... I win!
Thanks for settling this!!! :D
This is actually all wrong. I (well actually my wife) produce eggs for the local farmer's market. We don't do _anything_ to our chickens, just give them food and water and shelter, and steal their children.
The eggs we sell do occasionally have blood or meat spots. Commercial eggs don't have those because they are "candled". This originally meant that someone literally held each egg up to a candle, looking for any weird shadows that indicated something not quite right. Modern egg production uses machinery, including a contraption that rolls eggs past some sort of optical electrosensor. This is also the main reason that white eggs are so popular in the US: they're much easier to candle (which means the producer would rather deal with them) and the candling results are more certain (which means the consumer is happier with them).
We rarely get complaints about blood or meat spots, nor do we often find them in the eggs we eat. I believe this is because our chickens are healthy and active. Meat spots are literally bits of chicken meat -- bits of the hen that broke off and got incorporated into the egg while it was being produced. Imagine something similar to the colon polyps we're all told to watch out for. Blood spots are likewise bits of blood that leaked in during production. These things can happen as part of normal wear and tear in the bird. But imagine birds that live in 1x1 foot cages where they can barely turn around, fed high-energy feed full of hormones and god knows what else (probably not antibiotics -- I think that's actually illegal in the US, even for the big commercial operations). Birds that aren't healthy or physically fit. I imagine these birds probably make more blood & meat spots than ours. I have no specific facts to back this up, just the observation that we seem to have very few spots in our production. Not enough to warrant the effort of candling.
The only machine we use is a compressor to bubble air into an egg bath. We "wash" our eggs in dilute baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) solution.
Our eggs are fertilized (roosters run with the hens). We label them as such: "fertilized", not "fertile". We refrigerate our eggs (ok, I was wrong, that's a 2nd machine. The car we drive them to market in is as third.) Refrigerated eggs can sometimes be hatched, but they are not reliably fertile. If someone wants eggs for hatching, we make special arrangements to bring them un-refrigerated eggs. We are careful to label "fertilized" because this matters to certain subspecies of vegetarians.
Our eggs never look like embryos because bird eggs do not begin to develop until they have been held consistently warm for about 48 hours. This is a natural mechanism to prevent a nest full of eggs from hatching one by one (which results in mama hen wandering off to care for the first hatchling, and the rest of the eggs dying of cold). Mama bird lays an egg, sits on it for an hour or so, wanders off to eat, has a normal day. That night she sits on the eggs and keeps them warm all night. Repeat the next 6-10 days. Eventually there are enough eggs, she decides to seriously sit. That first egg has been sat on (brought up to body temperature) many times, possibly 10 times for 8-12 hours each time, but it has not progressed any farther in development than the last one laid. All the eggs in this nest will develop at the same rate and hatch within 12-24 hours of each other (21 days later, for chicken eggs).
Eggs do not go bad in 14 days in the fridge. Eggs don't go bad in 14 days on the counter, even a sunny counter. Before we started selling at the market, we often ate our own eggs that had been refrigerated for five months. By then they were starting to get runny, but still perfectly edible. If your mom gave you the eggs after 14 days, it was because she believed they were too old, not because they were actually going bad.
The USDA currently requires eggs to be labeled with their pack date and an expiration date 30 days later. Note that it is the pack date (which could be arbitrarily later), not their lay date. We label with the lay date, which is technically in violation, but always earlier or the same as the pack date (so at worst we are making our eggs "seem" older than they are, by their standards).
It may be that the USDA (equivalent agency back then?) used to require a 14-day expiration stamp. So your mom believed it and gave you eggs to throw. Now you're in charge of the fridge and you believe the 30 days stamped by today's standards.
Note that you cannot reliably expect store-bought eggs to last for 5 months in the fridge. Because the USDA has producers label by pack date, you really have no idea how old your eggs are. There's actually a reason that producers might deliberately age eggs: truly fresh eggs don't hard boil well. Well, they boil just fine, but they're really hard to peel. Bits of egg white stick firmly to the shell; you end up shredding the white pretty badly. If one brand of eggs had that property and the next one didn't, which one would still be on the market 6 months later? So there's a strong incentive for egg producers to age their eggs a few weeks, despite the inventory management costs. Once you have the necessary warehouse space to handle this rotating inventory stream, the exact age of eggs making it to store shelves is going to ebb and flow according to how the chickens are producing and how many eggs people are buying.
We don't do anything specific to combat this. If a customer mentions they intend to hard-boil, we steer them to an older dozen (we go to market every 1-2 weeks, so we have eggs at least a week old). We tell them to save the eggs a couple weeks before using them for that purpose. And we tell about a couple tricks: lightly crack the egg before boiling (it will leak a bit but may be easier to peel); themally shock them after boiling (drop into cold water until cool, drop back into the still-hot boiling pan). We haven't actually experimented enough with these techniques ourselves, we just use old eggs for hard boiling.
Part-time chicken engineer.
Oh yes it does! :P
Here's the chemistry. "trans" and "cis" refer to the shape of otherwise identical molecules. In an unsaturated fat, there are occasional double bonds. This leaves two adjacent carbon atoms with only a single hydrogen attached to each instead of the usual two. This produces a slight push on one side of the chain. Hence the molecule can take either of two shapes: if the hydrogens are on the same side, the chain gets a (double) kink, if they are opposite, there is just a tiny zig-zag and the chain remains pretty well straight.
So we have:
H H H H H H
| | | | | |
-C-C-C -C-C-C H H
| | \\ | | \\ | |
H H C-H H H C-C-C-
| | | |
H-C-H H H H
The natural form of most fats is the kinked "cis" isomer, the straighter "trans" form is unnatural and harmful. Both forms are stable at room temperature. However, when oil is heated the thermal vibration can wrench the double bond around into the other position. This occurs below the smoke point, so high temperature cooking transforms some of the natural cis fat into the harmful trans variety. It is not entirely negligible - this is one of the reasons they recommend not using cooking oil over and over again.
Regards, Derek Potter
One more off-subject comments on the eggs -- I also have had chickens and raised my own eggs, and one of the first things I noticed was how much thicker the shells were on my home grown eggs.
Here is my hypothesis -- grocery store eggs come from chickens fed the bare minimum to get the product to market and maximize profitability. Thin shells are the result of less availability of minerals in the chicken's system to produce a thicker shell. Thin shells also allow the eggs to be "candled" or optically inspected more efficiently (for all of us consumers that value predictability in our egg cracking experience). Thin shells also allow oxidation of the eggs (the process that causes spoilage as evidenced by that little bubble of air you find between the membrane and the shell in older eggs, and allows you to do the "float test" to determine an egg's freshness before you are unpleasantly surprised). So, grocery store eggs spoil faster IMHO, and are less nutritious (because that same programming principle of garbage in -- garbage out also works for food processing)
Am I far off the mark, anyone with more knowledge and less experience in this area?
Is it more harmful to deep fry something or styr fry something lets say chicken for instance and about how much harmful is one over the other.
Improvement of cholesterol levels is attributed to all unsaturated fats : http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html
i did not realize that soybean, safflower and avocado oils have very high smoke points. the oil that is not on the list but is getting a lot of attention is rice bran oil - smoke point 490 f /254 c. i use it to coat barbecue grills before grilling and it does a great job in preventing the meat from sticking to the grill :)
However, another source for similar information (admittedly less objective by nature) is Spectrum Organic's 1-2-3 guide to cooking oils. They offer a bunch of different oils at reasonable prices and their guide is written for their oils, so at least you know what product they refer to. (NOW oils seems to process their products in a similar fashion, FWIW).
It is a PDF file, but otherwise it is about perfect.
Sorry, failed to preview the link before posting...
Use this direct link to the PDF file of the 1-2-3 cooking guide
to avoid having to click through.
It does not cover rice bran oil, of which I bought a 16oz. bottle for $5 and used for a bo luc lac yesterday evening. It worked well at high heat, so there are some oils worth exploring which are not in the 1-2-3 guide. But the guide is more specific and less confusing than Mr. Chu's (great!) table, above.
Hope this helps others to choose wisely.
B) How about rice bran oil-HOT-HOT-smoke point 490 degrees and of course you want to fry at a high heat- why not with a good trans fat free cooking oil.
You can always find rice oil at www.californiariceoil.com. It is a good value.
Lots of people keen on their cooking. I have taken to using beef dripping or lard as approriate when cooking meats, a much more suitable flavour, of course.
What brought me to the site however is my seach for a heat transfer oil, anybody know some flash and fire points of high temperature oils. also why do manufactures bother to make synthetic ois for heat transfer when these veg oils have such higher smoke/flash points?
Does anyone have any recommendations for an oil to use in seasoning cast iron cookware? Most of what I have always been told to use was either vegetable shortening or liquefied bacon fat. I'm about to re-season mine and wonder if a something with a higher smoke point would last any longer or if any are more resistant to acid attack (such as tomato based sauces).
I like to cook with Grapeseed oil. It has a high smoke point-around 420F and has VERY little taste. To season cast iron with it, you need to coat the pan well and "cook" the pan above its smoke point so the oil carbonizes. I'd bake it at 450F in an oven for an hour. When you take the pan out, let it cool and it must be smooth and NOT tacky to the touch. If the pan is sticky, all you have is a dirty pan. Put it back and cook it longer or if your oven never got to 450, check the temperature with an oven thermometer and cook it again.
Also, take a look at this thread. Jorg's technique works.
Well I tried the grapeseed oil technique.
I poured some grapeseed oil inside the pan, then used a paper towel to spread it around the rest of the pan (bottom, handle, and sides), baked at 400 F for 45 minutes, spread another layer on and baked at 450 for 45 minutes and 500 for 45 minutes (since I've seen the smokepoint of the oil varied here between 420-485 F).
What turned out was mostly perfect. The inside of the pan was as smooth as could be (not gummy anywhere) but also appeared somewhat striated. To explain, it looked as if some of it had carbonized at different rates in little pools or bubbles, but being that I put it on the rack upside down, this could not be the case. The rims of the pan, on the other hand, appeared almost powder coated in some spots and had raised areas of carbonization. These were easily scraped off with a thumbnail and revealed what looks like *rust* on the underside of these raised areas. This, too, came off with a fingernail, but it certainly looks a lot like rust.
I have decided that I will put more oil on the inside and the rim and try this again at no more than 450 F.
When reading Michael's comments on Polyunsaturated fat, I am unsure of how he comes to the conclusion they are bad and should be avoided. I am studying nutrition and I have learned they are good fats- in fact, the best fats. He is right in saying too much Omega-6 fatty acids are bad, and we do get enough or too much in our diets, but it is the ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 fatty acids that is important. Omega-3's are polyunsaturated and are the most beneficial to your health when you are getting Omega-6's. Michael says a diet high in polyunsaturates should be resricted, and I don't know how he can come to that conclusion. When he says, "And in my fats article I note that avoidance of saturated fats may not be a healthful choice. In fact, high consumption of polyunsaturates should be avoided" he is giving people false information. Saturated fats are much worse for blood cholesterol levels and overall heart health, and I don't think these claims that 'polyunsaturated are bad' is accurate. This is misleading people, and they need to know the full story- they need a ratio between 2:1 and 4:1 (Omega-6 to Omega-3) for optimal health benefits.
As well, do people really heat an oil past 100 degrees celsius? Most oils high in polyunsaturated fat won't be forming trans fats because most people don't heat their oil to a very high temperature. If they are using it for deep frying, they can use a high stability variety. This is by far the better alternative to saturated fats.
There is merit to what you say, but over the last couple years I've been reading more and more about the research conducted in this area and am leaning towards agreeing with Michael and his views on fats. It is true that a healthy ratio of n-6 and n-3 fatty acids should be maintained, but in the Western world we consume so much more n-6 than n-3 it's obscene (ratios of 6:1 or 10:1 are not uncommon). He doesn't say (I wouldn't back him up on this if he did) to cut out poly, just to limit consumption. This is because poly has a tendency to break down easily (not just through overheating, repeated use, but also in the stomach during digestion) and release free radicals. It's not an issue of poly turning into trans, but an issue of cancer causing agents being released into the body. Once way to combat this is to add an oil stabilizer such as acetic acid to your oil, another is to eat a lot of antioxidants. (Or, as Michael suggests, simply focus more on monounsaturated and saturated fats which do not have this problem.) Avoiding trans should drastically reduce your chances of heart disease; reducing consumption of poly should reduce your chances of certian types of cancer.
Also, on a different subject, Michael may be right about saturated fats. Experiments have to be performed again on saturated fats (not a mixutre of trans and sat fats as was previously done) to demonstrate if they are harmful to the body. The whole cholesterol consumption thing is bullshit as well (apologies for the language Michael)
Do you cook anything with oil? The pan barely sizzles with water when you heat oil to 100...
I'm not disputing the fact that too much Omega-6 is bad, and we already get too much in our diets. I completely agree with that.
The major issue I have is over the saturated fat. Saturated fat DOES raise cholesterol levels and clog arteries - unless I'm wasting my tuition studying nutrition. The american heart association has a section on trans fats you may want to look over.
Here is a study by professionals:
"Influence of n-6 versus n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids in diets low in saturated fatty acids on plasma lipoproteins and hemostatic factors"
Author(s): Sanders TAB, Oakley FR, Miller GJ, Mitropoulos KA, Crook D, Oliver MF
Source: ARTERIOSCLEROSIS THROMBOSIS AND VASCULAR BIOLOGY 17 (12): 3449-3460 DEC 1997
In which they conclude "This study shows that in a group of healthy young men with an average plasma cholesterol concentration of 4.2 mmol/l (163 mg/dl) when consuming a diet in which fat supplies only about 30% of energy requirements, removal of saturated fatty acid leads to a reduction in their plasma cholesterol concentration."
This article, in my opinion, is unbiased and talks about some of the concerns you presented on omega-3's, however, it also seems to me that it supports Omega-3's as a better choice. There are so many factors you have to look at before you can make claims, I just don't agree with presenting people with misleading ideas that only present one side of the story.
But, hey, I guess a degree in computer engineering gives you the authority to influence what people eat.
If there is a peer-reviewed, scientific article published by a professional that says saturated fat is good and should be consumed instead of polyunsaturated fat, then I will take it all back.
And by the way:
Q. I was told that canola oil changed to trans fatty acids when it is heated, as in cooking. Is this true?
The phenomenon that occurs is vegetable oils is known as lipid oxidation or rancidity. Lipid oxidation involves the breakdown of fatty acids in the oil to produce secondary compounds that reduce the nutritive value and produce off-flavors and odors. Only under the most severe frying circumstances will the fatty acid composition of an oil be significantly altered. It is very rare for either the consumer or food processor to fry with an oil under the conditions necessary for the formation of trans fatty acids. The production of trans fatty acids to any significant degree in an oil without the use of hydrogenation is extremely rare. It is important to note that foods prepared in rancid fats are likely to be inedible due to the development of off-flavor and odors as well as deterioration in the appearance of the oil. The oil would likely be discarded before it could be subjected to the levels of light, heat and oxygen necessary to produce trans fatty acids
Canola Oil: Effects of Processing & Frying on Fatty Acid Composition, Canola Information Service.
read "The oiling of america" as well as the other articles here on fats.
I am trying to choose a good healthy frying oil and dont care much for any of the olive oils, what are some of the pros and cons to sunflower oil?
What about cooking in a Wok? Proper technique with wok cooking usually involves very, very high temperatures -- using amazingly high heat output burners (I've read pro wok burners are up to 100k BTUs). Yet the Chinese use oil, how does this work? How do they not consume trans-fats, and damage the oil past the smoke point?
I can't even imagine using a burner putting out 100K btu's of energy under a wok. I have burners running off high pressure gas valves that will put out 60K and 170K btu's, and I would never use even the 60K burner on full output for a wok. I use those biggies for boiling 40-80 quart pots with water for seafood fests and cooking massive amounts of corn on the cob at BBQ's for 100 people, and I still don't use them at full blast. For deep frying turkeys I use either of the big burners, but still never on high, even to get the oil up to my starting temperature.
A 100K burner used full tilt with a wok would simply turn the wok red hot and the food would just burn after a very short period of time--and I don't mean cooking time, it would just burn on the outside and the inside would just be raw. 30K btu for a wok is way more than enough, and once up to temperature, even that can be lowered. Basically, a good stove with 15-20K btu gas burners will do a fine job with a 14-16" wok.
Yes, Chinese wok cooking involves heating the oil way past its smoke or even (I've seen this in "open kitchen" Chinese restuarants) its flash point.
This may be a factor in China having the highest rate of stomach cancer of any country in the world.
Michael....you said..." The refined nature of extra light olive oil mainly affects taste and smoke point, but does not reduce the nutritional benefits of olive oil." :unsure:
this is completely contrary to anything i have read. CAn you please provide a source? It is my understanding that only Extra Virgin Olive oil is healthy. All 'light' and 'pure' olive oils, in my understanding, have been extracted with high heats or solvents.
Nutritionally, light olive oil and extra virgin olive oil are practically the same in terms of percentages of fatty acids. I haven't actually read a study that shows light olive oil is not as "healthy" as extra virgin - in fact, I haven't been able to find a real study showing why EVOO is considered to be a healthful oil. Most of that seems to be based around the anecdotal evidence that Mediterranean cultures consume a lot of EVOO and they appear to be healthy. There are some studies centered around the fatty acids proportions in EVOO, but if that's the case, then light olive oil is the same nutritionally. Healthfulness of a food is harder to define (especially when the other food - EVOO - isn't clear why it's healthful).
Wow! Thank you so much for the information and the chart!
I love your blog and hope you'll keep blogging for a long time.
I found your site at the bottom of the Wikipedia page on the smoke point of oils and your values are very, very different from theirs. Can you tell me your reference for this table?
I too would like to know the references for this data.
Unfortunately, I don't have my sources anymore. I had built this list from various sources (written down on paper) and then transcribed them a couple years later when I started Cooking For Engineers. I suspect I will need to revisit this topic (smoke points) in the future.
Harvard School of Public Health article (link below) says mono and polyunsats are good. Bad are saturated and trans.
Seems the opposite of what Michael says. Is there some other factors to explain the difference?
Has anyone else used Olean (olestra) for frying? The smoke point is 480F and it contains nothing! No fat, no cholesterol, no nutritional components, nothing. It doesn't add any flavor to the cooked food. I've filtered it and re-used it 5 or 6 times and it never seems to "spoil".
jkarle1106, there are other problems
Personally, I try to completely avoid artificial foods. They don't seem to have a particularly good track record. (Think trans-fat.)
I don't believe it's an artificial ingredient, I think it's what's known as an enantiomer, or a mirror image of the fat it replaces. The body just doesn't recognize it as a fat.
Do you have a way of telling what the temperature settings are for stove top burners (electric)?
What I mean; does the manufactures have a temperature guide for their stoves; telling me what temperature is the medium setting or medium/high; you know #7 on the dial?
And does someone manufacture a thermometer that has a flat bottom to lay in the oil in the pan or do I still use a pointed end model? With all the new technology out there what's new for cooking oils?
Since the most common house hold fires are created in the kitchen involving grease/oils.
In conclusion; please explain it to me as if I've never used an electric burner before; because I am frustrated with guessing what is the actual temperature of my stove top burners; it seems to me the "medium" setting will eventually boil water; it just keeps getting hotter and hotter; why is that?
Hi Brian -
it's largely a matter of experience vs. "setting a specific temp"
I'm not aware of any (gas or) electric burners that "measure" the temp of the pan or the contents and "automatically adjust the dial" to maintain a specific temp.
the basic problem is the variability of "what is on the burner" vs the electrical energy input needed to reach and/or maintain a "set temp"
for example - boiling water. one would want max power input to bring the pot to a boil as quickly as possible (sometimes... consider cooking pasta vs poaching eggs - two different issues there) however once the pot is boiling, much less energy/heat input is required.
an example on the opposite end of the task range is heating a (thick) sauce - max power would probably burn the bottom - this task requires lower slower heating.
but how does the stove know that?
as for checking the temp, there are IR non-contact thermometers which are reasonably accurate.
theoretically "combining" the technologies, a cooktop could have permanently mounted IR over each burner to "measure" the temp of the pot contents (there are some 'calibration' issues, ignored for the moment) but that still leaves the question for the "automation system" - does it heat max&fast or low&slow or [something]in-between?
one possible solution is ala the "smart" microwaves of today.
"one bag of small popcorn, please" gets input by the user, the microwave has a stored program of power level, on/off cycle times, and total time for "a small bag." there are a lot more "options" needed for a stove....
the problem is less complicated for an "auto maintain this temp" button - user gets the pot to "where you want it" - push "auto" button.
again assuming some method of measuring the contents, the auto function could adjust the burner setting to maintain a constant temp - but "user smarts" are still required to establish the set point.
and it could easily be 'fooled' - say you want to fry pork chops. get the pan up to temp, frying away, remove one batch that is done, plop in a cold batch. same old "how much how fast" question comes back - if the burner goes to max power to recover the set temp, you're apt to get charred pork chops....
I use Extra Cold Filtered Rice Bran Oil - according to my bottle here it contains no cholestrol, smoking point of 250°C (482°F), plant sterols (oryzanol), vitamin E and packs a light flavour ;) It's more expensive here in Australia than most other oils but I love cooking with it.
Do have information regarding a general temperature range for the flash point of the greases/oils used in commercial fryers?
To the person who is looking for research on saturated fats, there is a site called coconutoil.com that lists several research articles on coconut oil. I have not yet read them, but I will. Briefly scanning the site, it looks like they may have a good argument on this typically "poopooed" oil.
re the smoke point given for butter--is that for clarified or unclarified butter? Thanks.
I've seen a couple sources state clarified butter smoke point runs to 485'F
the 350'F is for butter right out of the package.
Super late to the discussion, but I'd like some clarification on the issue raised by anon back in '07
about polyunsaturated vs saturated fats.
Now, anon's attitude left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, and tbh, I actually hold a similar view to both Michael and Rickard; I remember my high school teacher telling us that polyunsaturated fats aren't really "good" fats so to speak (unlike what the mass media might have us believe) in comparison to saturated, just different. Speaking from memory here, he mentioned that while in Western countries, there was higher consumption of saturated oils, and also higher instances of heart disease, in cultures where polyunsaturated oils were consumed in higher amounts, there were higher instances of bowel cancer (I think; it was cancer of some
part of the digestive tract). Now again, this is all from memory, and of course, correlation doesn't mean causation, but this all seems to match up with what Rickard said.
Of course, when I asked my teacher back then which fat was "better", he answered moderation, I think it can be safely said that trans fat is bad. =]
I think people gotta stop worrying about what oil they use.
I see people deep fry in olive oil, I see people deep fry in cotton seed oil I see people deep fry in canola oil or vege oil.
I see people fry with peanut oil, sunflower, grapeseed rice bran, vege, soybean, canola, oilve oils etc...even lardand butter ghee.
if we actually got up of our butts and did a decent amount of physical exercise we would not need to be worries bout this kinda stuff....
20 30 yrs ago people used to cosume alot of bad things but they worked harder and had more active life styles.....
I buy various oils dependin on my buget that week....also you really think that ya local fish n chip shop do not care what oil they use YES when it comes to the money side of things NOT the health aspect.
>>what oil they use
to a large degree, I would agree. the 'fact' is the longer a fat is held at a temperature past its 'tolerance' the more it degrades. now,,,, 'longer' is rarely measured in minutes or hours that the home cook encounters for saute, frying, deep frying. but in a commercial setting where the deep fryers run for days and days and days, the type of oil can make a difference in how fast it breaks down, goes off flavor, generates nasty free radicals (and further such scary stuff)
the one issue the home cook may encounter is the oil 'burning' and going off flavor due to too much heat in the pan - obviously the higher the 'I'm gonna taste nasty' temperature, the less like this is to occur. however with very little effort one can turn virtually any oil/fat into a brown goopy foul tasting/smelling mess on an electric or gas burner. some attention to the task at hand is a really good solution to that problem.
we don't deep fry that much - so all that oil is essentially a 'one shot' use. we actually clean out the fry pans after use as well - so not much oil gets carried from saute to saute. all those nasty free radicals get fed to the garbage disposal - heh, it's happy.....
once upon a century dreary I too stocked peanut oil, safflower oil, olive oil, vegetable oil. ditched them, except for olive oil. I use it for any cooking process I need; fry or saute - if I want a browning effect I toss in a pat of unsalted butter. I still keep vegetable oil as an ingredient for recipes - and actually I use it for deep frying simply because olive oil is a lot more expensive.
if one does a dailyx365 diet of fried eggs/bacon at breakfast, fried hamburger for lunch, and deep fried chicken steak for dinner, then indeed one may need to pay attention to the specific oil. frankly, methinks that kind of diet needs more attention than the oil type, but heck - everybody does their own thing.
Spectrum Oils (Canadian Label) lists on their Refined Almond Oil a high heat rating (which I understand to be aka Smoke Point) of 495 F. Seems a clear (pardon pun) winner!
BTW, their pdf temperature listings are inaccurate, at least as of 09/16/10. They recommend to go by what's listed on the bottle as being accurate and current. Cheers.
>>clear winner at 495'F
avocado oil comes in at 520'F
""avocado oil comes in at 520'F"" dilbert
I am going with Spectrum Oils on this one. As I mentioned, when I questioned them on their discrepancy, they told me that their pdfs, where they listed 510, is inaccurate. http://www.spectrumorganics.com/images/uploads/49623ec41cb5b.pdf and http://www.spectrumorganics.com/images/uploads/496241e655274.pdf
They list 450 for their refined avocado oil and apparently that is supposed to be the current accurate rating. http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=6#j40
I figure if anyone would know, it would an oil specialty company like Spectrum that has been around forever. So I'll go with the 450.
If there was another brand of avocado oil that was unrefined, it would most likely be even lower.
However, at the same time, it does seem that there are many different temperatures for oil smoke points, depending on the manufacturing process and the manufacturer. So I guess we each have to go with what we figure are the best odds for accuracy. :-)
both reference cite 510'F - if it's wrong, and they know it's wrong, and they have not corrected / do no care to correct their documentation, not sure I'd go overboard with a lot of faith in anything they have to offer.
that said, I frankly don't think there's any practical difference in the home kitchen between smoke point 495'F, 510'F or 520'F
Isn't canola oil made from genetically-modified rapeseed? How can an oil that's made from genetically-modified ingredients be organic?
"Does anyone have any recommendations for an oil to use in seasoning cast iron cookware?"
Canola oil was developed through selective breeding. Although this involves the manipulation of genetics, because it is an indirect process (and one practiced for as long as agriculture and animal husbandry has been around) it is not considered genetically modified. There are more recent variants of canola oil which have been developed using genetic engineering techniques and these varieties cannot be labeled non-GMO.
Virtually all canola oil that is not labeled organic is GMO. Nothing that is certified organic can be GMO. There are very few species that were actually created through genetic engineering. They generally just take an existing crop and splice in a section of DNA from some other organism to get some desired characteristic like cold-resistance or tolerance to Round-Up. So there are still heirloom varieties of these plants around that are grown on organic farms, at least until they all get contaminated with the GMO's. Canola and corn are two things that are best avoided if they're not certified organic, and soy is just unhealthy in general, but most non-organic soy is GM, which just makes it even worse.
As for the stuff about the oils, I'm kind of confused by this smoke point stuff. I'm trying to figure out what the healthiest oil would be for deep frying, and I know that you normally don't want to heat it to more than about 375 anyway, but I'm not really going to know if I accidentally get it hotter than that, plus I'm planning to reuse the oil because I can't really afford to just use that much oil once and throw it out, so I figure I should get the most stable thing possible.
So I guess what I don't understand is, what determines the smoke point if it's not just how saturated the fat is? Does it have something to do with the lengths of the carbon chains? I had always heard that coconut oil could stand extreme heat, which made sense since it's almost all saturated, but now I'm seeing that its smoke point is only 350. And when a saturated fat is heated too much, is it still getting oxidized and forming free radicals? I had been thinking that nothing bad would happen to a saturated fat when it's heated because I knew that saturated fats can't become trans-fats since they already have the maximum amount of hydrogen. But I guess any kind of oil will burn, so they can all be oxidized - but I have no idea what's actually being produced when fats are oxidized, other than CO2 and heat. It seems like most of the oils with the highest smoke points are high in monounsaturates like oleic acid. So are monounsaturates about as heat-stable as saturates? I had been thinking that refined coconut oil would be the best for deep-frying, but I guess not if the smoke point is only 350. I also don't want to use anything GM like canola or soy oil. So it seems like maybe palm fruit oil would be the most economical choice. Maybe peanut or rice bran would also be good options? I also don't want something that's going to impart a lot of its own flavor on the food. I don't think I can afford the high-oleic sunflower/safflower. I was also considering lard or tallow, but they actually seem to have a relatively low smoke point as well, plus in a quick search it didn't seem like organic lard and tallow are available, and cows and pigs are typically fed GM feedstocks in addition to all the nasty chemicals they get shot up with, not even getting into the issue of how the animals are treated at industrial feedlots. Cottonseed is another one that is always GM (and I don't think I've ever even seen it at a store - just on processed food labels). And "vegetable oil" is typically just soy and/or canola, depending on what it says in the ingredients list - often you don't even know what you're getting.
To the people saying that oil choices aren't that important, I definitely disagree with that. I guess if you're not using oil very often then it doesn't matter much to you, but fat is an essential nutrient, so we all need to be somewhat conscious of what fats we're eating. As far as overall consumption, I think the main concerns are to try to maximize omega-3 intake while minimizing omega-6 since those are so unbalanced in the typical diet - and since they are both polyunsaturated, that's not something you can tell from product labels; not to overdo it too much on monounsaturates, because most studies show them has having positive effects on cardiovascular health, but also being correlated with some types of cancer; and probably to try to get some MCFA's since they seem to be so beneficial, and I guess maybe I've heard about other specific oils having antioxidant, antimicroibial, immune-boosting, etc. effects. The politically correct idea has for a while been that saturated fat is bad for you, or at least that animal fat is bad, but it seems like the jury is still out on all of that. I've actually read that athero-/arteriosclerosis have little to do with cholesterol levels and more to do with sugar intake and insulin levels.
Then the issue of what oils you can heat up and how much you can heat them is entirely separate from overall fat consumption. Here we are talking about taking in carcinogens, and I don't think that's something where exercise is going to make much of a difference. From what I understand, it seems pretty clear that polyunsaturated fats are highly unstable and that fats high in omega-3 like flax oil should never be heated at all, not to more than like 115 F or so (which of course makes me wonder about cooking fish). Then the monounsaturated and saturated fats are where things get fuzzy for me, as I was saying. So does anyone have a better understanding of this stuff than I do? I've even done some searching online and haven't really come up with a good explanation, although I don't know organic chemistry, so I haven't gotten into anything really technical.
Also, regarding "does not reduce nutritional benefits," the refining is not altering the actual fats that make up the oil, so their nutritional profile would be the same, but those vitamins, antioxidants, etc. that you're talking about in the butter are exactly what is lost or destroyed in the refining process. A lot of the nutritional benefits of food come from micronutrients, but all we usually hear about are the macronutrients. Also, if the light oil is obtained by chemical solvent extraction, there could be remnants of the solvent left in the final product. Anyway, the reason EVOO is recommended so much is because being cold-pressed and unrefined, it is a whole, raw food, and the only commonly available oil that fits that description (actually, maybe it's not technically whole, since it doesn't include the meat of the olive, but you get the idea). Once it is solvent-extracted, heat processed, refined, etc., it's no longer raw - it's just pure fat without any beneficial phytonutrients, just like every other refined oil.
By the way, I can't find a feature to subscribe to this topic, so if anyone responds, maybe they could email me at "revolution is patriotic" at gmail (no spaces). Thanks!
Does refined coconut oil have a higher smoke point temp.?
As cooking ingredients, refined and unrefined coconut oil have the same melting point---76 degrees F. However, refined coconut oil has a smoking point of 450 degrees F, whereas the smoking point of unrefined coconut oil is 350 degrees F. Because of its greater heat tolerance, refined coconut oil can be a better option for high-temperature cooking methods such as frying.
Read more: Refined Vs. Unrefined Coconut Oil | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5392760_refined-vs-unrefined-coconut-oil.
I use Tea Seed Oil (Camellia Oleifera). It has the following health benefits
HIGH SMOKE POINT 485F,
HIGH POSITIVE INFLAMMATION FACTOR RATING, +1125
HIGH OMEGA 9 (MONOUNSATURATED FAT) 79.55%
LOW SATURATED FAT 9.81%
NO TRANS FAT
My name is Regine. I am really thankful that I find this info. This really help me from my report dealing with FATS AND OILS...Anyway, I'm a college student from VSU...
I enjoyed the comments by Matt 6543 recently. I have the same dilemma of not knowing what type of oil to use for deep frying. There are so many different ideas about what is good and bad.
Use unrefined oil and it can smoke at the temperature that you need for deep frying potatoes. With the best of intentions, I tried unrefined red palm oil but this smokes at above 160C. OK for fish in batter, but at that temperature you get soggy chips/French fries and it can take 15 minutes to cook potatoes properly. It's also a messy hassle to filter palm oil after frying as it goes solid when cold. You should ideally filter oil after every use to avoid burnt residues of flour, batter and breadcrumbs from building up. When I switched to refined rapeseed oil at 190C, the potatoes cooked to a crisp golden colour in only 6 minutes and were so much better for it...the best I'd tasted for ages after persevering with the red palm oil for far too long. But now we hear that these refined oils are solvent extracted and processed at high temperatures to remove low smoke point fats. So they may not burn but they could easily still be vulnerable to lipid peroxidation with continued use and the formation of trans fats (if one seemingly knowledgable scientist contributer is correct). Who would want to throw the oil away every time you fry? It's so wasteful.
For now I will continue with refined high smoke point oils for deep frying (Maybe light olive oil rather than rapeseed)because the only thing I am sure of is that my fried potatoes are definitely much better for it! It's quick, so I use less power, waste less time and the potatoes are done crisply and perfectly. I can easily filter the oil the next day when it is cool.
For all other uses, I always use extra virgin olive oil: e.g. salads, drizzling over savoury foods and sauteeing. I also drizzle it over toast or dip the toast in the oil with garlic crushed in it, rather than spread butter(I do like unsalted butter on freshly baked bread). The taste of extra virgin olive oil is great, subtly hot and peppery without any greasiness, and it is good value now in supermarkets.
As far as the debate on saturated fats goes, I am not at all convinced of the tired old story that saturated fat is bad for your heart. It's gone into the nutrition bible and will take a generation or two to exsponge. It doesn't matter how many papers you quote....there is now real debate about this topic among nutritionists.
I am a pharmacologist by training and did an experiment on myself to see if I could find out what was happening to my cholesterol on high and low fat diets. I put myself on a high fat/very low carb diet for two weeks, followed by high fat/low carb for 4 weeks and then a very low fat /high carb diet for another 4 weeks. The saturated fat intake was 6 times higher in the high fat diets than in the very low fat diet. There was a control period of 2 weeks at the start. I had my lipid profile measured after each period. The best lipid profile was after the high fat/very low carb period. HDL was well up and triglycerides markedly lower, with LDL about the same as control. The ratio of HDL to triglycerides is considered a good marker of heart risk, the higher the better. There were similar results for the second period but less pronounced. With the low fat/high carb diet there was little difference to control. These results suggest that it is the carb intake that is most important for a good lipid profile and that high fat(including 6 times as much saturated fat) is not detrimental. I rest my case! Of course, maybe I should not be eating potatoes at all to cut down on carbs, but then we can't all be saints!
for full results
Then why not try frying in duck fat? It makes the most incredible french fries.
The author commented that he liked cooking with light olive oil and butter and one of the reasons he listed were that both were low in polyunsaturated fat. That doesn't seem like a good thing to me, wouldn't you prefer they were high is polyunsaturated fat? Polyunsaturated fat is a good thing.
No polyunsaturated fat is not a good thing - it is a very bad thing. Saturated fat is a good thing. Use natural fats that have been around for hundreds of years - butter, lard (not the hydrogenated stuff most stores sell), tallow, bacon grease. Cholesterol is not the evil it is made out to be. The brain and heart need cholesterol and cholesterol isn't absorbed from the food eaten. For those who think cholesterol is a problem - mine went from 201 to 165 in 4 months when I switched to a low carb high saturated fat diet and I lost weight. I have done a lot of research on this issue. The studies that claim saturated fat is bad and polyunsaturated fat is good ignore previous studies that say the opposite and are manipulated to say what they want it to say. Many of those studies are a subset. What subset means is that they do a study and if the results say opposite of what they wanted it to say and a small portion of it seems to say what they want the results to be, they publish only the portion that says what they wanted the results to say.
A good place to start researching this issue is: http://www.westonaprice.org
A heart surgeon (don't remember his name) recently came out and said that inflammation causes the cholesterol to stick to the arteries. In the absence of inflammation, cholesterol flows through the vessels like it is supposed to do. Inflammation explains why people with "good" cholesterol have heart attacks. I heard of a study that possibly correlates high A1C to heart attacks more than anything previously reprted
Replying to "a part-time chicken engineer" on how to peel a hard-boiled egg. After years of peeling off dozens of little chips of egg shell, I discovered the perfect way a few years ago. Here's how: After boiling, drain the water and fill the pot with cold tap water. Leave the eggs in the water for 30 minutes or so to completely cool. Take an egg, use your knuckle and put a dozen or so cracks all over the whole egg. Here's the magic part - hold the egg vertically with the pointy end pointing up. Hold the egg between both of your palms and slightly squeeze the egg while rolling it between your hands. After rolling 10 - 12 times, grab the egg and use your thumbnail to get under the shell. Keep unpeeling it all the way. Rolling it between your palms loosens the shell from the egg. After a bit of practice, you'll become an expert at removing the entire shell in one piece, I've been doing it for years. Note of caution - If you put too much of a squeeze when rolling it, you'll split that sucker in half, so be gentle. There - we've lifted the cloak and now you know the magic. Go impress your friends.
Wondering if you can specify on your chart that the avocado oil you have listed is the refined version. I sell naturally refined avocado oil and have had smoke point testing done on multiple virgin avocado oils on the market. They all claim smoke points of 500 degrees or more - which is inaccurate at best - and I'm trying to correct the misinformation online about avocado oil's smoke point. I would appreciate you updating your chart as it is commonly referred to as a source when stating avocado oil smoke point. If you have any questions of would like to see the data from the smoke point analysis I'm more than happy to talk with you.
I am using Unrefined Seasame Oil and now I am planning to use Extra Virgin Olive Oil, especially for sauteing. I would like to know whether it is better to stick with Unrefined Seasame Oil or switch over to EVOO. Also, is it necessary to switch of the stove/reduce to minimum heat when we see smoke in the oil, especially during sauteing?
the 'extra virgin' olive oils very frequently have distinct flavors - the regular olive oils less distinct / more neutral.
I made a caprice salad for Christmas dinner and we had a mini-taste testing to determine which oil to use - plain ole' 'olive oil' won out over extra virgin and a couple other 'infused' oils - so be aware of flavor shifts.
if the pan is emitting billows of smoke, yes it's too hot regardless of which fat you're using.
Does the idea of Smoke Point also apply to baking or only to cooking over a high fire directly? Would a pizza drizzled with olive oil made under the broiler (around 500F) or in the oven (475F) also cause the olive oil to react the same way as it does when it's heated to a high temperature on the skillet?
even tho the oven temp is high - the dough or if just drizzled on - never gets to that temp.
I have read several conflicting opinions (I haven't found any actual research) on whether blending oils has any affect on the smoke point. For example, if I were to blend 10 parts avacado oil (very high smoke point) with 1 part flaxseed oil (very low smoke point) would I be able to cook with that oil above the smoke point of the lower of the two?
Any help on this matter would be appreciated. Especially in the form of a direction towards scientific research on this matter. Thanks!